1992 Accord EX No Crank No Start

[Rat]

I'm about to buy a 1992 Accord EX, mostly stock. I was told that the lady who owns it was driving and the engine acted as if it's out of gas and then just shut off. No the engine doesn't even crank. I was told that the last time it had a fully charged battery and tried to start it sounded like the starter was cranking really fast but nothing would happen. Only 100 miles before this the clutch was replaced and the transmission was rebuilt or replaced. Any ideas?

[Fleetw00d]

Nothing would happen as in the starting just spinning by itself, or the engine rotating, but not firing? You might try rotating it by hand first via the crank pulley bolt and looking in the oil fill hole in the valve cover to make sure the cam is rotating (checking for broken timing belt). If that is ok, jump it to see if the starter is spinning without engaging, or if the engine rotates, but doesn't fire. Before attempting a start, check that the fuel pump runs during the two seconds that the "check engine" light is on after turning the key to the "on" position (not start). The main relay for power the fuel pump is the most common problem for a no fuel situation.

[Rat]

Nothing would happen as in the engine wouldn't fire. Once I get the car I will be checking for a bad timing belt. If I look in through the oil filler cap and do not see movement is it fair to assume the belt is broken?

[Fleetw00d]

Yes, if you don't see the rocker arms moving (or you can pull the distributor cap and see if the rotor is moving), then the timing belt is broken. If this is the case, continued cranking of the engine may bend whatever valves happen to be open (if not bent already). If the engine cranks fast without variation in speed caused by each compression stroke, then there are likely bent valves. Do you have a compression tester?

[Rat]

I do not. I won't even have the car until the 8th of next month so I'm just working up theories right now. Would a timing belt failing while driving cause the car to stall and just die? In my experience that is usually a power issue. But then again I've never had a timing belt fail on me while driving.

[F22Chris]

A timing belt failure while driving usually results in bent valves. Cranking fast is a symptom of belt failure. It will for sure result in all power lost because the damn valves won’t open. The camshaft is belt driven.

[Rat]

Makes sense. Assuming it is a bad belt, how can I check for bent valves without removing the head?

[Fleetw00d]

With no disassembly at all, or just not removing the head? If you remove the valve cover and the upper timing cover, you can confirm if the belt is broken. If you position the crank 90 degrees from TDC, all the pistons will be away from the valves. If you can, rotate the cam to the position where the word "UP" on the cam pulley is up (perpendicular to the surface of the head). Check the valve clearances. Then rotate the cam counterclockwise (looking from the driver side of the car) 90 degrees, check valve clearance for cylinder 3, another 90 degrees for cylinder 4, another 90 degrees for cylinder 2. If any of the clearances are well above the 0.010 for intake or 0.012 for exhaust, then it is likely that the valve is bent and preventing it from coming all the way back up.

If you have the hose section from a compression tester that screws into the spark plug holes, you can position the cam as described above and pressurize each cylinder - if you hear a big leak into the intake or exhaust manifold, you've likely got a bent valve.

[Rat]

Ok, I can definitely do that. But I checked out the car again today and the below video is what I found when trying to start.

https://youtu.be/2Yvt9L-H0Ww

After this I tested for spark and there was no spark. So I pulled the cap off the distributior and it was not spinning at all. What do you make of this?

[Fleetw00d]

The rocker moving indicates at least that end of the the camshaft is turning, so the timing belt is intact. Says nothing about if it is timed correctly. Not sure I've ever heard of a camshaft breaking somewhere in the middle. If someone was screwing with it and removed the distributor, they may have left out the coupling between the cam and the distributor shaft. Make a score mark or use a marker to mark the position of the distributor relative to the head, then remove the distributor and see if the coupling is there. Crank the engine while you're at it to make sure that end of the cam is rotating.

[Rat]

Once I get the car I will check. It's great to see that hopefully the belt is ok. I'll check the timing with my light when I can. This brings me to the next question, because it's becoming fair to assume the distributor is done for, what brand should I buy? In my current car I'm running what O'Reillys had in stock.

[HappyGilmore]

This sounds like the main relay. My black CB did exactly that. It's located under the dash try tapping it a few times and cranking it over. Given that you mentioned it was acting like it was out of gas, that would have been the first thing I would have checked. Try that before tearing it up too much only to find out it was the main relay and nothing else.

[Rat]

It's the dam camshaft. It's broken into two pieces. It still controls cylinder 1 but that's it. Never seen this happen before. Should I pick one up from my local yard and install it just to see what happens or should I call it?

[Fleetw00d]

Did you take the valve cover off to confirm that? I'm not sure how that would happen. There are likely bent valves in at least one of the other cylinders. Is the rest of the car worth having a head redone (if there are bent valves, you'll have to replace those, might as well replace valve seals and have valve job done). How many miles on it? Might need a whole head depending on what caused the cam to break (cylinder head at JY would be $50+) and where it broke. If you're cheap and lucky, you could find a good used head and just put it on. This all assumes that the bottom end is still usable. If you had a bore scope, you could look into the cylinders to at least check the top of the pistons.

[Rat]

https://youtu.be/CWeXBGZl-40

The engine has 170000. The body is in great shape, the paint is ok, needs some elbow grease but that's it. New clutch and recently had the transmission replaced. I want to get this one running but I think it might end up being a parts car.