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Old 05-24-2018, 12:38 AM   #1
Losiracer2
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H22 Bogging and Missing TPS or bad catalytic converter

So I recently have developed a problem where my car would not want to idle very well and started bogging down and gets horrible fuel economy when driving, about 14mpg. I stored my car for the first time back in Dec 2017 and before then it was in AZ so it was regularly driven and never stored. I pulled it out of storage in May 2018, with occasional starts every month and added Stabil. I've added fresh gas since then, whole tank of 93 oct.

I adjusted the timing and got it close to where it needs to be, but I've got a Fidanza flywheel which doesn't have clear markings for the 15deg TDC, so I tried to match it up to the one tick mark I see on there with the timing light.

Symptoms:
-bad gas mileage, 14mpg
-stumbling when cruising on highway, randomly feels like throttle is closing/opening while my foot is steady, sort of feels like its missing too
-no power until I'm past 4-5k rpm and even then doesn't feel like its 100% at WOT. When I try and accel from 2-3k rpm it sometimes bogs down and goes nowhere
-no CEL or anything on the cluster

I have a 70mm BLOX throttle body and TPS sensor bolted to a Skunk2 IM running Type S camshafts and an RMF header with an Apexi WS2 catback.

Back in 2014 it put down 191whp, but it feels like its only making 100hp or less now at certain times.

Even though I don't have a CEL, should I consider replacing the TPS or do you think it could be related to a clogged/plugged Cat?

Spark plugs and NGK wires were done 6k miles ago along with intake/exhaust valve stem seals so it doesn't smoke at all, and its got a brand new Distributor (cap, rotor, coil, ignitor....entire unit)
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Old 05-24-2018, 12:50 AM   #2
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sounds like the TPS, I went thru similar issues and about 4 TPS' till I finally got one from a CD5 and everything's been fine since last summer. you can check it with an Ohm meter, attach it and rotate it, the resistance should be nice and smooth, if its jumps in value, there you go. The first aftermarket TPS I took apart and it seems like the engine vibration stress cracked the little brass wiper fingers that ride the resistive trace
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Old 05-24-2018, 12:57 AM   #3
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sounds like the TPS, I went thru similar issues and about 4 TPS' till I finally got one from a CD5 and everything's been fine since last summer. you can check it with an Ohm meter, attach it and rotate it, the resistance should be nice and smooth, if its jumps in value, there you go. The first aftermarket TPS I took apart and it seems like the engine vibration stress cracked the little brass wiper fingers that ride the resistive trace
yeah, I had originally set it at .45V at idle and 4.5V at WOT. But that was like 3 yrs ago. I think I'll need to hook up the multimeter and video it with my phone while I press the throttle from inside to see if its jumping around.

Not to mention this BLOX TPS sensor might not be the best qualilty. Its definitely not Honda quality, so it could have failed prematurely.
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Old 05-24-2018, 04:51 PM   #4
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yeah, I had originally set it at .45V at idle and 4.5V at WOT. But that was like 3 yrs ago. I think I'll need to hook up the multimeter and video it with my phone while I press the throttle from inside to see if its jumping around.

Not to mention this BLOX TPS sensor might not be the best qualilty. Its definitely not Honda quality, so it could have failed prematurely.
Id give it a shot and whole heartedly agree that the blox may be shit. My oem TPS got smashed when the engine was in transit, so I got a black works racing one, thinking oh ive seen that name around. Total junk. I went thru like 5 or 6 before getting the CD5, The BWR crapped out in a month, then I got a dorman, that lasted 3, An omnipower, I suspect was counterfeit couple of months, then Josh sent me an oem supplier; ISUMO, that lasted 4, couple more dormans just because, and finally when I scrapped the CD5 pilfered everything i could off it. Its funny because ALL of the aftermarket ones while calibrating them I could never get it between the factory specs, so Id get it to at least have proper voltage at WOT. When I put on the CD5 TPS, it calibrated perfectly.
There was some thing I read a while back, that a Lexus IS400 TPS or something, memory fails, is easily modded to work and theyre much more robust, caught it in some forum chat dealing with poly mounts killing the TPS. I think this last time I also cut out a little gasket from EPDM craft foam to help dampen vibrations. I think when/if this one shits the bed Ill try a Ktuned billet one, or buy one from the dealership. super annoying tho, and I have an auto so it really messes with me when it starts glitching.
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Old 05-25-2018, 12:04 AM   #5
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So i checked the TPS values with my multimeter and I was sitting at .56v idle and 4.56v WOT. The Blox TPS wasn't bad when cold and did a smooth ramp up without skipping values when I cycled the throttle plate.

I still decided to swap in my new TPS since I figured the problem was only occuring when warm.

I put in the Dorman TPS and got it to be at .50v idle and 4.46v WOT which I was ok with.

For the most part, my stumbling and missing issues are gone, but I can tell that the engine feels like it needs more fuel with all this air its ingesting through the TB and port matched Skunk2 IM and Type S cams.

I think my next solution to make it more driveable and less laggy is to get some RDX 410cc Injectors and get a tune.
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Old 05-25-2018, 04:32 PM   #6
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so now, i'm actually thinking it might be the Autozone Duralast Distributor I got. Do you think the new one is defective?

I set the timing on it, and drove it to work today, it was fine in the morning, with some lag still, but didn't stumble. Now, when its hotter in the heat of the afternoon, its running like crap again and bogs down like crazy.

Honda OEM ones are discontinued, can't even buy parts for them, aside from a cap and rotor.

Should I return it and get an A1 Cardone remanufactured one?
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Old 05-25-2018, 10:05 PM   #7
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I think theyre both the same deal honestly, I would pull it apart and make sure the ignitor has heatsink compound on it before its toasty. but yes, any boneyards to grab an oem one? You should still be able to get the pieces to rebuild yours with OEM parts.
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Old 05-26-2018, 12:52 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by illinois_erik View Post
I think theyre both the same deal honestly, I would pull it apart and make sure the ignitor has heatsink compound on it before its toasty. but yes, any boneyards to grab an oem one? You should still be able to get the pieces to rebuild yours with OEM parts.
If I was back in AZ, yeah I could easily get one, but in MI, nobody has CB7s here, they've long rotted away. I'm driving a unicorn lol.

I tried swapping my old OEM JDM H22A's distributor parts into the new Autozone one and I think its improved a lot.

I had an Accel internal coil that I was using before 2014 when I bought my first Duralast dizzy that I luckily saved. Popped that in and immediately notice no more bogging from 1k-3k rpm anymore and its improved greatly. Stupid Duralast parts. The brand new coil was probably defective.
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Old 05-26-2018, 08:15 PM   #9
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so the car's still doing the same thing, bogging like crazy when I take off and it misses again when on the freeway.

Could the injectors be taking a crap on me? or the fuel pressure regulator?

I have a spare regulator, but the injectors I don't have spares of. They're pretty expensive at Autozone, so I'd probably see if anyone has any good used ones on the forum.
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Old 05-27-2018, 06:36 PM   #10
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so the car's still doing the same thing, bogging like crazy when I take off and it misses again when on the freeway.

Could the injectors be taking a crap on me? or the fuel pressure regulator?

I have a spare regulator, but the injectors I don't have spares of. They're pretty expensive at Autozone, so I'd probably see if anyone has any good used ones on the forum.
the injectors have tiny little screen cups in them, my JDM motor's had some grit in them; itd be worth it to check them out, also a diy cleaning rig is pretty easy to assemble, with some hose and a battery, if the spray patterns are visually different then they are in need of servicing or replacement. Its probably still ignition issues since they cleared up but are now back. Basic things like that ground point for the bundle of grounds on the thermostat block good etc. go over all the plugs and shove the wires in, check clean the pins, dielectric grease, splice maintenance, did you mod for int/ext coil etc.

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Old 05-27-2018, 10:18 PM   #11
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I removed my cat to inspect it and it's in good shape. I found the rear gasket that bolts to my Special WS2 was bad so I replaced that and out it back together.

One thing Deevergote noted was that O2 sensor could be bad, so I ordered another one of those since it's been 5 or 6 yrs since I replaced that. It was only $29 at O'Reilly's for an NTK one so it's cheap enough not to worry about and try.

I'll swap that in tomorrow morning and hopefully see if that solves it.

Only things left are the injectors, fuel pump or ECU, but let's hope it doesn't get to any of those since they're pretty expensive
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Old 06-03-2018, 11:18 PM   #12
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So I swapped the O2 sensor and it didn't do anything. I also put in a new Fuel filter since the current one was 5 years old, and still same symptoms.

I rented a Fuel Pressure Test Kit from Oreillys and that gave me some good information.

Before the new Fuel Filter (Duralast) was installed, I was at 28psi at idle, after the filter, I'm at 30psi. If I remove the vacuum line from the regulator to the intake manifold, I'm at 35psi.

All these numbers are quite low, when referencing my Honda Helms manual. I should be at 29-35psi @ idle with the vacuum line plugged and unplugged, I should be at 35-41psi.

So, unfortunately, all signs point to a failing fuel pump.

I took a video of the pump and when I'm at idle its at 30psi, when I blip the gas, it dips down to 28psi and stays there. So my bogging is probably a result of lack of fuel.

I'm planning on getting a Walbro 190LPH pump, the stock replacement is about 80LPH, but I've got quite a few mods and might increase my injectors to some RDX 410cc ones in the future with a tune.

Walbro GSS278 190LPH pump - $68.89 at Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/Walbro-GSS278.../dp/B000EDCO5M

Walbro 400-965 Install Kit $31.75 at Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/Walbro-400-96...70_&dpSrc=srch
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Old 06-04-2018, 05:03 PM   #13
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See what kind of pressure you get when pinching the return line (briefly); I don't see it above, but did you swap in your spare regulator?
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Old 06-04-2018, 05:20 PM   #14
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I don't think it's your fuel pump. The symptoms would be worse and the PSI difference is only 1 PSI. Failing pumps usually quit all together. Try what fleetwood said first, but I think around 30PSI should be fine to my knowledge.

I think you need to collect more evidence here. Just thinking outside the box...

- After a run, what do your spark plugs look like? fuel soaked, fine, etc.
- Does it have the problem in neutral in the driveway? (when warm)
- Does the car do the same thing in neutral (coast on the highway,hold the gas)
- Would you say the problem is temperature related every time?
- Have you tested the voltage at the fuel pump yet after a run?
- Do you have any electrical issues? (did a mouse get in and chew wires?)
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Old 06-04-2018, 05:36 PM   #15
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I'd be looking at the mechanical timing and the MAP sensor personally


Also, make sure your resistor box is working correctly too. Sometimes they have weird symptoms when they fail and this is right on par with that.

Also, considered an intake gasket being bad? If you had a gasket fail, the pressure in the manifold wouldn't be registering correctly and the ECU would withhold gas because of it
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Old 06-04-2018, 07:48 PM   #16
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See what kind of pressure you get when pinching the return line (briefly); I don't see it above, but did you swap in your spare regulator?
I already returned the rented gauge and it was a bitch getting my old stud that holds the fuel banjo line out and back in. I actually rounded off the threads partly on my spare rail now using the two nut method. Took quite a bit of force to undo that fuelrail stud.
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Old 06-04-2018, 08:05 PM   #17
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Quote:
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I don't think it's your fuel pump. The symptoms would be worse and the PSI difference is only 1 PSI. Failing pumps usually quit all together. Try what fleetwood said first, but I think around 30PSI should be fine to my knowledge.

I think you need to collect more evidence here. Just thinking outside the box...

- After a run, what do your spark plugs look like? fuel soaked, fine, etc.
- Does it have the problem in neutral in the driveway? (when warm)
- Does the car do the same thing in neutral (coast on the highway,hold the gas)
- Would you say the problem is temperature related every time?
- Have you tested the voltage at the fuel pump yet after a run?
- Do you have any electrical issues? (did a mouse get in and chew wires?)
Most pumps say they put out around 43psi when running, when mine is running it initially puts out 30psi, then immediately dips when any throttle is applied. It doesn't get above 30psi, even if I'm at 4000 rpm or raise the throttle any.

I haven't removed my plugs, they're only 6k miles old, about a year and a half old.

It has problems idling in neutral, RPMs dip down low and sometimes have to blip the gas because of my lightweight flywheel and IACV that's probably broken too.

It doesn't idle when cold due to not having a FITV. When warm, the idle drops and sometimes kill the car.

I haven't tested the voltage at the pump. I'm just going to replace it since its 25 years old and has over 250k miles.

No electrical issues. Its an AZ car so its rust free, but who knows what happened when it was stored. It developed some surface corrosion on the bolts in the engine bay which pisses me off, even though I had it garaged and covered.

Quote:
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I'd be looking at the mechanical timing and the MAP sensor personally


Also, make sure your resistor box is working correctly too. Sometimes they have weird symptoms when they fail and this is right on par with that.

Also, considered an intake gasket being bad? If you had a gasket fail, the pressure in the manifold wouldn't be registering correctly and the ECU would withhold gas because of it
I need to do my timing belt soon. It was installed in 2008 has about 75k miles on it.

I don't have access to any JYs around here. New MAP sensors are too expensive, Autozone wants around $100 for one. When in AZ, I'd probably just meet up with people that had swapped CBs and it would be easy. Here in MI, nobody drives Hondas...kinda depressing.

My only option for a resistor box would be new, and it'd be way too much money, again due to no JYs. Never heard of bogging symptoms from a resistor box from all the threads I've read online.

Intake manifold gasket I have is a reuseable Hondata phenolic plastic, so its not a paper one that leaks.



Well I'll let everyone know what I find out. I already ordered the 190lph Walbro and install kit from Amazon and got a new tank base gasket ordered from Honda.

If this won't fix it, then I guess I'm doing a timing belt since its due anyways.

This car is frustrating me so much, I almost feel like just ditching it for something else. I've been trying to fix it for a solid month now, wasting all my weekend time with crap that doesn't fix it.
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Old 06-04-2018, 09:24 PM   #18
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Also, I looked at my Helms manual for the Accord and the symptoms seem to point to a fuel pump as the predominant cause. Loss of power>Fuel Pump. I'm thinking its just tired after that long, motors eventually fail right, usually they put out less power before completely failing.

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Old 06-04-2018, 09:42 PM   #19
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Sorry to see youre still having issues. Will be watching for updates.
Maybe the pre-filter sock for the pump has succumbed to time and schmoo in the tank and clogged up? Thats what came to mind when demanding more fuel and the pressure dropping, or like you said just a tired old pump. Ive always heard they dont fizzle out, they just drop dead.
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Old 06-04-2018, 10:25 PM   #20
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I have an extra used map sensor if you need one. Or I can pick one up at one of the yards near me this weekend. Lemme know.
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