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F22A N/A Build

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    #16




    Bisi's motor built for the Castrol Syntec Top Shop Challenge. 360whp


    Originally posted by Maple50175
    Oh here we go again. Maples other half.

    Comment


      #17
      ITBs are a terrible idea for a daily driver. Usually, they are run with no filter element as well... which would suck in dirt and debris very easily, destroying the motor.






      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by Tnwagn View Post
        I would recommend porting at least the exhaust side of the head if you are going to the level with all the other headwork. The Megan header is going to be a huge bottleneck, as will your entire exhaust system most likely.

        It will be expensive, you have to know that going in from day 1. Before you start buying parts you should have your entire build planned out, otherwise you will fall in the trap that deev mentions about buy stuff over and over.

        http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/forumdisplay.php?f=61

        There are plenty of F22A N/A builds in the NA section. I'd suggest finding a setup that is putting out numbers that you are interested in achieving, see what work they've done, and base your build on their findings.
        Why would you port any ports? The exhaust ports are already massive and to add on to that, honda engineers did an amazing job already in designing their heads to operate within the rev limit that they set. A mild cam will carry the powerband right to redline nicely. Porting the head does to things, either wrecks it completely or moves your powerband higher than intended on an f.

        OP I am not trying to discourage just making sure that people understand that bisi's f's are a lot more than just forged pistons and rods with a balanced bottom end. His entire bottom end is custom engineered and built buy him to rev to like 13000rpms. Again not trying to discourage just making sure you know.


        OP have you fully considered an H swap? You start with a 200 horsepower 159 lbs/ft of torque with good mileage and street manners for cruising. No reason with some tasteful modifications that you couldn't turn that into a 250 horsepower n/a. Just a thought. If you are going to turbo it then I would just stay stick with your f. It is a solid, robust engine, it's only issue is it's ginormous stroke which makes high power n/a's a little more difficult than an h. Again not trying to discourage, if that is what you want go get er done, Just making sure you understand all your options and the pros and cons.

        And don't bother with itb's unless your are planning pretty much a straight race car.

        Comment


          #19
          The F22A's exhaust ports are actually fairly restrictive in stock form.






          Comment


            #20
            1. I dont want to hear "get a Bisi header, everything else is a waste of time." Not everyone can afford one, a basic 4-2-1 header is a good start.

            2. I would start with an aftermarket cam. I have had good results with my Bullfrog/Gude cam. Its comparable to a Bisi stg 2, but given the choice again, I would get the Bisi. I picked up my cam because a local was offering a good deal on the cam.

            3. Upgrade to a H23 intake manifold to improve your airflow.

            Your other bolt-on mods you listed is a great start, the 2 mods I listed are terrific bolt-ons that are relativity inexpensive, and will give you a great boost in power.

            My mods are:
            H23 Intake manifold - $50
            Used DC Sports header - $70
            Gude Cam - $100
            2.5" Exhaust - $160
            K+N Filter - $35

            With these mods I should be at around 155 - 170 whp, once tuned. I have to dnyo the setup to find out for sure, but others with similar mods are putting down this amount of power, for no where near the amount of cash for a H22 swap.
            1992 Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser

            1986 Chevrolet C10|5.3L|SM465|Shortbed|Custom Deluxe

            1983 Malibu Wagon|TPI 305|T5 5 speed|3.73 non-posi


            1992 Accord Wagon (RETIRED)

            Comment


              #21
              Far out man that is wicked, not too crazy for the top mount but I dont know what the difference is performance wise. I agree, not a daily. Wouldn't even be considered a sleeper to me, sucker would scream.

              That is the f22b?

              .peace.

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by Accrdwgnguy View Post
                1. I dont want to hear "get a Bisi header, everything else is a waste of time." Not everyone can afford one, a basic 4-2-1 header is a good start.
                Most basic (cheap) 4-2-1 headers offer very little in the way of gains. That Megan header he has might be getting him 2hp over stock...

                Honestly, the Bisimoto header really is the only viable performance option for us. Other headers are generic designs, very similar to the stock manifolds, and have very restrictive collectors. Kamikaze makes a header that is fairly cheap in comparison to the Bisimoto piece, but the quality is absolute garbage. It does offer decent gains compared to any other non-bisi header, however.
                ESP could probably be convinced to make F22A headers, if enough interest were shown. Their H22 header makes decent power, and sells for under $500. I bet they could do the same for the F22A. It wouldn't make Bisimoto numbers, but it'd be likely to offer half the power for half the price.

                Originally posted by Chase d cb7 View Post
                Far out man that is wicked, not too crazy for the top mount but I dont know what the difference is performance wise. I agree, not a daily. Wouldn't even be considered a sleeper to me, sucker would scream.

                That is the f22b?

                .peace.
                What do you mean "top mount"... That is what ITBs look like on an F22A. Where else are you going to put them?

                And that is an F22A... well, mostly.






                Comment


                  #23
                  If you can do some welding, you can open up the collector of any "cheap" header.

                  I just tired of seeing every person that asks about their F22A, being told that the $1200 header is their only option. Kinda discouraging if you are just getting into the hobby, plus if you are buying one of these cars you may not have those kind of funds. A 4-2-1 header is definitely an upgrade over a stock A1 manifold.

                  Also all my mods are DD friendly, I have stock drive ability for a 60 mile round trip commute everyday, and it certainly gets rowdy when I get into the go pedal.
                  1992 Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser

                  1986 Chevrolet C10|5.3L|SM465|Shortbed|Custom Deluxe

                  1983 Malibu Wagon|TPI 305|T5 5 speed|3.73 non-posi


                  1992 Accord Wagon (RETIRED)

                  Comment


                    #24
                    i dont see it as dicouraging. i see it as telling someone that they could spend their money elsewhere to get more of a gain. they could spend 120 on a megan header or 120 on a delta cam regrind. which would be the better choice? id take the cam
                    if you can weld you can open up the collector but most quality collectors are going to run about 120 themselves. check prices on burns stainless for 2.5". 120 for a cheap header, 120 for a bigger collector, and if they cant weld then they have to pay for a welder. if esp makes a header for the f22 and keeps it around 400 or so then youd be spending about the same money. right now bisimoto is just the only one to offer a real header. everything else is just a low quality knockoff of the dc sports design. even the dc header offers little power. the price is all in the carb sticker

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by deevergote View Post
                      ITBs are a terrible idea for a daily driver. Usually, they are run with no filter element as well... which would suck in dirt and debris very easily, destroying the motor.
                      That may be true... but I need a new set of underwear after seeing the Bisi F22 with ITBs....
                      I'm subbing here cuz it's givin me a lot of ideas for my f22a. more like dreams that can only be realized through saving or getting a better job once I get the blue bird on the road.

                      As far as opening ports, how much? If you're going to open the ports and open up the header you'd need an idea what dimensions you want, unless you're just trying to imitate the Bisi(copy/paste). As far as welding, if you can do it urself sweet, if not how much would it cost to have done in comparison. I see 240 for header and collector. Would it really come close to 1200 after paying a welder? That seems a little insane to me.

                      maybe the esp option, if it existed, would come close. but if It's really going to cost that much to pay a welder, I need to take a welding course! that & an auto body course. I wanna be able to fabricate & paint everything myself, plus make my living working on cars. One of my dreams. Then work towards "ASE everything." I'd be like the young Yeshua Ha-Mashiach if he was a mechanic/welder/painter/machinist instead of a carpenter.

                      F22A makes me !
                      Last edited by blu35p4rr0w; 02-03-2011, 01:25 AM.


                      The Blue Bomber

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by Sabes View Post
                        Why would you port any ports? The exhaust ports are already massive and to add on to that, honda engineers did an amazing job already in designing their heads to operate within the rev limit that they set. A mild cam will carry the powerband right to redline nicely. Porting the head does to things, either wrecks it completely or moves your powerband higher than intended on an f.

                        OP I am not trying to discourage just making sure that people understand that bisi's f's are a lot more than just forged pistons and rods with a balanced bottom end. His entire bottom end is custom engineered and built buy him to rev to like 13000rpms. Again not trying to discourage just making sure you know.


                        OP have you fully considered an H swap? You start with a 200 horsepower 159 lbs/ft of torque with good mileage and street manners for cruising. No reason with some tasteful modifications that you couldn't turn that into a 250 horsepower n/a. Just a thought. If you are going to turbo it then I would just stay stick with your f. It is a solid, robust engine, it's only issue is it's ginormous stroke which makes high power n/a's a little more difficult than an h. Again not trying to discourage, if that is what you want go get er done, Just making sure you understand all your options and the pros and cons.

                        And don't bother with itb's unless your are planning pretty much a straight race car.
                        I have considered and still am considering an H swap. I have a lot of time to think about this and this build is just an idea. I'm mainly looking for peoples opinions so I can find the best build possible for what Im aiming to do.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by Accrdwgnguy View Post
                          1. I dont want to hear "get a Bisi header, everything else is a waste of time." Not everyone can afford one, a basic 4-2-1 header is a good start.

                          2. I would start with an aftermarket cam. I have had good results with my Bullfrog/Gude cam. Its comparable to a Bisi stg 2, but given the choice again, I would get the Bisi. I picked up my cam because a local was offering a good deal on the cam.

                          3. Upgrade to a H23 intake manifold to improve your airflow.

                          Your other bolt-on mods you listed is a great start, the 2 mods I listed are terrific bolt-ons that are relativity inexpensive, and will give you a great boost in power.

                          My mods are:
                          H23 Intake manifold - $50
                          Used DC Sports header - $70
                          Gude Cam - $100
                          2.5" Exhaust - $160
                          K+N Filter - $35

                          With these mods I should be at around 155 - 170 whp, once tuned. I have to dnyo the setup to find out for sure, but others with similar mods are putting down this amount of power, for no where near the amount of cash for a H22 swap.
                          My plan is to go with the bisi cam first out of all the work I want to do. As for H23 intake manifold, my plan is to get the bisi intake manifold which is better than the H23 manifold.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by blu35p4rr0w View Post
                            That may be true... but I need a new set of underwear after seeing the Bisi F22 with ITBs....
                            I'm subbing here cuz it's givin me a lot of ideas for my f22a. more like dreams that can only be realized through saving or getting a better job once I get the blue bird on the road.

                            As far as opening ports, how much? If you're going to open the ports and open up the header you'd need an idea what dimensions you want, unless you're just trying to imitate the Bisi(copy/paste). As far as welding, if you can do it urself sweet, if not how much would it cost to have done in comparison. I see 240 for header and collector. Would it really come close to 1200 after paying a welder? That seems a little insane to me.

                            maybe the esp option, if it existed, would come close. but if It's really going to cost that much to pay a welder, I need to take a welding course! that & an auto body course. I wanna be able to fabricate & paint everything myself, plus make my living working on cars. One of my dreams. Then work towards "ASE everything." I'd be like the young Yeshua Ha-Mashiach if he was a mechanic/welder/painter/machinist instead of a carpenter.

                            F22A makes me !
                            The "almost the same price" was in regards to the suggested ESP header, not the Bisimoto header. The gains from welding a 2.5" collector on a cheap header wouldn't come anywhere near the Bisimoto header's gains. There's no sense even trying to compare.
                            I personally paid $100 to have my traction bar tig-welded in place. It took the guy about an hour to do. That was merely welding that one part to my car... not attempting to fabricate a leak-free modified header. I could easily see a talented welder asking for $200. It is, however, impossible to say... because I cannot speak for all the professional welders out there. There might be someone that would do it well, and do it for a case of their favorite beer. Still, it seems like an awful lot of money and effort to put into what is still an inferior product.

                            As for the exhaust ports, unless you know exactly what you're doing, you're better off going to an experienced head porter. Someone that has worked on the F22A, and tell him what you want. With his experience, and hopefully the assistance of a flow bench, he can modify the head according to your needs.
                            Please tell me where you can cut and paste Bisi's exact head porting specs...






                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by capo_status View Post
                              My plan is to go with the bisi cam first out of all the work I want to do. As for H23 intake manifold, my plan is to get the bisi intake manifold which is better than the H23 manifold.
                              what's the bisi intake manifold?

                              Originally posted by deevergote View Post
                              As for the exhaust ports, unless you know exactly what you're doing, you're better off going to an experienced head porter. Someone that has worked on the F22A, and tell him what you want. With his experience, and hopefully the assistance of a flow bench, he can modify the head according to your needs.
                              Please tell me where you can cut and paste Bisi's exact head porting specs...
                              how bad of an idea is it taking my head to a local guy here with a flowbench and everything but he's only ever worked on domestics or tractor engines? lol.
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                                #30
                                - set a specific power goal and how much you have to spend
                                - decide how much of the labor you will be doing yourself

                                then at least you could come up with a parts list that you need for your power goal. plus people will be able to tell you if your budget is realistic.

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