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Old 01-15-2012, 01:15 PM   #1
BurninCB7
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Exclamation H23A1 good value?

I met a guy that has a prelude with the H23a1 in it. The car is wrecked in the front, and he said he would take $800 for it.

My question is: would it be a good value to get the car for the motor and transmission, or should I continue looking for an H22? Are there any benefits for the H23 vs H22? From the research I have done, it seems that the H23 is not quite as popular.

I want to keep in mind all the necessary parts needed for a swap. I was super stoked when I found the car, and a bit apprehensive when I saw it was the H23.

What do you guys think?
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Old 01-15-2012, 01:27 PM   #2
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Personally, I don't beat the piss out of my car and don't ever get them to 7000rpm. The H22A is more than capable of revving that high and needs to rev a bit higher than the F22/H23 to make its power. The H23A1 is going to be more of a low-end motor. It will produce torque earlier on and with modifications will have the potential to make much more torque. I will be building a motor soon around an H23A1 if I can't just find a deal on a H23A VTEC. Consider the qualities of both before you just decide on a H22A just because they're popular with everyone else. Go read the Swap FAQ. In fact, don't ask anything else in here until you know something about the swap for both of them. It will help you out a lot.
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Old 01-15-2012, 01:57 PM   #3
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The H23A1 makes 160hp, whereas the H22A makes 190-220hp (depending on the model you get.)

For $800, unless you know the motor to be in fantastic shape, I wouldn't bother.
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Old 01-15-2012, 02:01 PM   #4
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I agree with the idea of reading up on both motors. What exactly do you want out of your car/project is the question you should be asking yourself though. The H22A is the "bling" motor for most Accord guys. Most people just want that DOHC VTEC cylinder head glaring out at them when they pop the hood. In actuality, you can make power with anything. Some projects could be considered "Easier" than others, but that's just a matter of opinion. So evaluate your goals and then come to a decision.
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Old 01-15-2012, 02:14 PM   #5
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The H22A makes the most power in bone-stock form, though. No modification necessary. To make an additional 40hp from an H23A1, you'd have to do a decent amount of work. My 20 year old car is on par with modern cars in terms of performance, and it's still "stock" in terms of modifications... other than a different bone-stock engine
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Old 01-15-2012, 02:20 PM   #6
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Deev makes an excellent point. However don't get hung up too much on what makes the most horsepower out the gate(with the exception of JSeries). Depending on your goals of N/A or Turbo, it can cost a heck of a lot more money to get to that next milestone of 250.
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Old 01-15-2012, 02:24 PM   #7
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It depends on what you want from the motor. Turbo... there's really no reason to swap. All-out N/A power... almost any motor can be built up to 250whp or so... and beyond that, any motor that's commonly swapped into a CB7 will reach the limits of streetability around there. If the motor is going to stay near stock (bolt-on mods only), then the H22A will be the most power for the least amount of effort, while retaining the greatest level of driveability.

However, due to the slightly greater torque (contrary to popular belief, .1L does not make that much of a difference), and the lower powerband, people have found that the H23A1 tends to perform quite well in a CB7... nearly as well as the H22A, despite the significant difference in peak horsepower.
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Old 01-23-2012, 01:52 PM   #8
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Sorry for the late reply, guys. I was not subscribed to my own thread for some reason..

Anyways, I want to do an N/A build with just basic bolt-ons. I am not looking for top end power, I just want something that will be a dependable daily driver capable of pushing you back in your seat when necessary.

I have indeed read up on both motors, I just wanted to see what you guys thought about it. I like that the H23 is comparable to the F22, and to be honest, I would be content with about 60 more hp from my F, but the amount of currency it would take to get there (the way I want to do it) is more than buying a stock H motor.

No salvage yards around here have H22/H23 motors, so I really have nothing to compare prices to except for internet retailers. If I can get the guy to come down to about $500, the CB will get a heart transplant. I have already priced a full gasket kit, timing belts and water pump. If everything is mechanically sound and goes the way I want it too, I should have this (my 3rd swap) done for around $1000.
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Old 01-23-2012, 02:04 PM   #9
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Just be careful when buying a cheap motor... sometimes it ends up being more costly then you expect. You could be stuck with serious repairs, missing parts, or an expensive paperweight.

Even though it costs a bit more than most, an H22A from hmotorsonline.com is going to be reliable. Change the timing belt and water pump, drop it in, and you have 165whp reliably. Pick up some inexpensive cams (Type S, or any reputable "stage 1") and snag a P28 to chip and tune, and you'll be churning out 180-190whp. That'd be the direction I would take, personally. It's the most power you'll get with the least amount of mods, meaning the engine will still be as driveable and reliable as stock. Making that much power with an H23 will require more extensive (and expensive) mods.
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Old 01-23-2012, 06:03 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deevergote View Post
Even though it costs a bit more than most, an H22A from hmotorsonline.com is going to be reliable. Change the timing belt and water pump, drop it in, and you have 165whp reliably...
...Making that much power with an H23 will require more extensive (and expensive) mods.

That is the conclusion I came to while doing research.
I don't mind the lower numbers that the 2.3 puts out, but I do not want to spend a bunch of money on parts that make little difference. It seems that the H22 is more horses for your dollar. Value I guess you would call it...

I am also concerned about the condition of the used motor, as it is in a prelude that is primer-ed with 19" wheels. I could see a header and intake... so we know that it has had some time put into it, and almost certainly, some hard driving time.



I guess I'll keep looking. It would be nice to find something locally, I want a donor car.
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Old 01-23-2012, 06:10 PM   #11
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JDM engines from a reputable importer will have fewer miles on them. USDM engines found in cars that are nearly 20 years old will most likely have high miles, and they are likely to have been pounded on by some kid that didn't understand how to care for a vehicle (that primered Prelude DEFINITELY makes me think that!)

The H's FRM sleeves are sensitive, and any hardcore abuse such as infrequent oil changes, high RPMs when cold, low-quality oil, poor intake filtration (resulting in grit in the oil), can cause major damage. That damage will manifest in the form of burning oil (among other things.)
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Old 01-24-2012, 11:17 AM   #12
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I would not mind having a USDM motor, as I plan on doing a rebuild to whatever I get. I just feel like there is a LOT of hype around JDM parts. Half the time something says JDM, it is hardly ever a real thing.
I am not contesting what you said about the JDM motors having lower mileage, but I do not think that makes it a better motor for me. Reliable... sure. But if I were to get a reliable motor, it would take away all the fun and learning experience I get every time I tear my car apart.

How does one gauge whether or not a motor should be re-sleeved?

I have also heard someone say that the f22 has FRM sleeves.... is that true? I thought they were some sort of composite iron/ fiber reinforced metal...
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Old 01-24-2012, 02:46 PM   #13
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please, no more usage of the word "bone stock", i hate that word. Just call it stock,
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Old 01-24-2012, 07:12 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BurninCB7 View Post
I would not mind having a USDM motor, as I plan on doing a rebuild to whatever I get. I just feel like there is a LOT of hype around JDM parts. Half the time something says JDM, it is hardly ever a real thing.
I am not contesting what you said about the JDM motors having lower mileage, but I do not think that makes it a better motor for me. Reliable... sure. But if I were to get a reliable motor, it would take away all the fun and learning experience I get every time I tear my car apart.

How does one gauge whether or not a motor should be re-sleeved?

I have also heard someone say that the f22 has FRM sleeves.... is that true? I thought they were some sort of composite iron/ fiber reinforced metal...
:sigh:... you missed my point entirely about the JDM motor.
If you buy a JDM motor from a reputable source, such as hmotorsonline.com, you are getting a motor with the mileage they claim. You are getting a JDM motor that was pulled from a Prelude around 40,000 miles, because in Japan, it often becomes cheaper to buy a new car than to keep your car on the road once it reaches that age. JDM motors themselves are no better in terms of quality than USDM motors... however, in terms of an H22A, the USDM examples will be much more likely to have been subject to heavy abuse over the past 10-20 years. Sure, there's something to be said about a motor that's been used regularly over the years, as opposed to one that's been sitting (though a quality engine reseller will store it properly, not leave it wallowing it its own sludge.) Still, with FRM sleeves, you don't want the sleeves to be damaged. They are VERY difficult to repair... if not impossible. They are very strong, very light, and very delicate. You may rebuild a dog of a USDM motor, and it may still burn oil worse than a rotary.

Re-sleeving needs to be done when the sleeves are damaged beyond repair, when your build calls for stronger sleeves, or if you want to use aftermarket pistons in an FRM-sleeved block that aren't compatible with FRM sleeves (which would be about 95% of the pistons on the market...)

FRM sleeves are a composite. No F series has FRM sleeves, other than the S2000's F20C... and that's just an F series in name only, as it has very little in common with any other F series. It's much more similar to a K series.
Other engines with FRM sleeves are the 3rd gen Prelude's B21A, and the NSX's C32B.


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please, no more usage of the word "bone stock", i hate that word. Just call it stock,
12 posts and you're already telling people how to post on this site... I like you.
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Old 01-25-2012, 11:57 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deevergote View Post
:
If you buy a JDM motor from a reputable source, such as hmotorsonline.com, you are getting a motor with the mileage they claim. You are getting a JDM motor that was pulled from a Prelude around 40,000 miles, because in Japan, it often becomes cheaper to buy a new car than to keep your car on the road once it reaches that age. JDM motors themselves are no better in terms of quality than USDM motors... however, in terms of an H22A, the USDM examples will be much more likely to have been subject to heavy abuse over the past 10-20 years.
I have always wondered why the motors from Japan are such low mileage. Your statement makes complete sense to me now.

The Japanese market is sooo different. I have already sank enough money into my car to buy a new one, but that wouldn't be any fun!

Thank you for your input, everyone. I have a better understanding of what my goals are and the future of the CB.
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Old 01-25-2012, 12:24 PM   #16
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What he means by "becomes cheaper" is that there are regularly accumulating fees associated with owning an older car. Here is an excerpt from another online source:

There is no such law "requiring" engine replacement at a certain mileage. That is a urban myth propagated by importers and car owners who simply don't know or understand the situation in Japan. The high taxes (annually assessed), insurance premiums, gas costs, and especially the safety inspection/registration (occurs biennial) combine to keep turnover of vehicles high.

For example, the Safety inspection for your typical car (say Camry/Accord type) can typically cost $2,000....each time! New vehicles have a 3 year grace period before they are required to submit for the Safety Inspection. In other words, for a 10 year old car, you will have already paid over $8,000, in just Safety Inspection fees! Don't forget, gas over in Japan is also typically four times the cost of here in the U.S. Mileage is kept low on the vehicles as EVERYONE (unless your fabulously rich and patient) uses alternative transportation to get around. Most folks use the trains for local and medium distance traveling/commuting.

Far distances are taken by airplane and local transportation done by either bicycle or bus. In that society, your car tends to be a status symbol more than anything else. I hope this sheds a little more light for you!

Benne, you'll do quite nicely here.
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Old 01-25-2012, 01:40 PM   #17
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This is all very interesting, and has sparked my curiosity. The past few hours have been filled with wikipedia references and translated Japanese websites.

I am very happy we don't have vehicle inspections in Arkansas.

Thanks for the info Jarrett!
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