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Old 12-25-2016, 10:17 PM   #1
lbus9168
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Cb9 5 stud swap - don't flame already researched!

Hey guys.

Saving up parts right now for my wagon. It has rear discs so I'd assume it is the equivelant of the "ex" wagon in the u.s.

2 questions.

1st. Rear 5 stud. I should be able to use a 5th gen prelude hub with itr discs, from what I've seen the spindle nut needs to be shallower, is that correct?

2nd. (Most important question). I've seen that the oddsey/prelude hub is slightly too large for the accord bearing, does anyone have an accurate (preferably metric) measurement to show the difference between hubs, as I have a mechanical engineer friend who can machine the hub for me, so if anyone could help with those measurements (so I can make sure its worthwhile) before proceeding let me know.

I'll be using the OEM wagon caliper (same as prelude) and prelude front discs, I'll look to confirm that the caliper bracket is 23 or 25t but it should work.
Thanks guys.
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Old 12-26-2016, 06:11 PM   #2
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For the rear spindle nut, a shallower nut would allow the nut to be staked if it is a nut that has that provision. The way that the Prelude nut seats, the staking "lip" doesn't seat far enough onto the shaft to allow it to be staked in place.
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Old 12-26-2016, 06:14 PM   #3
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Okay, so i think i have three options from that point of view. i can try and source a different nut,

i could try and machine the mounting surface slightly to allow the oem nut to be used,

or i could drill a hole through the Thread where it would get staked and use a heavy duty lock pin.

I think option no.3 looks best.
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Old 12-27-2016, 12:25 AM   #4
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The rear wagon knuckles have a spindle shaft that is too great in diameter for use with the '97-'01 Prelude rear hub/bearing. You would need to swap rear knuckles with a rear knuckle from a coupe/sedan. However, since the wagon adopted the later standard for control arm spacing, you would need the rear knuckle from a '94-'97 coupe/sedan. As you are trying to retain the rear disc setup, these knuckles would have to be rear-disc compatible as well.

For the front, you're going to need a different knuckle. You could have the correct Prelude or Odyssey hub turned on a lathe, but that doesn't account for any difference in depth that may be there. I'm not saying there is, as I don't know. It would be much more cost-effective for you to just go grab a pair of front knuckles from a '98-'02 CG Accord V6. Here's one that someone is wrecking in Sydney, which looks to be a 3 hour drive for you. That's just the first one I found, but I didn't see anything in the ACT.

Your current calipers will bolt right up to this knuckle and fit directly over the rotor. No changes to anything needed at all. It's the same lower ball joint, so that fits right into your lower control arm, as well as the outer tie rod end and upper control arm. It just works.
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Old 12-27-2016, 12:44 AM   #5
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Wow Jarrett, that's a really informative post thank you.

I have read before about the control arm spacing being different but the spindle shaft being different is something new!

So according to this thread (which I've seen before but I ignored because I saw something about it not working but now I can't find that ) I'll need s5 stamped knuckle, is that correct? As apparently 98-99 does not work, unless I've missed something.

So for the rear, still use the prelude hub but I require the 94-97 sedan knuckle?

Thanks again
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Old 12-27-2016, 11:17 AM   #6
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I went with Lee's information on the stamping for a while, but I can't seem to find anything that validates it with part numbers. I think he may be mistaken, in truth. You should be fine with any of the CG-chassis Accord's knuckles with 5-lug hubs.

For the rear, you are correct.
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Old 01-21-2017, 12:32 PM   #7
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Jarrett, hello and thanks for all your info. Respectfully if I may jump in... I am also looking to do 5 lug roh swap on my wagon with rear disc conversion.

1. if I go to the scrap and pick up front 01 accord v6 knuckle/rotor, I can retain my cb9 complete caliper? Or do I need the v6 accord caliper?

2. Will I need to change the front bearing for the v6 spindle or will the 01 v6 accord bearing work with the wagon axle?

3. Will everything bolt right up, or do I need to modify the ball joints/control arms in any way?

4. For the rear, will the 01 v6 accord spindle bolt right up to the cb9 with no modification needed?

5. Do I need anything different for the rear, or just the caliper, rotor, and spindle to bolt right in?

Thanks so much... I have difficulty going through the vast array of options and it's very very confusing for me. Just trying to ask direct questions
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Old 01-21-2017, 10:49 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opiateofsorrow View Post
1. if I go to the scrap and pick up front 01 accord v6 knuckle/rotor, I can retain my cb9 complete caliper? Or do I need the v6 accord caliper?
It is effectively the same caliper that your Accord wagon came with. Some changes were made to the casting and fluid passages, so they don't have the same part number, but your current Nissin caliper will bolt up to the new Accord knuckle perfectly.

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Originally Posted by opiateofsorrow View Post
2. Will I need to change the front bearing for the v6 spindle or will the 01 v6 accord bearing work with the wagon axle?
Technically, the hub that is pressed inside the bearing is what determines axle fitment. But yes, in this case your current wagon axle will fit perfectly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by opiateofsorrow View Post
3. Will everything bolt right up, or do I need to modify the ball joints/control arms in any way?
The 5th generation Prelude front knuckles are generally the only popular swap for the CB Accords that require any modification to the Accord control arms to make fit. There are certainly others, such as the 3rd generation TL I did, that will create the same issues, but usually, something else is being attempted there instead of simply trying to achieve a 5-lug car. The Accord knuckles you speak of will bolt to your Accord with absolutely no issues.

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Originally Posted by opiateofsorrow View Post
4. For the rear, will the 01 v6 accord spindle bolt right up to the cb9 with no modification needed?
The 6th generation Accord uses a completely different rear suspension setup than the CB does. It's a multilink system as opposed to a wishbone with an upright knuckle. Your option here is pretty much what I stated earlier. It must be from a '94-'97 Accord sedan or coupe. If you have drum brakes, get any trim level's components you want. If you have discs, you must get them from an EX. Then you will use the hub/bearing from an '97-'01 Prelude before mounting the rotor from a '98-02 Accord V6 or a '97-'01 Integra Type-R (same part).

Quote:
Originally Posted by opiateofsorrow View Post
5. Do I need anything different for the rear, or just the caliper, rotor, and spindle to bolt right in?
If you already have rear discs, then not really. Assuming we're discussing the spindle/knuckle from a '94-'97. The one thing that will be a hangup for you is the rear axle nut. The Prelude nut is what everyone else has used. It doesn't completely seat, but I would recommend buying three. Buy two to put on the car to test fitment of everything else, and have one you use to shop around with at nut and bolt stores. See if you can find one that has the correct dimensions.

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Originally Posted by opiateofsorrow View Post
Thanks so much... I have difficulty going through the vast array of options and it's very very confusing for me. Just trying to ask direct questions
No problem! If there's one thing I like doing on this forum, it's answering suspension compatibility questions. Mixing and matching OEM parts from other generations (when there is correct fitment!) is really fun to play around with!
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Old 01-22-2017, 12:15 AM   #9
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Quick note about the S5 stamped front spindle. There is a difference. I totally deleted the link I had saved, but the non S5 stamped ones actually do mess with the alignment specs somewhat. Changes the camber (pushes it out). The camber may not be a bad thing, unless you need the camber to fit wheels properly, or already have a camber kit, in which case it could push you into positive camber. Its much less headache to find the correct one.

Also, not sure if you have them locally, but find a 95-98 Honda Odyssey or Izusu Oasis. Its based on the 5th Gen Accord platform, and the front spindles are 5 lug version of the Accord ones and 100% drop in. For us in the US, that is mostly what I see people use. I always recommend this since 99% of the CD Accord guys use it, and never have issues.


And like Jarrett said, find a 5th Gen Coupe/Sedan rear disc setup, and you should be good to go.

Last edited by Corweena; 01-22-2017 at 12:19 AM.
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Old 01-22-2017, 12:32 AM   #10
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I respect what your experience may be, but I've searched part numbers multiple times and not been able to find a difference. Maybe this needs to be a discussion for another thread, but it seems that the original question has been answered thoroughly enough.

I looked up part numbers just now for a 1998 Accord LX V6 and a 2002 Accord EX V6. Both cars return the same part numbers for the front knuckles, bearings and hubs. The dust guard, however, does provide different part numbers between models. So it's likely not just an updated number in the system causing the earlier Accords to read a part number different than what they should have. For what it's worth the 4-cylinder Accord in '90-'02 use the same knuckle and bearing as the V6 for all 5 years. Only the hub and dust shield numbers are different.

Again, I hear that multiple people claim to have found an issue, but I simply can't discover what that might be. The part numbers just don't support that.

As to the difference of the Odyssey and newer Accord knuckles, I would still go with the Accord knuckles. It has a larger wheel bearing that should better handle the abuse of hard driving. If you haven't purchased anything at all at this point, it might even be worthwhile to find the front knuckles from a '99-'03 TL or '01-'03 CL. They are the same as the 6th generation Accord, but with 11.8" front rotors. While the rotors should be purchased new, the knuckles from those cars would also have the dust shields and caliper brackets handy. Just a thought.
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Old 01-22-2017, 09:14 AM   #11
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Jarrett... sorry wanted to clarify something else I found. With the rear disc swap, is it...

-94-97 Accord SEDAN knuckle
-97-01 prelude hub
-97-01 integra type r rotor (the prelude rotor isn't centered properly)
-97-01 prelude caliper????? I may have forgotten to ask this.

Thanks man. The integra type r rotor thing is something I read elsewhere.
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Old 01-22-2017, 01:10 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opiateofsorrow View Post
-94-97 Accord SEDAN knuckle
-97-01 prelude hub
-97-01 integra type r rotor (the prelude rotor isn't centered properly)
-97-01 prelude caliper????? I may have forgotten to ask this.
It can be a coupe or sedan rear knuckle. It doesn't matter so long as it's not from a wagon due to the wagon having a thicker spindle shaft diameter that isn't compatible with the Prelude hub/bearing. The 3.2 CL may prove to be an option for wagon owners, but it's mostly uncharted territory. Best to go with something safe unless you feel like experimenting.

Do you have rear discs right now? If so, you can use your current rear caliper brackets and calipers. If not, you'll want to grab them from any '90-'97 Accord, '97-'99 CL, '92-'94 Vigor or '92-'94 Vigor. You'll need the brake cables as well from one of those cars.

The rear disc cars also use different lines than drum cars. Make sure you get the hardlines on the rear trailing arm at the junkyard from whatever car the knuckles come from, and buy the soft lines new. I suggest stainless steel brake lines as they offer a decent upgrade.

The rear disc information is usually not included with the 5-lug conversion information as they are not mutually inclusive activities. Many people already have disc crakes, and others who do the 5-lug aren't interested in going to discs. So it's not information that everyone doing a 5-lug conversion needs.
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Old 01-22-2017, 07:17 PM   #13
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Thank you thank you thank you. Yes my car has drum brakes in the rear, so I'll be nabbing the hard lines and yes upgrading to stainless lines as you suggest. Hopefully the bolts aren't too rotted for the brake lines to the rear. Do I need to change the brake master or anything of the like? Or the hard lines I steal should bolt right up?

Oh okay and thanks, will I be using the integra type r rotor with any of those calipers described ? You didn't clarify that part. I read because the prelude hub sticks out further the prelude rotor won't work with the caliper
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Old 01-23-2017, 12:08 AM   #14
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You're right, you'll need the '97-'01 Integra Type-R or '98-'02 Accord V6 rear rotor. The only Prelude parts you'll need are the hub/bearings and the spindle nuts.

When I say hard lines, I don't mean the ones that run from the front to the rear. I'm referring to the small ones at the back. On the drum cars, there is a short soft line that runs from the hard line to the drum. On the disc cars, there's a short soft line after the long hard line, then another short hard line (you'll see it) and another short soft line going to the caliper.
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Old 01-23-2017, 11:00 AM   #15
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Wow, this is so heavily informative .. thanks to everyone who is contributing ..
Jarret especially hits home run after home run .. lots of great info!
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Old 01-23-2017, 01:59 PM   #16
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Yes nice to do some digging in the subject. Thanks Jarrett. What caliper and bracket should I use with the integra type r rotor? Prelude rear caliper and bracker should bolt up? Or will I need 90-'97 Accord, '97-'99 CL, '92-'94 Vigor or '92-'94 Vigor caliper to work with the integra type r rotor and prelude hub. This is the final piece to the puzzle for me thanks.
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Old 01-23-2017, 02:13 PM   #17
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Talking

Also thank goodness for not needing the hard lines all the way to the front ....
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Old 01-23-2017, 09:48 PM   #18
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I know that it means having to loot an extra car, but I would get the rear calipers and brackets from a '92-'93 (or a '91 SE if you can find it). The attached emergency brake cables are the ones that are the correct length for your chassis.
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Old 01-25-2017, 05:28 PM   #19
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I know that it means having to loot an extra car, but I would get the rear calipers and brackets from a '92-'93 (or a '91 SE if you can find it). The attached emergency brake cables are the ones that are the correct length for your chassis.
I'd recommend finding a '92-'93 Wagon EX, since the E-brake cables are a tad longer. The calipers also have a larger piston, measuring in at 38mm instead of 34mm, which is meant to help deal with the extra rear weight. They still use the same pads, brackets, and rotors, so they're compatible with the stock 4-lug setup as well as the 5-lug swap.
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Old 08-11-2019, 10:46 PM   #20
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The rear wagon knuckles have a spindle shaft that is too great in diameter for use with the '97-'01 Prelude rear hub/bearing. You would need to swap rear knuckles with a rear knuckle from a coupe/sedan. However, since the wagon adopted the later standard for control arm spacing, you would need the rear knuckle from a '94-'97 coupe/sedan. As you are trying to retain the rear disc setup, these knuckles would have to be rear-disc compatible as well.
Looking at part numbers (sedan, wagon), would using coupe/sedan rear arms on a wagon solve the alignment issue and allow you to stick with CB parts, using the coupe/sedan knuckles? Trailing arms are the same, but the other three aren't. I have FFC LCAs and toe arms sitting in wait for my wagon; I assume they were designed for coupe/sedan use. I'm just trying to keep the number of cars I collect parts from to a minimum.

So, rear:
- CB coupe/sedan knuckles, LCA+toe+upper arms
- BB6 hubs+bearings+nut
- DC2R discs
- If I were to end up in an LX wagon with drums, EX wagon brake calipers+hardware, as willbill was explaining in the last post, would be a slight upgrade in pad performance over the coupe/sedan brakes, correct? Has anyone even found a factory 'big brake upgrade' for the rear yet, to balance out the RL/TL-S calipers for the front? I might have to do some of my own experimenting there, with post-2000 Accord and Acura parts. That's a whole 'nother thread, though.
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