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Old 06-06-2011, 12:55 AM   #1
Shadow91
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Car wont start after timing belt..

So me and 91kid have been helping my buddy do the timing belt on his car and after a lot of hate and discontent we got it completely done along with the tube seals and cam shaft seal. I double checked the timing marks a dozen times before we reassembled and everything was lined perfectly. The car just turns over and over and wont start.. if you gas it it will get like one put and fire like one cylinder. otherwise it just spins... What could cause the issue? we have spark and can smell fuel? could i be missing a ground or anything like that?
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Old 06-06-2011, 01:19 AM   #2
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did you take off your dizzy cap and make sure its pointing at cylinder#1 when its at TDC? sounds like it isnt hitting at the right time.
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Old 06-06-2011, 01:26 AM   #3
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You have spark you say? Check all of them by grounding the side of the plug and crank.

Check that you put the dizzy back. If your not sure turn it 180 degrees. OR put it to TDC on cylinder 1, and then take off the ignition cap and make sure the rotor is facing cylinder 1.

Check the thermostat ground.

Check codes.
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Old 06-06-2011, 04:41 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by accordztech View Post
Check that you put the dizzy back. If your not sure turn it 180 degrees.
The distributor will only fit properly one way as the slots are slightly offset. You can get it to jam in in the incorrect way but as soon as you start the car, it will rip the teeth right off the distributor.

Funny enough, I was just helping a friend today that changed the distributor because the ignitor died in his 92. He was bitching about how the teeth broke off on the new one and how made in China was bad and sure enough, he didn't line up the slot in the proper way lol.

Anyways, if it's getting spark and fuel, it may be firing at the wrong time. At TDC, if you line up the line on the distributor teeth (the one that meshes with the cam) with the line on the distributor housing, the distributor should slide right in and bolt up. If you changed the cap, make sure the wires are in the correct order and correct plug.

Did you have the spark plugs out when rotating the crank to line stuff up?
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Old 06-06-2011, 05:45 AM   #5
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Considering you said you checked the timing multiple times.

Sounds to me like you put your spark plug wires in the wrong spots.
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Old 06-07-2011, 12:57 AM   #6
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so we got the engine running.. the crank was off 180* and after that it fired right up.. now the engine bogs.. i dont understand why, it has new plugs, cap, rotor, wires.. the car seems to almost miss while its idling and it just doesnt reev have it did before..
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Old 06-07-2011, 01:43 AM   #7
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Haha i forgot about that. But if you have it 180 degrees off...how did you do that? You turned the motor while the belt was off?

If it still feels off pull the can cover then set everything TDC. Mainly the crank. Check the can to see if it is lined up (don't assume). Then take off the distributor cap and see if the rotor is pointing to spark plug #1(assuming you timed it to cylinder 1).
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Old 06-07-2011, 03:08 AM   #8
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if was 180 and ur cranked it over could u have bent a valve???
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Old 06-07-2011, 03:40 AM   #9
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I'd have to be a little skeptical since you mentioned you guys checked many times and everything was perfect, then it turned out the crank was off by 180? If it's bogging, my guess is you are still off by a tooth.

I'd honestly start from scratch. With the spark plugs out, redo it all. The cam should have the UP mark facing 12, and the lines at 3 and 9 o'clock lining up with the surface of the cylinder head. The crank cog has a dot or arrow, make sure that is lined up with the arrow on the oil pump and the mark on the flywheel or driveplate has the pointer at the white TDC mark.

With everything lined up and put together, with the engine at tdc, put the distributor in with the lines on the two teeth gear lined up with the lines on the distributor housing. Set the distributor so the bolts are somewhere in the middle of the slots as a starting point (won't be too advanced or too retarded). #1cyl spark plug wire should be at the A mark on the distributor cap (usually 2 o'clock), then #3 at 5 o'clock, #4 at 8 o'clock, and #2 at 11 o'clock.
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Old 06-07-2011, 05:53 AM   #10
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Wow, I'm skeptical too. You swore timing was correct, yet it's still off.

Do you hear what sounds like exhaust in your intake manifold?

I wouldn't be surprised.
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Old 06-09-2011, 10:10 AM   #11
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How likely is it that there is motor damage from trying to start the motor with the crank 180 off? We are going to re-due everything from the start but now we are afraid that the motor has head damage.. We would have heard something though, wouldn't we?
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Old 06-09-2011, 10:37 AM   #12
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same here happen to me....and i bent 4 values..cost me about 200 to get the head redone...good luck
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Old 06-09-2011, 11:41 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow91 View Post
so we got the engine running.. the crank was off 180* and after that it fired right up.. now the engine bogs.. i dont understand why, it has new plugs, cap, rotor, wires.. the car seems to almost miss while its idling and it just doesnt reev have it did before..
You are either slightly off on your engine timing, maybe by one or even two teeth as measured at the crankshaft timing pulley when the camshaft is at dead north,

OR you are off on the ignition timing because of the distributor replacement.
Get a timing gun and fire it at the flywheel to verify. , then see if you are able to adjust at the distributor.

If not, you are off mechanically and need to go back in and adjust at the pulleys again.
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Old 06-09-2011, 11:45 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow91 View Post
How likely is it that there is motor damage from trying to start the motor with the crank 180 off? We are going to re-due everything from the start but now we are afraid that the motor has head damage.. We would have heard something though, wouldn't we?
I think it is possible that you have valve damage but I don't have an immaculate picture of every part of the piston cycle in the engine sitting in my head. Do a compression test to see OR carefully plot out the engine piston sequence and see if there are conflicts with the crank off 180 deg.

EDIT: Come to think of it, having it off 180 deg would cause valve/piston conflicts, yes.

do a compression test.

Last edited by batever; 06-09-2011 at 11:47 AM.
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Old 06-09-2011, 11:49 AM   #15
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Haha i forgot about that. But if you have it 180 degrees off...how did you do that? You turned the motor while the belt was off?
probably somehow confused TDC on the exhaust with TDC on the intake cycle.
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Old 06-09-2011, 12:55 PM   #16
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EDIT OF PREVIOUS COMMENT (UP ABOUT 5 COMMENTS): Come to think of it, I don't see how having the crankshaft off 180 deg would cause valve/piston conflicts. What would happen is exhaust valves instead of intake valves would open when intake valves were supposed to open, but there should be no mechanical impacts. If you were off 15 degrees or 20 degrees, you would have impacts, but not exact 180 degrees (or, I think, off the top of my head, exact 90 degrees, but I'm less sure of that).

just reset everything right and you should be fine.

Last edited by batever; 06-09-2011 at 12:59 PM.
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Old 06-11-2011, 09:13 AM   #17
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So is there anyway to check for a belt valve? Or what's the best way fir checking? Gonna go at it again today and just want to check everything I can. And would anyone mind telling me each and everything I should line up. The help is very much appreciated. Thank you.
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Old 06-11-2011, 09:29 AM   #18
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do you hear exhaust in you intake manifold?, Do a compression test to see if they are bent, it takes 15 minutes.
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Old 06-11-2011, 10:01 AM   #19
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I would deff. Do a compression test!
Can you hear any valves tapping? I had a friend break a valve( snapped off) due to being off timing cost him 300 to get fixed!
He kept trying to get it started and redoing timing while the valve was smacking around, the day we took off the head to check it was welded to the piston and the valve seat was damaged. luckily not to bad Where the machine shop couldnt fix.
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Old 06-11-2011, 10:01 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batever View Post
EDIT OF PREVIOUS COMMENT (UP ABOUT 5 COMMENTS): Come to think of it, I don't see how having the crankshaft off 180 deg would cause valve/piston conflicts. What would happen is exhaust valves instead of intake valves would open when intake valves were supposed to open, but there should be no mechanical impacts. If you were off 15 degrees or 20 degrees, you would have impacts, but not exact 180 degrees (or, I think, off the top of my head, exact 90 degrees, but I'm less sure of that).

just reset everything right and you should be fine.
Second.

180 off would not cause mechanical impact.

Reset the timing completely, and don't go by the arrow/mark on the harmonic balancer. Those marks are only for reference, as you could mistake it by a fraction of an inch and make your timing off a tooth. Place a long screwdriver inside spark plug hole number one and find the true TDC (and you won't be 180 off if the timing mark is near the arrow).

As stated before, the marks on the back of the cam gear will be level with the edge of the head, not the horizontal plane of the earth, so make sure that is set correctly. Also, make sure that when you are installing the timing belt that you run the left side first, then feed it around the water pump etc. This will set the connection between the cam and the crank, keeping sure that neither jumps.

Next order of business: distributor and ignition timing. Simply moving your distributor WILL NOT CHANGE YOUR TIMING. The ECU automatically stabilizes the ignition timing if it senses it is off. This is why in order to change our ignition timing we must jump the two-wire harness behind the glove box. It's not your ignition timing, don't worry about it.

Last order of business (and I can't believe no one caught this)... You said you changed the lower tube o-rings? This requires removal of the rocker arm assembly. You have to redo your valve lash every time it is removed. Being a tooth off in timing will make the car run "funny," but not make it sputter and bog; valve lash being way off will. (Unless it's two or three teeth off, in which case you will probably have bigger fish to fry.)

All of this, of course, in consideration with the comments above regarding a compression test, just to rule out any head damage.

Good luck! And keep us updated. Maybe even post a few pictures of the timing you are setting it to.
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