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Old 10-08-2017, 08:42 PM   #41
HenRoc
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Originally Posted by toycar View Post
I get that as a person of color, this probably feels like your reality.

Can you wrap your head around the idea that no, its not fact, and until you have lived as a white person, you'll apparently never understand. The same cop thats an asshole to you, would be an asshole to me. Same arguement you expect me to understand, why cant you? Live as a white person before you think you know what its like. Dont overlook the idea that the hatred is the same, regsrdless of who is throwin it around.

What you are claiming, validates my point entirely.

I could offer examples and we could engage in some sort of tit for tat, whos had it worse but that wouldnt get anyone anywhere and all i am trying to explain here, is that people of color arent the only ones dealing with this shit, they just think they are.
I'm not trying to offend anyone here but yes it is a heavier reality for me than you. Yes I don't know what its like to be in your shoes but the reality of it is..this is what you see on the news, there's never a white person who is discriminated against and made public.

Tell me why whenever something horrible happens to an African American do they tend to focus or his or her bad rep involving the law but whenever a white person committs a crime they focus on the positives or question motives?

You're saying I validate your point..why because I'm pointing out the obvious?

Here's one incident that I will never forget:

I used to work for AZ years back..and I was onced stopped by a policewoman because she thought I was trying to steal stuff when all I did was take out the trash. 3 white kids were hanging outside the store I worked at because their truck broke down and they were NEVER carded but me and my friend who is Hispanic were, back up was called and I asked her why..her immediate response was 'How do I know youre not an asshole?'

I was beyond pissed...what was I supposed to do?

I work my ass off and I am the type that I don't stir up trouble ever and at the time, I had my uniform on with my NAME TAG so didn't my friend who happened to be the ASM at the time.

I filed a complaint with the PD that same night, only to be told 'Well we've had people do that in the past' which was the biggest bullshit line I was ever told..I was flipping mad because me and my friend who were just doing our job to close the store for the night were profiled.


That's the type of shit in my reality that I have to face. I don't ever speak of my own experiences because in some weird way I don't want to play victim I don't want to get angry and say oh someone pity me.

Because it isn't me.

I bottle it up and live my life but when I have to get real with some people in my life I literally tell them what I've been through because the sheer reality is just that: Racism is always going to be the norm in this country, it never went away it just stayed hidden. I'm not saying all are racists (shit it's both sides) but you see it and you can sense it.

Do I support the fact that some of these people who feel like they need to be vindicated go out and loot and destroy property? hell fucking no I don't.

In fact I'd rather see the positive impact instead of the negative impact that causes more harm than good be put to good use.

Unfortunately on both sides there will always be bickering and no real resolve.
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Last edited by HenRoc; 10-08-2017 at 09:15 PM.
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Old 10-08-2017, 10:09 PM   #42
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I dont doubt anything you are saying is true, and accurate to how you feel about the world you live in.

I was once taken to jail for driving under suspension when i walked to the gas station, by a black cop who was a complete shitbag and probably wouldve treated you just as poorly.

I was also in prison twice. You think youve experienced racial dispair, try prison as a white guy.

Look man, im not in anyway saying you are alone in your feelings, and the way the conversation goes i have no choice but to offer examples that discredit what you are saying. Plenty of white people get scrutinized publicly. Seriously. I can give yoh plenty of examples of this too. Not to go tit for tat, just please understand that we really are dealing with this shit too.

For example, many people hate trump. And i can tolerate the conversation and sentiment when people have a legitimate reason for feeling that way.

You have to know though, that Obama was NEVER as publically ridiculed and trolled as trump has been, and most people in your culture have a terrible opinion of the guy with little to nothing to back up the actual reasoning why.

I mean, that is if you follow politics.

And seriiusly, my whole point is that we are all dealing with it, it IS fucked up for everyone.

You must not follow politics if you think white guys are immune to public slander and exaggerated representation of facts to make people look bad. Both sides of the isle, all day everyday.

Look up joel osteen for a good read on trivial hatred and public opinions if you think white people are immune to it.


Again, i am not in anyway saying what you are referring to isnt real. What i AM saying, is that we deal with everything you are upset about too, and to think otherwise is actually feeding the problem.
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im a douchebag to people and i don't even own a lambo. whats your point? we, douchbags, come in all sorts of shapes and colours.
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Old 10-08-2017, 10:12 PM   #43
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Pertinent to the OP and this current discussion, did we hear very much about the DC snipers or talks about banning rifles (not "assault rifles but regular hunting style)?
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Old 10-09-2017, 05:35 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Bunta View Post
Pertinent to the OP and this current discussion, did we hear very much about the DC snipers or talks about banning rifles (not "assault rifles but regular hunting style)?
Ive read quite a bit about banning bump fire stocks, but nothing else.


Bump fire should be banned, its a poor mans fully auto weapon and if you cannot have fully auto, you shouldnt be able to own a bump fire stock either.

Who needs a fully auto .308 anyways? Hunting an entire herd of elk or something?


Anyone that actually thinks white guys dont deal with cops shooting them for no reason and then getting slandered by the police, should read about Danny Elrod of Omaha Ne or Jason Welch of Omaha NE.

Again, please do not take my effort here as disputing your reality, simply suggesting we are dealing with the same problems.

Heres a story that nobody gave a fuck about, concerning a white kid getting doused with gas and set on fire for being nothing other than a white boy. This happened a month after the trayvon martin incident by the way.

Nobody cared, you know, because wr are white and we dont deal with these problems too.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.nydai...icle-1.1033062

What about the mentally challenged white kid thst was kidnapped and tortured for hours in chicago, all sorts of nasty racist shit happened thst day and nobody really gave a fuck about that either

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn...ing/index.html

So, for real, i hope ive made my point.


This shit is happening to everyone. Its not just minorities dealing with this kind of hatred
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im a douchebag to people and i don't even own a lambo. whats your point? we, douchbags, come in all sorts of shapes and colours.

Last edited by toycar; 10-09-2017 at 05:46 AM.
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Old 10-09-2017, 11:34 AM   #45
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Bump fire is not close to automatic, in accuracy nor rate of fire. A trained person could manual fire as quick as a bump fire and to a higher degree of accuracy. Guns / ammo types are not the problem so making "solutions" based on them does little to solve anything. Civilians can own full automatic weapons, along with cannons and flamethrowers. The problem in owning a full automatic weapon is that they are expensive to purchase, nothing after 86' I believe is allowed to be owned and you must have special licensing to own one. Slicing away at your 2nd amendment rights isn't going to stop people from killing others, it will change how they do it.
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Old 10-19-2017, 03:56 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by lbus9168 View Post
Respectfully, I don't think following rules made in a very different world is the best way for a modern society to work.

I don't agree with it in the middle east and I don't agree with it here.

I understand and respect the views held to uphold tradition but it doesn't seem to work very well in practice.

Removing gun rights worked in my country. The many gun amnesty's we have has worked.

There are downsides to everything but we do not have the consistent gun violence.

We do still have violence. Stabbings, gang attacks, lots of terrible alcohol fuelled violence. People die.

But the risk factor is reduced.

People are always going to be terrible. Why make it easier for them to be so.
This is part of the problem.

In the US, gun violence receives a disproportionate amount of media attention because it is part of a larger political agenda.

In the US it is also more difficult to "control" guns because it is a Constitutionally protected right, just like free speech. People can dislike it all they want, but the forefathers who drafted the Constitution were very intelligent in knowing that one side of the aisle was going to always go after the firearms first, which they have, since nearly the advent of the protected right. They were also observant enough to understand human nature and behavior and they were all VERY clear that their intent was to preserve liberty and not to create "safety" which is really just control anyway.

Now to the other facets of the issue.

1) We have more stabbing deaths in the US than we do gun deaths. Not only are they more prevalent, but they are often more violent due to the nature of having to stab someone vs shoot them.

That isn't to say anything about the other modes of death in the US which are all more prevalent. Blunt force trauma (baseball bats, rocks, furniture) accounts for a higher % of US murders than guns as well. In fact, if you remove suicides from the equation, guns fall to a pretty distant spot on the list. Interestingly, gun crimes are predominantly executed with hand guns and not the "assault rifles" that have become such a social controversy.

2) The majority of "gun crime" in the US is minority on minority gun crime.

3) The majority of gun convictions and crimes are conducted by people who aren't even legal allowed to own a gun. (Approximately 70% of gun deaths are related to a convicted felon, which in the US precludes you from legal gun ownership). How do gun laws prevent someone who already owns a gun illegally from owning a gun? They don't. Everybody knows it, which is why they don't talk about it.

Thinks Bloods vs Crips and other gang related violence.

4) These mass shootings are absolutely tragic. But until the conversation focuses more on mental health issues, accessibility to information about mental health problems and the accessibility of that information to agencies that can prevent gun sales to such individuals it isn't going to go anywhere. The left wants to unilaterally ban guns and punish/remove rights from over 100 million legal gun owners to stop .000001% of the population that really needs mental health screening to prevent these types of tragedies.

5) There is still denial in the US that "gun control" is going to eliminate the problem, even though in reality, it won't be eliminated because people intent on doing harm to large groups will simply use other means, as they did the in the Boston bombing and as you are increasingly seeing in Europe where gun laws are stricter. Subway bombs, station bombs, etc.

6) None of this acknowledges the fact that as the US has tightened gun laws in certain areas (California, Chicago, Washington DC) the gun crimes in those areas have actually RISEN. Why? Because criminals don't follow laws, and that INCLUDES gun laws.

So eliminate the guns right? Well, in reality, just like the gun trade, as soon as we remove access to firearms here, there is an instant demand for cartel imports. Just like with marijuana, methampetamines (which were imported increasingly by the cartels as we made access to pseudoephedrine harder) and now guns.
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Old 10-19-2017, 04:08 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toycar View Post
Just want to point out that the passion behind some of these posts is exactly why we as a country are in such a stale mate on the issues.


Its like scott (i think thats owequitits name) feels so strongly behind his position he might try and make the case that people living in America should have machine guns and grenades, you know, because of the constitution.

No offense to him either, i generaly find his posts to be subjective and well thought out. Smart guy for sure.

But, is he really trying to suggest people actually stand and a chance against tyranny in todays climate? The weapons of today have advanced in a fashion that nobody stands a chance as a civilian against a government operation. Not in America anyways.


And the other side of the arguement, man its tough because i really do beleieve that its possible that minorities believe in white privilege and have it engrained in their head that white people dont deal with the same racisim, hatred and biased behavior all day every day.

But we do. My my apologies to anyone i upset with this post, but seriously, my fucking 10 year old boy gets picked on for being white pretty much constantly. Imagine having to explain to your 10 year old why HE needs to be tolerant of black kids making fun of him for being "pasty" or talking shit because he is "white trash" or a "honky"

We live in a nice place, sub 350k in rural iowa. We do ok, and out kids are well taken care of. Its not white privilege either, ive worked my ass of and had a full time job + my own business mostnof the 30+ years i have worked, but try telling that to the next "trayvon martin" who thinks im a white asshole because i drive an audi s6 and have quartz countertops.

Fuck that shit. I came from literally nothing, crackhead mom, drug dealing hells angel of a father. Ive been to prison twice and have "been there and done that" when it comes to roughing it.

At one point in my life i survived on top ramen + italian salad dressing while living in a fucking $29/night hotel.


Life is all about how hard you try and how bad do you want it.

End of story. No color, race or religion will help you if you do not try and you do not want it.


Minorities would riot at an epic scale if there was even one tenth the divisive, singularized rhetoric coming out of white people as there is coming from minorities per capita. Its as if they dont realize that every person they project their beleif onto, that isnt actually racist, is in fact a racist attack and contributes to racism.

For every black lives matter demonstration targeting one single police incident, its like they are calling the other 100,000 good cops racist as well, and we all know that just isnt true.

Its hard to not understand the rationale behind the anger, of course i was upset when they killed and didnt have to. Thing is, more minorities kill minorities for sensless crime than cops kill minorities for debateble reasons.


The hatred is so vile and is being driven by naiive beliefs on both sides of the equation. Everyone really should spend a few minutes trying to walk in the other guys shoes and perhaps this would all just simmer down.

Common sense has to prevail at some point, you would think anyways.
Yes that is my name.

And from a strictly legal perspective, yes, that is what I am saying. There is a difference between theory and reality though. Of course, you might be interested to know that is actually legal to purchase surplus fighter jets, tanks, etc. They don't give you the munitions, but you can get around that too if you really wanted. The premise was that the population should be equally equipped as the people in the military. The assertion that the forefathers didn't mean that is false and incorrect. Not only have they all written it down, but at that time everybody had single fire muskets, so the assertion that they didn't understand the concept of equal munitions is silly. That said, even in this day and age, a good shooter can do a lot more damage with a heavy gauge hunting rifle than a small gauge semi-auto. Fully auto is typically pretty ineffective too because they are more of a spray and pray device. Troops in country very seldom use fully automatic settings.

But the large point is this:

In reality, it is seldom the full military that takes the guns. It is usually the police special forces. It wasn't the German Army. It was the SS. They didn't do it with a platoon. They did it with 1 or 2 officers that came around and searched your property and seized any weapons and then sent you off to a concentration camp. The rounding up of "undesirables" didn't start until AFTER they had gone from house to house and removed the weapons. Why? Because the populace had no way to resist at that point.

You also forget that like most things in the US, we have checks and balances. A lot of your military troops are gun toting, Constitution loving rednecks that would probably just walk away if they were ordered to start seizing people's weapons.

Still, the point of it all is to make a major impediment to having weapons unilaterally removed so that the government can do what they want. If you think 300 million gun owners with almost 1 billion guns and over a trillion rounds of ammunition aren't going to so some damage against an army that has about 300,000 active soldiers, regardless of armament, then you don't understand the physics of it very well. Keep in mind that both the Iraqis and the Vietnamese and the Taliban have successfully rebuffed our advances with overwhelming superiority. And they usually did it with weapons that were 1 or more generations behind what our troops were carrying. In the case of the Vietnamese, we unleashed every big armament we had against them for 12 years and they still worked around it. The Taliban is driving around in Toyota trucks with a machine gun bolted in the bed and we defeated the world's most powerful military in the late 1700's with a bunch of "farmers with pitchforks."
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Old 10-19-2017, 06:33 PM   #48
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Scott, there are 300 million guns, not gun owners. I do agree though that anyone coming to collect guns will have a hell of a fight on their hands. The cat is out of the bag on that one, so even if one feels like guns should be banned such an act isn't practical. We have to deal with real life and accept the fact that we could all be killed tomorrow by a homicidal maniac.

toycar I know it's nice to believe that everyone has it equally as bad, but going tit for tat with statistically meaningless anecdotes is pointless. Racial imbalances in the justice system are well documented. That's not to say that people like you may not face any unfairness in the system, but some people def get a worse shake than others for no other reason than the color of their skin. If you like I can post links.

I think a huge part of why this country is going to shit is because of this newfound obsession with claiming victim status. "Black lives matter? All lives matter!" "They're coming after Christmas!" "Police are the worst treated people in America".... it's ridiculous. Let's put things in an objective perspective and stop trying to "out suffer" each other. It's clear who has it better or worse than others and what's going on. Instead of trying to out do other people in suffering just try and empathize and see where they are coming from, and more importantly find some common ground. A lot of people are going through the same shit regardless of skin color, but it's callous to dismiss the fact that some people definitely have it worse than others. You wouldn't go up to a homeless person on the street and say "hey man stop complaining we all have problems" would you?
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Old 10-19-2017, 10:17 PM   #49
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I think a huge part of why this country is going to shit is because of this newfound obsession with claiming victim status. "Black lives matter? All lives matter!" "They're coming after Christmas!" "Police are the worst treated people in America".... it's ridiculous. Let's put things in an objective perspective and stop trying to "out suffer" each other. It's clear who has it better or worse than others and what's going on. Instead of trying to out do other people in suffering just try and empathize and see where they are coming from, and more importantly find some common ground. A lot of people are going through the same shit regardless of skin color, but it's callous to dismiss the fact that some people definitely have it worse than others. You wouldn't go up to a homeless person on the street and say "hey man stop complaining we all have problems" would you?
As an addendum to this, I think a lot of people have forgotten how to be good to each other, to help each other.

Social media has a lot to do with this. It's very easy to sit behind a computer screen and spew out whatever you want. If you want to see the worst in humanity, read the comments section of any article / Youtube video / etc. I also think there are a growing number of people who just want to be offended by something, to be "triggered" by something, etc. The problem is this seriously marginalizes people who have legitimate issues.

The country seems to be subdividing into smaller and smaller groups at an alarming rate, and this is easy to see with the availability of forums and Reddit and other social media. When you exist only in these areas, the hive mind mentality makes it simple to see how it can happen. There is a growing number of people who crave to be different than others and need to force it down everyone's throat. There needs to be some sort of balance, some sort of logical middle ground.

A great case in point, although hardly deep is the Corvette forums that I'm on, especially in the C5 subforum. Those people view it as the greatest car in history and nothing is better, faster, or better looking. There is are threads about it being the only sports car that exists at it's price point. If you bring up any other model, the hive mind says it can't be better. There's a huge thread on the WRX and it's 'Murica this and that and that it's only a "youth model that sucks". There's no other rational mindset of "hey, there might be something else out there that is worth looking into, and even if I don't like it, I can respect what it is". It's "that is terrible, I'm the best, you are stupid if you disagree, end of story".

We are seeing this with every topic now, from race relations to politics to gender and sexuality. We are truly a country divided and it's difficult because wherever we look, we see it. Washington no longer cares about what's best for it's people, it's simply if the Democrats want it, Republicans will oppose it. If the Republicans want it, Democrats will oppose it, regardless of the impact on society. If tomorrow the Republicans brought up a way to give every person in the country $25,000 cash, without any sort of impact to the economy, taxes, etc, literally no downfall, the Democrats would say absolutely not. It would be the same if it were the other way around. This is the upsetting thing to me. Now, I don't have a hugely great frame of reference for this, but it seems to me like it's getting worse and worse and worse and I don't know how to change it.

There has to be a solution to this, but I don't know what that is. Everyone is human, everyone has good and bad. Try to be kind to each other, don't intentionally hurt other people. Maybe I'm just not hardened enough inside.
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Old 10-19-2017, 11:45 PM   #50
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I agree with both of these last two posts entirely.

Perhaps i couldve spent more time emphasizing that. It just pisses me off when people take the position that white people are immune to this shit or have a cake walk in life just because we are white.

I dont know how one would ever stop the cycle of disproportionately violant crime in a demographic or part of town leading to a stereotype problem by the local authority.

Thats such a tough deal there. Of course the stereotype is wrong. I cant imagine people are immune to a natural feeling or reaction over time through exposure either.

How does that cycle ever stop feeding itself? I really have no idea, but i think both of you guys pointing out that the world needs to chill out and remember to be good to one another is a great place to start
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im a douchebag to people and i don't even own a lambo. whats your point? we, douchbags, come in all sorts of shapes and colours.
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Old 10-21-2017, 02:43 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by HenRoc View Post
Im not one to always bring up race all the time but it's what you see on the news, I agree the whole issue with Chicago is never put under a spot light, but at the same time you have cops you tend to go over the boundaries as a public servant and as a result people get killed namely african americans.

When other cops don't hold their own accountable and the person gets let go for murder as an african american it a sense of injustice.

An African-American cop in NOLA got convicted for shooting a 6 year old that was sitting in a car and got hit with 40 years.

Philando Castiles murderer got off...and he was a Hispanic officer, same thing with Trayvon Martin, Eric Garner (by a chokehold that was illegalby NY State Law) , Fergusons to name a few.

We don't hear about todays discrimination against whites because some would see it as them playing victim so in a way it's a reversal of roles, now I'm not saying all but it's there...I've been in some fucked up situations where I was never aggressive towards cops, but the way I was treated a few times made me really aware of who I was and where I was at all times.

You don't get scrutinized as much unless you're a p.o.c and that's fact.
In most of those cases, it was the legal system that let the person go. Remember that in each of those cases, it was a trial by jury of peers that were chosen and agreed to by BOTH sides, which means that in all cases it was probably the legal system actually doing its job.

It's great to make social statements that we don't know for sure, but I can tell you for a fact that in the case of Ferguson, the officer was exonerated by physical evidence and ballistics and not some social injustice. In fact, being a very high profile case, it was reviewed multiple times by multiple M.E.'s and a lot of specialists with specific ballistics knowledge, etc were brought in as independent reviews. The only review that sided with Michael Brown's side of the story was bought and paid for by supporters of the family and organizations with a specific agenda. In at least 2 cases, it was reviewed and verified by publicly paid, publicly employeed ME offices that were complete independent of the case and they agreed that the evidence did indeed show that Darren Brown did not kill in cold blood. The problem was that by the time we actually got to that point, the national dialogue had already been formed and the facts were lost in the crossfire of social justice.

As for P.O.C. or not P.O.C., I can't say because I am not P.O.C. However, I think the assumption that POC's are the only ones that get X treatment are incorrect. I have been scrutinized for drugs when I got pulled over and I have been pulled over for seemingly senseless things, and I get the same looks in an all black neighborhood that you get in all white ones. I have no criminal record, did nothing wrong, etc. In many cases, treatment is based on behavior, past and frankly, the way the officer interprets things on the side of the road. Each traffic stop could be the next Las Vegas gunman who had no prior issues or past, but suddenly becomes an immediate threat to the officer's life.

Unfortunately, as we continue to drive the racial divide into the polices' hands and they have to deal with every escalating and increasing tensions, the problem is going to get worse because THEY also want to go home to their families. They are going to react accordingly, even if it isn't always appropriate. My grandfather was a cop in the Chicago area, and a Fire Fighter and a Grunt in Korea. You can't understand the perspective of a cop unless you have been one. He told me about it, and you still can't quite fathom it, but I can fathom making time critical decision, in the heat of the moment, with a ticking clock and hoping you have the best available information, while trying to protect as much life as possible. A lot of people do.

The police have become more militarized as a result of escalating violence and most of that increased violence isn't mass shootings. You have drugs, cartels, etc. It is just getting crazy and I don't think the solution is an easy or cut and dry one.
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Old 10-21-2017, 02:49 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toycar View Post
Ive read quite a bit about banning bump fire stocks, but nothing else.


Bump fire should be banned, its a poor mans fully auto weapon and if you cannot have fully auto, you shouldnt be able to own a bump fire stock either.

Who needs a fully auto .308 anyways? Hunting an entire herd of elk or something?


Anyone that actually thinks white guys dont deal with cops shooting them for no reason and then getting slandered by the police, should read about Danny Elrod of Omaha Ne or Jason Welch of Omaha NE.

Again, please do not take my effort here as disputing your reality, simply suggesting we are dealing with the same problems.

Heres a story that nobody gave a fuck about, concerning a white kid getting doused with gas and set on fire for being nothing other than a white boy. This happened a month after the trayvon martin incident by the way.

Nobody cared, you know, because wr are white and we dont deal with these problems too.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.nydai...icle-1.1033062

What about the mentally challenged white kid thst was kidnapped and tortured for hours in chicago, all sorts of nasty racist shit happened thst day and nobody really gave a fuck about that either

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn...ing/index.html

So, for real, i hope ive made my point.


This shit is happening to everyone. Its not just minorities dealing with this kind of hatred
Actually, the DOJ breaks down the data. White people are killed by cops at a higher rate than black people, but where the rub comes in (and the media puts their slant on it) is the PROPORTION of relative shootings. Basically, the shooting of white people is LESS than their % of the total population (say 30% of shootings, but 40% of the US population) while the black death rate is higher than their proportion of the population. These are both valid facts.

However, where the gray area is starts when you look at the relative crime rates for each population as it is well known and well accepted that the majority of crime in the US occurs in poor neighborhoods and in those neighborhoods the people are more likely to be black than white.
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Old 10-21-2017, 03:01 AM   #53
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Scott, there are 300 million guns, not gun owners. I do agree though that anyone coming to collect guns will have a hell of a fight on their hands. The cat is out of the bag on that one, so even if one feels like guns should be banned such an act isn't practical. We have to deal with real life and accept the fact that we could all be killed tomorrow by a homicidal maniac.

toycar I know it's nice to believe that everyone has it equally as bad, but going tit for tat with statistically meaningless anecdotes is pointless. Racial imbalances in the justice system are well documented. That's not to say that people like you may not face any unfairness in the system, but some people def get a worse shake than others for no other reason than the color of their skin. If you like I can post links.

I think a huge part of why this country is going to shit is because of this newfound obsession with claiming victim status. "Black lives matter? All lives matter!" "They're coming after Christmas!" "Police are the worst treated people in America".... it's ridiculous. Let's put things in an objective perspective and stop trying to "out suffer" each other. It's clear who has it better or worse than others and what's going on. Instead of trying to out do other people in suffering just try and empathize and see where they are coming from, and more importantly find some common ground. A lot of people are going through the same shit regardless of skin color, but it's callous to dismiss the fact that some people definitely have it worse than others. You wouldn't go up to a homeless person on the street and say "hey man stop complaining we all have problems" would you?
It was a typo, but remember that many of those numbers are based on estimates and "self reporting." I know quite a few people who do NOT report what they own. I have known convicted felons that owned guns (which is why I know that such laws don't prevent them from getting them) and that is not to judge, but just to illustrate reality.

States like California are in for a major pant shitting if the world ever goes to hell because the liberals are not going to believe how quickly automatic rifles by the thousand start coming out of people's closets, basements, etc, so I don't think we have a very accurate count of what is actually out there.

The rest of it, I agree 100%.
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Old 10-21-2017, 03:08 AM   #54
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As an addendum to this, I think a lot of people have forgotten how to be good to each other, to help each other.

Social media has a lot to do with this. It's very easy to sit behind a computer screen and spew out whatever you want. If you want to see the worst in humanity, read the comments section of any article / Youtube video / etc. I also think there are a growing number of people who just want to be offended by something, to be "triggered" by something, etc. The problem is this seriously marginalizes people who have legitimate issues.

The country seems to be subdividing into smaller and smaller groups at an alarming rate, and this is easy to see with the availability of forums and Reddit and other social media. When you exist only in these areas, the hive mind mentality makes it simple to see how it can happen. There is a growing number of people who crave to be different than others and need to force it down everyone's throat. There needs to be some sort of balance, some sort of logical middle ground.

A great case in point, although hardly deep is the Corvette forums that I'm on, especially in the C5 subforum. Those people view it as the greatest car in history and nothing is better, faster, or better looking. There is are threads about it being the only sports car that exists at it's price point. If you bring up any other model, the hive mind says it can't be better. There's a huge thread on the WRX and it's 'Murica this and that and that it's only a "youth model that sucks". There's no other rational mindset of "hey, there might be something else out there that is worth looking into, and even if I don't like it, I can respect what it is". It's "that is terrible, I'm the best, you are stupid if you disagree, end of story".

We are seeing this with every topic now, from race relations to politics to gender and sexuality. We are truly a country divided and it's difficult because wherever we look, we see it. Washington no longer cares about what's best for it's people, it's simply if the Democrats want it, Republicans will oppose it. If the Republicans want it, Democrats will oppose it, regardless of the impact on society. If tomorrow the Republicans brought up a way to give every person in the country $25,000 cash, without any sort of impact to the economy, taxes, etc, literally no downfall, the Democrats would say absolutely not. It would be the same if it were the other way around. This is the upsetting thing to me. Now, I don't have a hugely great frame of reference for this, but it seems to me like it's getting worse and worse and worse and I don't know how to change it.

There has to be a solution to this, but I don't know what that is. Everyone is human, everyone has good and bad. Try to be kind to each other, don't intentionally hurt other people. Maybe I'm just not hardened enough inside.
I see this everyday in my line of work. Our poor flight attendants... What a shitty job in this day and age. I watched a guy tell one of the that his giant oversize bag would fit and she got tired of fighting with him over it, so she let it on and told him "don't force the door shut, or you will break it and we can't go and you will miss your tight connection (which is always the reason for it in the first place)" He did exactly what she said not to, jammed the door, and when she made a statement about it before pushback, he got up, said "it isn't JAMMED!" and then Herc'd on the door with all of his might. You can imagine his surprise as the entire bin came off of the ceiling and dropped down about 6" so you could see the wiring, the o2 generators, the air vent tubes etc. It was like "really?" Needless to say he didn't make his connection, we were delayed about 3 hours while they fixed the bin and my sense of faith in humanity was slightly restored when he was passively passenger shamed by the rest of the customers during the whole flight. He didn't even move the entire time.

I also question "where it ends" and I hope it isn't with a complete oblivion causing people to realize what reality actually looks like...
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Old 10-21-2017, 05:24 AM   #55
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I think the long and short of it is that humans are inherently self-interested. Society can only really work if it forces people to consider and account for others.... however, through various mechanisms (largely self-segregation through mediums like the internet and where people choose to live) we are starting to move away from that.

This is part of why I try to associate with people who are different from me, even if I don't necessarily agree with their beliefs. Self-segregation allows us to dehumanize people who aren't like us. MGTOW dehumanizes women. White supremacists dehumanize minorities and "cucks". Black supremacists dehumanize whites, "coons" and "bedwenches". When you live in a bubble it becomes very easy. So the key is to step out of it. It's a lot harder to hate people in person.
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im with you on that one bro! aint nothing beat free food and drinks any day of the week, even if its at a funeral
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Old 10-21-2017, 01:00 PM   #56
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I think the long and short of it is that humans are inherently self-interested. Society can only really work if it forces people to consider and account for others.... however, through various mechanisms (largely self-segregation through mediums like the internet and where people choose to live) we are starting to move away from that.

This is part of why I try to associate with people who are different from me, even if I don't necessarily agree with their beliefs. Self-segregation allows us to dehumanize people who aren't like us. MGTOW dehumanizes women. White supremacists dehumanize minorities and "cucks". Black supremacists dehumanize whites, "coons" and "bedwenches". When you live in a bubble it becomes very easy. So the key is to step out of it. It's a lot harder to hate people in person.
not to get off topic but MGTOW has very little to do with women persay. I can give you a much better look into this group.
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Old 10-21-2017, 04:34 PM   #57
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I think the long and short of it is that humans are inherently self-interested. Society can only really work if it forces people to consider and account for others.... however, through various mechanisms (largely self-segregation through mediums like the internet and where people choose to live) we are starting to move away from that.

This is part of why I try to associate with people who are different from me, even if I don't necessarily agree with their beliefs. Self-segregation allows us to dehumanize people who aren't like us. MGTOW dehumanizes women. White supremacists dehumanize minorities and "cucks". Black supremacists dehumanize whites, "coons" and "bedwenches". When you live in a bubble it becomes very easy. So the key is to step out of it. It's a lot harder to hate people in person.
That's why I like the term "echo chambers." People in today's society tend to surround themselves with only people who echo their sentiments and automatically dismiss 100% of anything that doesn't agree with their ideology.

It is rampant and dangerous.
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Old 10-21-2017, 04:52 PM   #58
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not to get off topic but MGTOW has very little to do with women persay. I can give you a much better look into this group.
No thanks, I've had enough of a look to know it sucks. A bunch of guys blaming their failures with women on some grand conspiracy across society is bad business. You don't have to commiserate with a bunch of angry bitter men to decide that marriage and other societal male-female conventions are not for you. MGTOW is exactly the kind of echo chamber I'm talking about.
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Old 10-21-2017, 11:20 PM   #59
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That's why I like the term "echo chambers." People in today's society tend to surround themselves with only people who echo their sentiments and automatically dismiss 100% of anything that doesn't agree with their ideology.

It is rampant and dangerous.
Yes. The very best thing about the Internets is inherently the very worst as well.
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Old 10-22-2017, 05:37 PM   #60
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Yes. The very best thing about the Internets is inherently the very worst as well.
The scary part is that it is starting to spill over to "real" life. You get a bunch of internet educated people who just assume they know more than you because they read it on a blog.

Had a guy that got pissed at us for not using the runway lights one foggy morning for takeoff (we have strict criteria to be able to depart, and we easily met them) and we had to finally not so politely explain to him that between the 2 of us, we had 50 years of flying experience and over 20,000 hours flying all over the place. He STILL didn't like it. Granted, its a tiny cross section of the population, but I bet healthcare professionals run into it all the time with sites like WebMD.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, as they say.
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