I feel the need to rant about silly folks.

[Accrdwgnguy]

and you, you're watching it.

Not that I'm any better, I do have a slight facebook addiction..I mostly post my car and house projects, I don't reblog funny pictures or cool cars that I can't afford like some of my friends do all day long. That's really pointless to me. But I don't own a smartphone, too expensive, rather spend the money elsewhere (tools and cars!) and experience life the way it's meant to be experienced. My gf does have a smartphone and I am breaking her of the addiction to it, she would play with it all the time and sometimes I would knock it out of her hand, don't get me wrong but I did it in a playful way by tapping the top of it to flop it over in her hand and not drop it. Basically to signal her to get off the phone and play attention to whats going on around her.

I don't watch short videos on youtube often, usually I go for the shows on youtube like roadkill, regular car reviews; you know stuff that has actual production value, not garbage of people making weird noises and doing stupid shit.

[CyborgGT]

What I mean, is that on the forum you have to actually speak English, you don't get instant answers, and it requires time and patience. Facebook is just the quick and dirty solution, I think the forum is better because people that can't be bothered writing here usually don't make it past 30 posts.

Does that make sense?

I knew exactly what you meant. Sorry, I was just having a laugh at trying to take that one sentence out of context... "I enjoy making my life more difficult!" While I've never seen the CB7T Facebook page, I agree with what you're saying.

[Raf99]

and you, you're watching it.

Not that I'm any better, I do have a slight facebook addiction..I mostly post my car and house projects, I don't reblog funny pictures or cool cars that I can't afford like some of my friends do all day long. That's really pointless to me. But I don't own a smartphone, too expensive, rather spend the money elsewhere (tools and cars!) and experience life the way it's meant to be experienced. My gf does have a smartphone and I am breaking her of the addiction to it, she would play with it all the time and sometimes I would knock it out of her hand, don't get me wrong but I did it in a playful way by tapping the top of it to flop it over in her hand and not drop it. Basically to signal her to get off the phone and play attention to whats going on around her.

I don't watch short videos on youtube often, usually I go for the shows on youtube like roadkill, regular car reviews; you know stuff that has actual production value, not garbage of people making weird noises and doing stupid shit.

haha, I hid my g/f phone on her once. That did not go well.

[Accrdwgnguy]

So I joined the facebook group left I left in disgust years ago. And checked it out, answered some questions. You know what I saw? You folks, being jerks to other people on there. One person posted a link to the general forum in response to someone's question and said " maybe you should search the forum instead of asking these very basic questions" and another one was "maybe you should try google to get your answer". No wonder people don't want to come here, they don't want to deal with the perceived attitude. If I was a noob to the community I wouldn't want to waste my time joining a community of jerks with a superiority attitude. A better approach would be to answer their questions with a link to a tech article on here, then they'll think "gee lot of info here, maybe I'll join" Even if they don't at least they are informed.

But really, why worry so much? If these people are willing to apply advice they received from some dude on a social media network on how to modify their car, they aren't real enthusiasts anyways in my eyes, since they can't be bothered to put effort in and research. They would just be blasted in the beginners section here, at least Deev is saving on bandwidth now.

[MrTShoff]

So I joined the facebook group left I left in disgust years ago. And checked it out, answered some questions. You know what I saw? You folks, being jerks to other people on there. One person posted a link to the general forum in response to someone's question and said " maybe you should search the forum instead of asking these very basic questions" and another one was "maybe you should try google to get your answer". No wonder people don't want to come here, they don't want to deal with the perceived attitude. If I was a noob to the community I wouldn't want to waste my time joining a community of jerks with a superiority attitude. A better approach would be to answer their questions with a link to a tech article on here, then they'll think "gee lot of info here, maybe I'll join" Even if they don't at least they are informed.

I agree 100% with this. You guys (in general not literally all of you) are being very condescending just because their preferred method of gathering information isnt like yours. I usually stay out of these threads because I dont have a dog in this fight but even back when I first joined cb7t its not like there wasnt any "less-than-informed" people here too. I dont use social media much but just because some people prefer to and use it as their forum doesnt make them less of an enthusiast. Stupid people are everywhere but theres no need to be rude about it. Theres also the chance that alot of people dont bother learning too much about these cars because they dont care about them. Theres no reason to learn everything about a car you dont plan on keeping. Make it look "good" and go on about your business until you get what you actually want.

[deevergote]

I genuinely tried not to treat the forum as something with which to bash people over the head... though sometimes that's difficult to do. When someone posts "How do I do an H22A swap?" on Facebook, there is NO way they're going to get a coherent, accurate "how to" on there. I would always direct such people to the forum, where the H22A swap thread has been posted for well over a decade... and it has been corrected, adjusted, and refined over that time as well. MANY people have used that thread as a major resource when doing their own swap. To direct them to that thread isn't being condescending. It's telling them exactly where they can find accurate information to answer their question, rather than whatever vague, disorganized, or blatantly false information they're likely to get on Facebook.
Of course, that usually resulted in someone bitching... or the OP continuing to ask questions that made it very obvious that he never bothered reading the swap thread.

Many people on there DO have the "search the forum, you moron" attitude, and honestly... I agree that it probably presents the forum in a negative light (of course, if anyone actually bothered to come here, they'd see that it's not at all like that!)



My biggest issue with the Facebook group, and the ultimate reason why I've washed my hands of it, is the propagation and defense of absolutely terrible information (regarding safety, legality, and reliability). People will argue ceaselessly in defense of stock-block turbo setups, knockoff suspension components, and the removal of emissions components ("we don't have inspections in my state"... it's a federal law, fuckwad... if you don't have them now, abusing that freedom will be the fastest way to lose it!)
DOING stupid things is bad enough.
Bragging about doing stupid things is worse.
Encouraging others to do stupid things because you haven't crashed, blown up, or gotten arrested yet is where I draw the line.
With effort, I could refrain from tearing into someone for doing something incredibly stupid themselves... but as soon as I see them suggesting someone else do something stupid, I found it incredibly difficult to just stand by and let it happen. When some moron is telling some naive, inexperienced noob that he can get away with doing something dangerous or illegal, that poor noob doesn't know any better. By taking that terrible advice, that noob is going to put themselves at risk. If they are lucky and they don't crash or get arrested for their stupid actions, they'll be yet another voice spreading the same bad information. I don't know if the morons just stayed away from this forum, or if Facebook (and other means of quick interaction) has really caused so much damage so quickly. I feel like CB7 owners represented on this forum for YEARS have been more mature, more careful, and more intelligent... which is largely credited to the existing members here that provide guidance and information in a way that inspires such mature behavior. Ever since the Facebook groups started popping up, though... it just seems that the maturity level has gone through the floor.
Maybe I've just gotten old.


The forum community is like the challenging, interesting classes in high school. The classes where we teach each other, learn from our mistakes, and strive to improve with the encouragement and support of others.
Facebook is like the gathering place for all the losers and dropouts. The kids who spend their days flunking classes they never go to, so they can sit around and experiment with new ways to get high. They only seek the approval of their peers, and as long as the people they like approve of what they do, they're satisfied.

[Raf99]

So I joined the facebook group left I left in disgust years ago. And checked it out, answered some questions. You know what I saw? You folks, being jerks to other people on there. One person posted a link to the general forum in response to someone's question and said " maybe you should search the forum instead of asking these very basic questions" and another one was "maybe you should try google to get your answer". No wonder people don't want to come here, they don't want to deal with the perceived attitude. If I was a noob to the community I wouldn't want to waste my time joining a community of jerks with a superiority attitude. A better approach would be to answer their questions with a link to a tech article on here, then they'll think "gee lot of info here, maybe I'll join" Even if they don't at least they are informed.

But really, why worry so much? If these people are willing to apply advice they received from some dude on a social media network on how to modify their car, they aren't real enthusiasts anyways in my eyes, since they can't be bothered to put effort in and research. They would just be blasted in the beginners section here, at least Deev is saving on bandwidth now.

I agree with this. But...

How does one tell them the answer is on X site without coming off as an ass? What's wrong with saying "hey, this site will have your answer for sure" in a friendly manner rather than spoon feeding them. Seems not spoon feeding them 100% = asshole. But I totally agree if someone is being rude, that is different.

The problem here is that they want to be spoon fed 110%. There is no friendly, helpful way for me to tell them where the answer is. No matter how many please and thank you's I say they want the answer given to them and they don't want to search/read any other site. Kind of the "just tell me how to do it already!" attitude.

No analogy needed here, I think you get my point.

[deevergote]

That's pretty much it. I can't say how many times I've seen "if u cant answer my question gtfo my thred". I've told people EXACTLY where to look on the forum... the only thing I didn't do was provide them a direct link... and they still copped a 'tude.

Sometimes people ask things like "what's the best lowering spring for stock shocks"... and when the only answer is "no lowering springs are compatible with stock shocks", they get pissed.


I assume the lack of patience that forum-bred enthusiasts like many of us feel is akin to the lack of patience expressed by pre-forum enthusiasts... guys that learned by reading books, trial and error, and talking with other local enthusiasts (personally, I think our method is much better... as we do those things in addition to reading and communicating on forums!)
The Facebook crowd is more impatient. The medium is attractive to people who want things to be quick and easy. It's not that everyone on Facebook is an idiot... it's just that the ease of information gathering (regardless of how complete or accurate it is) is appealing. Many people that are attracted to quick, easy information are also attracted to quick, easy, cheap modifications. Just as they don't care to actually understand the information given ("just tell me if it works, and how hard it is!") they don't care how safe, effective, or reliable a modification is.


There have been times where people would ask a question, I'd research it, learn the information for myself, and then decide not to bother answering the question. When I realized how easy it was to obtain the information on my own, I realized that the person asking is too lazy to even try helping themselves... and therefore would be a waste of my time. Especially if the information I just learned would clearly not be what they want to hear.

I often re-research (is that a word?) information that I already know, just to ensure it is correct. That's why people think I'm smart... because I do my very best to ONLY provide information on things I actually understand. Sometimes I'm wrong. Sometimes I'm VERY wrong. But for the most part, the information I give has been verified by at least one other reliable source, and I have usually looked into it deeply enough that I have at least a basic understanding. I've probably learned more about CB7s, and cars in general, while doing research for other people on the internet than I ever have for my own car! I actually enjoy it when the effort is appreciated.

[deevergote]

There are two things that I don't think I'll ever get tired of bitching about... idiot car enthusiasts on Facebook, and waiting tables (which I haven't done for 9 years... still get plenty worked up about it!)

[owequitit]

This is why I haven't cared much for the "Honda" crowd in over a decade. There is no benefit to it.

They all want junk, they all buy junk, and they all mostly build junk. It's all about eBay "JDM" trends and doing whatever is popularized by whatever magazines are popular. It started with Fast and Furious and just got worse.

There are some good tuners out there, but it is generally less than 10% of the Honda crowd. The rest is all just fart cans and stickers.

[Straight Success]

Open up a fully functioning custom shop for cars and motorcycles (import and domestic) with 3D design models that can be seen before hand with all the trimmings. At least that's the way I see it. Then there's no one to point the finger at if one fails... also, you get to be your own boss, and not have them steal credit for your work.

Oh, I forgot; don't fail. You know starting a business of this magnitude is tedious but rewarding - so I've heard . Walks away whistling...

Then, new trends can be set (not cheap ones), but it's not going to be an overnight feat. Who am I kidding? This can't solve the problems mentioned.

[Raf99]

......

I assume the lack of patience that forum-bred enthusiasts like many of us feel is akin to the lack of patience expressed by pre-forum enthusiasts... guys that learned by reading books, trial and error, and talking with other local enthusiasts (personally, I think our method is much better... as we do those things in addition to reading and communicating on forums!)
The Facebook crowd is more impatient. The medium is attractive to people who want things to be quick and easy. It's not that everyone on Facebook is an idiot... it's just that the ease of information gathering (regardless of how complete or accurate it is) is appealing. Many people that are attracted to quick, easy information are also attracted to quick, easy, cheap modifications. Just as they don't care to actually understand the information given ("just tell me if it works, and how hard it is!") they don't care how safe, effective, or reliable a modification is.
...........

This! Yep. And while it seems to be a generation thing, the saying is "if you want something done right, do it yourself." And reading books and learning still applies in today's world, just that the books and manuals can be found online. No excuses. (You'll see me rag on people in here trying to do complex repairs but do not own a car manual).

It is what it is, but ya, I love ripping on them and talking about it too

This is why I haven't cared much for the "Honda" crowd in over a decade. There is no benefit to it.

They all want junk, they all buy junk, and they all mostly build junk. It's all about eBay "JDM" trends and doing whatever is popularized by whatever magazines are popular. It started with Fast and Furious and just got worse.

There are some good tuners out there, but it is generally less than 10% of the Honda crowd. The rest is all just fart cans and stickers.

Good point. I've only ever modified Hondas, but dam i have to say I've always been curious of other manufacture trends (except ford and subarus :P ). I always tell people when they see my car "it could of been any car, this just happened to be the one I owned when I was young that I liked".

But as much as I modify my Honda, it will never be a true modified car. It's no supra, skyline, stang, M3, vette, etc. Technically its a grocery getter. A family car, a 4-door Honda. I wouldn't argue anyone ragging on me for modifying it to be honest. If I won some money it would be interesting to buy some 90's cars that were made to be a "race car". I think technically the only car Honda made that was a true track/race car was the Japan Spec Integra; perfect balance, race engine, etc.

Some days I wish I could start over on a different platform. Especially when I'm at the dyno shop and you see a right hand drive RX7 or a track made mustang / Porsche. I don't look at my car the same those days :P

[deevergote]

That is very true. That's a realization I came to right around the time I took my CB7 off the road. I realized that it'll never be great for anything in particular. It was about as fast as a new V6 Accord, on a good day. It could handle as well as a new non-M BMW, which wasn't shameful, but hardly noteworthy. I loved it for what it was, but I realized what it was. It was special to me, but for my own reasons (many sentimental.)
These days, I almost don't even understand the need to modify cars. When I started with Hondas, 300hp was pretty much the best you could expect from all but a supercar. Most of those cars making that much power weren't good for much more than straight-line performance. Now, you can drop under $100k and get yourself a brand new car making far more power than the average roadgoing enthusiast will ever truly be able to utilize. And they can turn. Even the Cadillacs can turn.
We're at the point now where modifying a car is a labor of love. If you just want to go fast, you'll probably do it far more reliably in a newer car... that will cost only a little more than a legitimate build of an old Honda.

I'm a fan of doing things yourself... but within limitations. I understand what I can and cannot do, and I won't do a halfassed job on my only car (or my primary car) if I'm unfamiliar or uncomfortable with a procedure. Today's kids seem to have the "do it yourself" mentality, but without the "learn everything the right way first" idea behind it. Worse, few of them seem to understand their own limitations. Few understand that there are some things that really SHOULD be left to a professional.
When I first got into Hondas, there were the DIYers... but there were also some very well known performance shops, and nobody got made fun of for having those shops build much or most of their car for them. Somehow, the DIY mentality took over, and it's now shameful to take your car to a pro to have it done right... as if it's somehow a point of pride having a halfassed "build" that you did yourself.
I'd rather say "If you want to do something yourself, do it right."

[cb9love]

What is really shameful is that my halfassed DIY build has out lasted the done right $10,000 professional build of my peer. Don't get to hung up on the word professional, it simple means someone who takes other peoples money because they didn't want to do it themselves..

I have no delusions that my first build was anything but halfassed, but when you can halfass one together for less than a $1000 does it matter if it needs rebuilt sooner?

[deevergote]

Engine builds are one thing. Halfassed engine builds in a car that's really nothing more than a toy... go for it. As long as you understand you're halfassing it.
Other things, like suspension... BAD idea to halfass that.

I feel that if it's a danger to you, your passengers, or people near you... it should be done right. If it's something that will leave you stranded, facing consequences at work or school when it does... it should be done right.

I've considered picking up the cheapest running POS I could find, grabbing a $100 welder from Harbor Freight, snagging a junkyard turbo, and doing the most ghetto rear-mount turbo setup imaginable. It would be fun for a few weeks, tops. Then it would blow up. I'd tow the car home, strip off the go-fast bits, scrap the car for a few hundred bucks, and consider it a worthwhile experience for the money paid. I wouldn't be endangering anyone's safety, and I wouldn't be risking my job or my grades. I would FULLY expect some grisly consequences shortly after I install the turbo, and I'd be pleasantly surprised if it lasted for more than a week.
I would not go around encouraging others to follow my lead and do what I did to the car they use to get to and from work or school, however.
Just as I've never seen you encouraging others to follow suit in regards to your build... and honestly, I have a lot of respect for that. There is room in the tuner world for some responsible carelessness.