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Old 08-10-2017, 11:24 PM   #1
Carbonaccord
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Dsm turbos bigger than a 16g that fit?

hey guys as the title states. Does anyone know of any Dsm flanged turbo chargers that will clear the f22/h23 block once notched? i currently have an evo3 16g which is great for around 370 wheel horse. but my supporting parts are hungry for something a bit more! my weakest link right now is are my rods. (eagle H beam steel rods, good for approx 600-650 horse iirc) anyway. here are my mods to the engine and related parts

Arais 9:1 compression pistons 86mm 2618 low silicone content alum pistons
Eagle H beam steel rods
polished and spec-ed crank with king race bearing xp series
a6 cam shaft
bisimoto pro springs
single angle valve grind
and basic reconditioning items like, valve guides, stem seals, crank seals, new oem oil pump, water pump, gates oem timing belt etc.

five o black ops 1400cc e85 compatible high impedence injectors
Hondata s300 on a p28 from HA motorsports
AEM320lph e85 fuel pump

so those are the more "core" components of my build. I'm looking for about 420-480 horse to the wheels and have been eye balling Forced Performance's FPgreen turbo (540hp capable see photo), an MHI 20g, and even an 18g. I'd like to have the FP green in my arsenal due to its size and power rating, but i'm very afraid that it will not clear the notched block on my FP manifold without some sort of spacer. any Reccomendations you experienced fellas have that DO clear the notched block without having to run a spacer?
Sidenote: Although my manifold is aftermarket from FP, its fitment is the exact same as a 1g and 2g dsm manifold. so dont let that fool ya. thanks in advance.

FP Green turbo


From left to right MHI 20g, MHI evo3 16g, 14b (stock 1g dsm)


16g clearance to block on dsm manifold


Edit: I understand that i couldve gone with a different manifold and turbo set up but as my build changed, i quickly realized the 16g would be too small for what my heart really desired. i dont want to toss out the dsm set up just yet. Also, i've recently been made aware of an FP turbo called the 68HTA which flows a healthy 51lbs a minute and is basically a machined 16g housing with a larger billet wheel and better flowing turbine.
Specs on FP's website:
Compressor wheel - 68HTA
Flow rating - 51LB per minute
CW Measurements - 51.2MM Inducer / 68MM Exducer
TW Measurements - 60.8MM Inducer / 54MM Exducer
Compressor Housing - 16G TD05H (56mm)
Turbine Housing - FP 8CM
CHRA - FP Journal Bearing


Last edited by Carbonaccord; 08-11-2017 at 12:06 AM. Reason: Jet fuel can't melt steel beams!
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Old 08-11-2017, 05:34 AM   #2
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Look into holset turbos off of oldwr dodge diesel trucks. Read up on it. Common dsm swap
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Old 08-11-2017, 08:42 AM   #3
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^^^ I must be missing something...

Holsets are going to be even bigger than a big 16g in terms of physical dimensions. HX35, HY35, H1C/WH1C, HX40 etc.

From physical examination of a couple Holsets personally the compressor cover is quite large. They do have a smaller side of course but it doesn't look to me that even while clocking any of even the smallest compatible Holsets just right that one would be able to attain an acceptable clearance. Especially when considering the physical dimensions of a big 16g to say a smaller HX35/40 Holset. Again, unless I'm missing something...

With a different turbo manifold I know it's achievable. But on the FP Race which the OP just bought for this set up... Idk. It can be pulled off with the FP manifold on a DSM but they have to modify or dent the water pipe. And they have significantly more room too mind you. I don't think one could get a Holset squeezed in on an F22A with the FP turbo manifold. Maybe I'm wrong but I just don't see it.

Physical dimensions aside... An HX35 in either 7 or 8 blade will push 500whp and spool 20+psi by 3500ish rpms. Ones like 52 lb/min and the other is 60 lb/min. Honestly that would fit the bill nicely. Again, if it'll fit.
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Old 08-11-2017, 08:11 PM   #4
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An HY35 is smaller than the HX35 and will also push close to 500HP, then you have the HE351 which is the upgrade to the the HY and HX. I can take a picture of all 3 side by side if you want as i have 1 of each one with the HX35 being no good.
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Old 08-11-2017, 08:16 PM   #5
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Why not have a local fabricator modify your manifold so you can run whatever size you want without having to notch your block?
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Old 08-11-2017, 08:48 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by steelbluesleepR View Post
Why not have a local fabricator modify your manifold so you can run whatever size you want without having to notch your block?
This, or if you are notching the block to accommodate the intake coupler why not have a short section of pipe welded on that will give you better clearance?
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Old 08-11-2017, 09:40 PM   #7
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A picture for reference.



It can be done but once you factor in the cost of fabrication and the manifold he could have went with a tubular manifold and not had to mess with any of this...


I will also mention as for welding cast manifolds, it can be difficult. Most fabricators will try a Ni rod and some will even braze. But most will tell you it's hit and miss. Some are better than others but most will tell you it's no cake walk. Just throwing that out there.

I was thinking an "adapter" as most refer to it as, between the turbo and the manifold. A person may be able to gain a couple inches clearance that way. I've seen some that were offset for lack of a better term but it's been a while.



Crankshaft having the HX35, HY35 and HE351 is pretty helpful. I forgot you mentioned that before Crankshaft. You might be just the person the OP needs to help figure this out.
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for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

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Old 08-11-2017, 11:43 PM   #8
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To clarify I meant a curved section welded on the inducer side of the compressor housing, similar to what some turbos have on the exducer side of the compressor housing.
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Old 08-12-2017, 12:42 PM   #9
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Ok so here are the pictures of the turbos from left to right; HY35WG, HX35WG and HE351EW.

As you can see the HE351EW uses an electronic Waste Gate actuator instead of a 90 elbow for vacuum, there is however a plug and fitting kit that you can use to switch from electronic to the old mechanical type.
IMG_20170812_121625 by Jesus Gonzalez, on Flickr


IMG_20170812_121636 by Jesus Gonzalez, on Flickr

IMG_20170812_121646 by Jesus Gonzalez, on Flickr

Both the HY35 and HE351 i have came of runing vehicles with the HE351 starting to burn oil, the HX35 i bought as scrap to tear down as practice. You can get two running HY35 for the price of a HE351 as they usually are sold as cores for around $300 in the diesel forums. HY35 can be had from $125-250 as they are the smaller turbos used on automatics and HX35 command a $200-$400 price depending on how proud the owner is of it. One last note is that there are two types of HE351 out there, the one i have is easy to convert for a traditional type setup the other one does not.
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Old 08-17-2017, 01:15 AM   #10
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Lightbulb

Hey guys, thanks for your input guys! Unfortunately after much more research, the biggest turbo you can fit on a dsm manifold to our blocks is a tdo5h (14b, 16g compressor housing) without having to run a manifold spacer or some aort of offset adapter as mentioned above. Fortunately there are some upgrades that can be had to help these snails flow more! Option 1 is the FP 68hta (that i mentioned earlier), which runs about 800 bucks new. It has all the bells and whistles you could ask for out of a bad ass 16g sized turbo. Td06 turbine, billet oversized compressor wheel, 8cm turbine housing, huge ported wastegate and flapper..and option 2 is something i came across just recently. TurboLabofAmerica's website has machining services that can stuff a 20g wheel inside of a 14b and 16g housing, cast or billet, and they can also port out the turbine housing to accommodate a td06 turbine wheel/shaft, as well as an upgraded rebuild kit with beefier thrust bearings. I believe its 340 plus parts shipping included for both sides of the turbo.So that is pretty nice. I may end up doing option 2 since I'm not ready to give up on my dsm set up just yet. I'll have to give them a call and see.
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Old 09-05-2017, 07:16 PM   #11
Carbonaccord
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Here's the Turbo i ended up going with! It's a TD05H evo 3 modified as a 20g Hybrid. My buddy Jeremiah Morrow on Facebook built this turbo for me. I spent a total of 598 shipped to my door on it.
-MHI evo3 Center Housing
-Billet 6 blade 206 Compressor Wheel with extended tip
-TD05H 9 blade turbine to flow more exhaust due to the bigger wheel
-Aftermarket 7cm Turbine Housing (These are cast as a ported EVO3 7cm Turbine Housing)
-New Upgraded bearing kit and new seals
-Blank 20g Compressor Cover (had to be machined on a lathe on the inlet just a hair on the Housing to fit the extended tip wheel since its only made to fit a stock cast 20g wheel)

That about wraps it up. The compressor wheel is noticeably larger by about 10+mm on the inducer. and the 99 blade turbine looks like it'll flow pretty well. My buddy says it should be good for similar power levels as an FP68hta which is 510 crank hp or about 430-440 wheel hp.




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Last edited by Carbonaccord; 09-05-2017 at 07:20 PM.
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