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Old 03-15-2015, 10:52 PM   #21
ukemike
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Video

http://youtu.be/D1ojbhujeqw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-I3xcxJiKCU

Less than a week to the big race. God I hope it holds together. It's peppier than I expected, and though the suspension is very soft it should have prodigious grip due to the huge Dunlop Direzzas.
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Old 03-21-2015, 12:18 AM   #22
ukemike
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Do not buy these:

http://www.protuninglab.com/hoacciinprcr.html

They are garbage. They will not hold their setting under even the most trivial load (like driving around the paddock at less than 15mph). After much struggle I decided to fill the voids inside the units with JB Weld so they can't move. I hope it works. Who is the patron saint of JB Weld? I need to make an offering.

Last edited by ukemike; 07-18-2015 at 11:27 PM.
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Old 03-22-2015, 10:07 PM   #23
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Try 88-91 Civic upper control arms. Even stock ones should give you probably 3-4deg of negative camber and some more caster.
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Old 03-25-2015, 02:17 PM   #24
ukemike
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Originally Posted by ukemike View Post
Do not buy these:

http://www.protuninglab.com/hoacciinprcr.html

They are garbage. They will not hold their setting under even the most trivial load (like driving around the paddock at less than 15mpg). After much struggle I decided to fill the voids inside the units with JB Weld so they can't move. I hope it works. Who is the patron saint of JB Weld? I need to make an offering.
Okay the JB weld held all weekend. It makes sense since the loads were compressive and JB weld has a 14,000psi compression strength.

Our car kept going all weekend. The semi-race brake pads we started (that came with the car) with lasted until early Saturday afternoon, after that all we could get were the standard pads from NAPA autoparts. They'd last for 2-3 hours tops. So we got really good at swapping pads hot. The brake thing wasted 2-3 hours of race time over the weekend and we finished in 112 place out of about 177. This may not sound impressive but we FINNISHED. That's huge. I am ecstatic. It was sooooo much fun. On Sunday late morning with new pads I put together a string of hot laps, and my fastest was just a bit more than a second over our fastest driver (lots of racing experience). At one point I held off the eventual winner (BMW E30 and well sorted out) for more than half a lap just by being fast enough. Our tires were brilliant but it handled like a boat. We need new bushings everywhere and shocks, and brake improvements in a big way. I'd say that most of the teams had cheater mods and were well sorted. One of our team-mate drivers loved it so much he wants to spend his money improving the car. That's great because I spent as much as I could and I can't spend more, so it looks like we get to keep going!!!
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Old 03-25-2015, 02:25 PM   #25
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Try 88-91 Civic upper control arms. Even stock ones should give you probably 3-4deg of negative camber and some more caster.
Brilliant!! You anticipated my next big question. We found some adjustable UCAs for the civic that looked like they would fit the Accord but we weren't sure.

It's good to know they'll fit. I'm gonna have lots more questions, but I'll ask them in the appropriate forum later.
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Old 03-26-2015, 12:55 AM   #26
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Does anyone know how much brake fluid is required to flush the system completely? I looked up the fluid capacity faq here but for brakes it said something like "top it off". I want to flush the DOT3 out of there completely and replace with some racing DOT4.
I was able to flush my system with one quart of denatured alcohol followed by half of a quart of brake fluid for good measure,finishing with the remainder. bled and rock hard. do *not* use any petroleum based fluids to flush the brake system in case you didnt know.
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Old 03-27-2015, 08:45 AM   #27
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You can also just order a SPC/Ingalls camber kit and still maintain the relative geometry. It won't be the pretty tube control arms that you can get for civics/tegs but does it need to be? SPC offers two camber kits: +/-1.5deg and like -1.5 to -3.5deg IIRC. Check out the energy suspension kit for the bushings. It made the world of difference in my car. For the brakes look at the Wagon/prelude brake swap. All factory bolt on parts that again make a huge difference 10.2" vs 11.1" rotor and matching caliper. Not to mention the ROH swap that will make changing rotors doable as fast as the pad change. Find an EX in the JY or on craigslist that someone is parting out and grab the sway bars (at least the rear). Bump up your tires to some 205s. Hope this helps!
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Old 07-18-2015, 11:38 PM   #28
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Back in business

We're back in business. We are doing a bunch of work to get our car ready for the Thunderhill Lemons race in September. Our front end was a bit messed up if you've read this thread. I got some civic adjustable upper control arms. We also got some new shocks. The old ones were so bad. When we got them off one of the shafts was bent and the other was so loose you could compress it with one finger. Our brakes were also a disaster. So Tedd spent a day at the pick and pull and though we had looked up that they had several accord EXs and a few other relevant cars every one he went to had the nissin calipers. We have those and they suck because the only race pads you can get are bespoke from porterfield at $300 a pair! He did find a car with the Akebono's and he got the whole knuckle/wheel carrier unit. We also got new rotors and new front bearings.

A few weeks ago we got the new shocks on, and started replacing some of the bushings. Today we painted the car white as a starting point for our new theme. No fancy paint here my son and I rolled on some rustoleum. We also got the rotors and bearings on. Sounds simple but it was pretty epic. Great fun to.

We still have the rear shocks, more bushings, and more theme work to do. We also are going to get the A4 header on it finally, and Tedd's worked a deal with a guy he knows that will help us with the welding and get us a high flow muffler like a cherry bomb or something. Altogether if it doesn't break we expect to be much more competitive this time than we were at Sears Pointless in March.
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Old 07-22-2015, 05:54 PM   #29
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I have the Raybestos ST42 pads on Akebono calipers and they are incredible. THey've lasted a few races and never gave us problems. Pricey though

Also used the ebay Civic upper control arms and got 3.5 degrees of negative camber which worked great. One thing I did is weld the balljoints to the arms once they were adjusted because the bolts holding them are really shitty.
I wouldn't trust them on track.

Do you have any pictures of your arms?
What kind of shocks? I'm running Bilstein HDs and H&R race springs, which is a great combo.

Jay gave us some shit, but still put us in class B with no penatly laps
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Old 08-02-2015, 10:06 PM   #30
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I have the Raybestos ST42 pads on Akebono calipers and they are incredible. THey've lasted a few races and never gave us problems. Pricey though

Also used the ebay Civic upper control arms and got 3.5 degrees of negative camber which worked great. One thing I did is weld the balljoints to the arms once they were adjusted because the bolts holding them are really shitty.
I wouldn't trust them on track.

Do you have any pictures of your arms?
What kind of shocks? I'm running Bilstein HDs and H&R race springs, which is a great combo.

Jay gave us some shit, but still put us in class B with no penatly laps
We've been working the theme lately but saturday I set the camber. I've got both sides to match -3deg. Instead of welding them, tomorrow I'm taking them out and I'm going to make a brace that fits inside the top of the control arm to hold them in place.

We got koni orange shocks. They are on sale this summer and are cheaper even than most of the pure stock replacement shocks. The Bilsteins weren't in our budget. Not in the official budget or the real one.

I keep forgetting to get a picture of the UCAs. But they are these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TruHart-Adjustable-Camber-Kit-Front-88-91-Honda-Civic-EF-CRX-/281557040532?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories &fits=Year%3A1988|Model%3ACivic&hash=item418e1b7d9 4&vxp=mtr
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Old 09-17-2015, 06:15 PM   #31
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47th place overall

So at Thunderhill last weekend we placed 47th overall and 19th in B class. We ran without any mechanical issues unitl the very end. The handling was much improved. The brakes were flawless and as good as anyone out there. In the twisties and in the braking zone we could match just about anyone there. Naturally being a F22A1 we were a bit down on power compared to the 944s and the E30s so we couldn't contend for the win.

It was awesome beyond words and was epic fun. I can't seem to believe that a car that I did 90% of the wrenching on has actually finished two 14 hours endurance races.

With better pit stops and longer drives I think we could have a longshot at a B class win.

We are discussing the December race at Sears Point.

Our one problem was that on Sunday it got harder and harder to start. At our last driver change / pit stop we had to push start the car. I haven't had a chance to troubleshoot it yet, but it seems it must have been the pick-n-pull battery. If the alternator were dead and the battery low, it wouldn't continue to run.

Talking after the race we got thinking that instead of more power, perhaps we need lower gearing. Thunderhill is a fast track and it was probably 95% 2nd and 3rd gear, with grabbing 4th for a few hundred feet at the end of the longer straights. A lower final drive would let us use all the gears and could let us stay in the power band more often. That's like having more power without loosing the reliability.

Is it possible to change the final drive ratio? Are there trannies that fit that are geared lower? I read that the h22/h23 tranny is geared lower. Does someone know where the ratios can be looked up?

check out our race blog for the story, pics, and some video of the race

http://picknpullracing.wordpress.com
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Old 09-17-2015, 08:55 PM   #32
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Are you still running a F22 transmission? If so, your solution is a simple swap to a H22 or H23 manual.

Following are the gear ratios for the F22, H23, and H22:
F22 3.307 1.809 1.185 0.870 0.685
H23 3.307 1.950 1.360 1.070 0.870
H22 3.307 1.857 1.320 1.034 0.812

In addition, the final drive is 4.23 on the H22 and H23, compared with 4.06 on the F22. But the gear ratios are the biggest difference - the H22 and H23 have much closer gearing.

And it's an easy, direct swap. The F-series and H-series transmissions use the same case, so a direct bolt in.

Just stay away from the M2U4 transmissions used in the Prelude SH. This is a completely different transmission.
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Old 09-17-2015, 11:01 PM   #33
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Awesome race dude! Where do you live? I hope soon we can be at the same race together and have a CB7 party

Do you not have a GoPro on the car? PM me, I'm an engineer at GoPro
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Old 09-17-2015, 11:02 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wagon-r View Post
Are you still running a F22 transmission? If so, your solution is a simple swap to a H22 or H23 manual.

Following are the gear ratios for the F22, H23, and H22:
F22 3.307 1.809 1.185 0.870 0.685
H23 3.307 1.950 1.360 1.070 0.870
H22 3.307 1.857 1.320 1.034 0.812

In addition, the final drive is 4.23 on the H22 and H23, compared with 4.06 on the F22. But the gear ratios are the biggest difference - the H22 and H23 have much closer gearing.

And it's an easy, direct swap. The F-series and H-series transmissions use the same case, so a direct bolt in.

Just stay away from the M2U4 transmissions used in the Prelude SH. This is a completely different transmission.
Great info. I should start looking for an H23 tranny for my lemons CB7. What cars came witht he H23?
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Old 09-18-2015, 07:13 PM   #35
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In the US, H23 was only used in the 92-96 Prelude Si. 92-96 Prelude VTEC had the H22, plus all 1997+ Preludes had the H22.

And there are other options for close-ratio transmissions from Japan.
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Old 09-19-2015, 01:07 AM   #36
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Awesome race dude! Where do you live? I hope soon we can be at the same race together and have a CB7 party

Do you not have a GoPro on the car? PM me, I'm an engineer at GoPro
We do not have a gopro or a cool suit setup, or radios, or a cool RV. We are too low budget for any of that.

GoPro engineer huh? Do you work at the Clearview Way campus in San Mateo? I am involved with the environmental consulting on the garage construction project at that location. If I had a donated or loaned gopro I would make good use of it. If I had the money for one, I'd get car parts instead. The main reason I'd want a camera is to see how my team mates turn in faster laps than me.

I live in the North Bay and my team is trying to figure out if we will race at Sears Point in December. I've been covering the bulk of the cost so far, with substantial help from my team mates, but my wife is in grad school full time now so we have to live on my income alone. All racing, even crap-car racing, is expensive.
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Old 09-20-2015, 04:36 PM   #37
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Old 11-29-2015, 04:30 PM   #38
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update - brakes

We decided not to do the December Sonoma/Sears Point Race. We are going to the the February Sears Point race instead. I've been on hiatus for a while but yesterday I got going on it again.

Our brakes were magnificent at the last race but those Porterfield 4E pads chewed up the cheap rotors we had. So we got some better rotors, stoptech slotted. Yesterday I put the new rotors on. Before the last race we replaced rotors since some of the pads had worn too much and had scored the surface. That time was a nightmare. When removing the rotor/hubs the bearing had come apart and we ended up having to cut off the part of the bearing that stayed on. So before we re-assembled it we put white lithium grease on the contact surfaces.

This time it all came apart like a charm. We decided to keep these bearings for one more race before replacing them. So I got the rotors back on and while doing that saw that the pads are gone too. So that adds to the budget. We will probably try the standard porterfield 4 compound this time hoping for less rotor wear.

To do list includes:
replace the starter (I hope that's it)
new pads
oil change
coolant flush and replace with distilled water again (race rules)
oil change
brake fluid flush and bleed
find and fix the power steering fluid leak
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Old 01-30-2016, 09:52 PM   #39
ukemike
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Sears Pointless 2016 Feb 13 and 14

We are just about ready. We've got the a4 header and a race muffler installed. The suspension we upgraded before thunderhill was magnificent. We are debating getting another day or two out of our tires or starting with new tires. I got rid of the AC compressor. We have new stoptech rotors and porterfield pads. The brake fluid is flushed with fresh Redline 600 fluid. The oil is changed. We replaced the windshield. I think we are ready to race.

Tomorrow we will do some cockpit de-scuzzification and maybe give it a bit more of a wash before we take it around the block.

We are entered in Feb 13 and 14 LeMons race at Sears Point (currently called Sonoma Raceway). It's going to be a blast. Tonight I will be updating the blog, after I have some new pics up there I will get them up here as well.
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Old 02-07-2016, 03:49 PM   #40
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We are just about ready. We've got the a4 header and a race muffler installed. The suspension we upgraded before thunderhill was magnificent. We are debating getting another day or two out of our tires or starting with new tires. I got rid of the AC compressor. We have new stoptech rotors and porterfield pads. The brake fluid is flushed with fresh Redline 600 fluid. The oil is changed. We replaced the windshield. I think we are ready to race.

Tomorrow we will do some cockpit de-scuzzification and maybe give it a bit more of a wash before we take it around the block.

We are entered in Feb 13 and 14 LeMons race at Sears Point (currently called Sonoma Raceway). It's going to be a blast. Tonight I will be updating the blog, after I have some new pics up there I will get them up here as well.
Fun looking build!! Great job
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