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Clicking boost solenoid & running lean

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    #46
    Originally posted by Raf99 View Post
    Well firstly, ToyCar, I want to thank you for your help.
    Secondly, I think I fixed the car!!

    Got a new engine temperature sensor for the car and the readings when testing it in a boiling pan of water were not too far off from the old one but they
    On a side note. Assuming it was the ECT Sensor, I still have no idea of the relationship between the car catching the idle at a stop sign and why this sensor would affect the car for that scenario. I do know as the car got hotter the issue got worse.


    cold engines run at a higher rpm for quick warm up.


    why was this happening? ecu disagrees on engine temp because of faulty readout from coolant temps.


    no throttle and the ecu defaults to open loop.

    open loop and cold temps detected, ecu automatically tells engine to run higher rpm through fia or rotary valve. intake air Temps not corresponding with engine coolant Temps = your problem.

    when you revert to open loop, cold start conditions(no throttle) apply if the coolant (car) isn't warmed up yet.


    why did it go away over time? Ltft relearned how to operate with good coolant temp readouts. first cycle, it does what it did last time. over time, the ecu automatically adjusts and realligns with defined parameters within the ecus tune.


    hope that helps..that's a short version of a fairly complex, long answer
    Originally posted by wed3k
    im a douchebag to people and i don't even own a lambo. whats your point? we, douchbags, come in all sorts of shapes and colours.

    Comment


      #47
      I see what you are saying. The ECU would of thought the car was hotter than it was, but I would think the ECU would learn to correct this or not reduce fuel/o2 till the point of stalling at idle. I can see if it was entering a closed loop and taking the ECT into consideration and expecting something else. I just figured it would learn to correct for the problem. Maybe there's only so much correcting it can do?

      Comment


        #48
        Originally posted by Raf99 View Post
        Maybe there's only so much correcting it can do?
        this is the long answer short.


        stft and ltft basically define the limits of how much correcting can be done..
        Originally posted by wed3k
        im a douchebag to people and i don't even own a lambo. whats your point? we, douchbags, come in all sorts of shapes and colours.

        Comment


          #49
          Originally posted by toycar View Post
          this is the long answer short.


          stft and ltft basically define the limits of how much correcting can be done..

          Well all I can say is I have a lot to learn, and Thank You

          Comment


            #50
            Well that didn't last long. Took her for a drive and blew some intercooler piping apart, no big deal. But on the way back something happened where it was running so lean it sounded like a tractor. Lean when driving, lean on idle. So lean it quit running and I coasted home. It was popping and bucking and just not happy at all!!!

            I got home and let it cool down. Checked the voltage on the battery and it was good. Fixed the piping and started the car. Started no problem but still sounded like a tractor. Dam A/F was 17+, super rich! And will not come back down now, so......... ya. But I'm kind of happy that it broke 100%, as it will be easier to find out what the problem is now, i hope.

            Comment


              #51
              Originally posted by Raf99 View Post
              Well that didn't last long. Took her for a drive and blew some intercooler piping apart, no big deal. But on the way back something happened where it was running so lean it sounded like a tractor. Lean when driving, lean on idle. So lean it quit running and I coasted home. It was popping and bucking and just not happy at all!!!

              I got home and let it cool down. Checked the voltage on the battery and it was good. Fixed the piping and started the car. Started no problem but still sounded like a tractor. Dam A/F was 17+, super rich! And will not come back down now, so......... ya. But I'm kind of happy that it broke 100%, as it will be easier to find out what the problem is now, i hope.
              look into fuek pressure and vac line/vac leak



              boost spiked from a vac leak most likely and blew off charge pipes. leak down test will probably show the problem
              Originally posted by wed3k
              im a douchebag to people and i don't even own a lambo. whats your point? we, douchbags, come in all sorts of shapes and colours.

              Comment


                #52
                Originally posted by Raf99 View Post
                Well that didn't last long. Took her for a drive and blew some intercooler piping apart, no big deal. But on the way back something happened where it was running so lean it sounded like a tractor. Lean when driving, lean on idle. So lean it quit running and I coasted home. It was popping and bucking and just not happy at all!!!

                I got home and let it cool down. Checked the voltage on the battery and it was good. Fixed the piping and started the car. Started no problem but still sounded like a tractor. Dam A/F was 17+, super rich! And will not come back down now, so......... ya. But I'm kind of happy that it broke 100%, as it will be easier to find out what the problem is now, i hope.
                17+ AFR is super LEAN not rich, but like Toycar said i would check for a vacuum leak. a easy way to find it is with a smoke machine(seen this on youtube) and it will come out of anywhere its not sealed

                Comment


                  #53
                  Originally posted by 93redcb7 View Post
                  17+ AFR is super LEAN not rich, but like Toycar said i would check for a vacuum leak. a easy way to find it is with a smoke machine(seen this on youtube) and it will come out of anywhere its not sealed
                  ya, sorry i mean to say lean. I think i'm going to test the O2 sensor first. This would have to be a huge vacuum leak I would think. But at least now the issue is always present and i should be able to find the elephant in the room.

                  Does anyone know if the O2 that came with the AEM A/F is just a normal O2 sensor / can it e replaced with an OEM one?
                  Last edited by Raf99; 11-13-2016, 10:16 AM.

                  Comment


                    #54
                    Originally posted by Raf99 View Post
                    ya, sorry i mean to say lean. I think i'm going to test the O2 sensor first. This would have to be a huge vacuum leak I would think. But at least now the issue is always present and i should be able to find the elephant in the room.

                    Does anyone know if the O2 that came with the AEM A/F is just a normal O2 sensor / can it e replaced with an OEM one?
                    most likely wouldnt have blown a coupler off a charge pip without a vac leak. vac is how the wg opens and closes. no vac, wg no open, pressure skyrockets and charge pipes blow off.

                    vac leak also explains fuel issue, through the regulator or through the MAP sensor


                    my opinion, vac leak caused boost spike which caused charge pipes to blow off. vac leak still exists, fuel pressure isnt adequate because of that = lean like a tractor.


                    or, map sensor isnt reading proper pressure, still vac issue, so ecu isnt delivering fuel.


                    either way, vac leak -> boost spike -> charge pipes blowing loose from excessive pressure
                    Originally posted by wed3k
                    im a douchebag to people and i don't even own a lambo. whats your point? we, douchbags, come in all sorts of shapes and colours.

                    Comment


                      #55
                      Originally posted by Raf99 View Post
                      ya, sorry i mean to say lean. I think i'm going to test the O2 sensor first. This would have to be a huge vacuum leak I would think. But at least now the issue is always present and i should be able to find the elephant in the room.

                      Does anyone know if the O2 that came with the AEM A/F is just a normal O2 sensor / can it e replaced with an OEM one?
                      yes just a tiny bit of vacuum leak can cause it, i had a cap off nipple on an intake once that had a small crack in it, and it cause it to run like complete crap.
                      but im pretty sure the aem o2 has to be replaced with an aem one. there should be a part number on the o2

                      Comment


                        #56
                        This vac leak, it would have to be after the MAP sensor?

                        Comment


                          #57
                          Originally posted by Raf99 View Post
                          This vac leak, it would have to be after the MAP sensor?
                          nope. vac leak is a vac leak.


                          any vac leak will drastically impact performance on a turbo charged car. vac leak = WG not getting accurate vac = not opening WG when the desired pressure is being made = boost spike = blowing off charge pipes


                          vac leak could also influence fuel delivery if MAP sensor is getting improper pressure estimates or if the fuel regulator isnt getting appropriate vac.


                          put car symptoms + known facts about how vac affects fuel and pressure = all signs point to vac leak
                          Originally posted by wed3k
                          im a douchebag to people and i don't even own a lambo. whats your point? we, douchbags, come in all sorts of shapes and colours.

                          Comment


                            #58
                            Originally posted by Raf99 View Post
                            ya, sorry i mean to say lean. I think i'm going to test the O2 sensor first. This would have to be a huge vacuum leak I would think. But at least now the issue is always present and i should be able to find the elephant in the room.

                            Does anyone know if the O2 that came with the AEM A/F is just a normal O2 sensor / can it e replaced with an OEM one?
                            The AEM gauge/sensor is a wideband O2 and cannot be replaced with an OEM one. You may need to check your connection because it defaults to max lean when there is a bad connection. I doubt the sensor is bad.

                            Originally posted by Raf99 View Post
                            Well that didn't last long. Took her for a drive and blew some intercooler piping apart, no big deal. But on the way back something happened where it was running so lean it sounded like a tractor. Lean when driving, lean on idle. So lean it quit running and I coasted home. It was popping and bucking and just not happy at all!!!

                            I got home and let it cool down. Checked the voltage on the battery and it was good. Fixed the piping and started the car. Started no problem but still sounded like a tractor. Dam A/F was 17+, super rich! And will not come back down now, so......... ya. But I'm kind of happy that it broke 100%, as it will be easier to find out what the problem is now, i hope.
                            What MAP sensor are you using?

                            Also TOYCAR- a vacuum leak and control of boost is two different things. Yes you are correct in saying that a boost leak can cause fluctuation in boost pressure but unless it is a gross leak its likely not going to cause boost pipes to pop off. Where you are wrong is calling it vacuum since the system under boost is under pressure, not vacuum.

                            My Wiretuck/ Insane engine bay
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                            People can hate all they want, my f22 is faster than yours.
                            I have literally been on this site for 10 years, I know what i am talking about!
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                            Comment


                              #59
                              Originally posted by turbo90accord View Post
                              The AEM gauge/sensor is a wideband O2 and cannot be replaced with an OEM one. You may need to check your connection because it defaults to max lean when there is a bad connection. I doubt the sensor is bad.



                              What MAP sensor are you using?

                              Also TOYCAR- a vacuum leak and control of boost is two different things. Yes you are correct in saying that a boost leak can cause fluctuation in boost pressure but unless it is a gross leak its likely not going to cause boost pipes to pop off. Where you are wrong is calling it vacuum since the system under boost is under pressure, not vacuum.
                              i get where you are taking the word vac so literally. just my terminology i guess. im no pro, just experienced. i dont really think i used the word vacuum the way you are implying though.

                              anyways, bad map sensor didnt cause the pipes to blow off thats for sure

                              i could see it being a connection issue, but i also think vac leak is likely. map sensor cannot blow the pipes off.

                              vac issue is most likely responsible for a boost spike, which is probably what blew the pipe off

                              if the vac issue is bad enough it will for sure it will impact your fuel delivery. im curious to see how this all works out
                              Last edited by toycar; 11-15-2016, 08:28 PM.
                              Originally posted by wed3k
                              im a douchebag to people and i don't even own a lambo. whats your point? we, douchbags, come in all sorts of shapes and colours.

                              Comment


                                #60
                                Using a GM 3bar map sensor. I've always had pipes blow off on this car, but i will admit the pipe that came off has never blown off before. So numerous items happened on the last drive:

                                - Mishimoto rad cap let coolant spit all over the place. Always happens, those rad caps suck. I think the locking tabs are too thin and bend.
                                - Intercooler piping came un-done. Not the first time
                                - Lean conditions while driving. This is a first as the issue prior was it happening at idle only (closed loop). This is why I was going to start with the O2 sensor (open loop).
                                - When it stalled on the way home and I was coasting it home i had no electical, 4 way flashers, windows etc. Like a dead battery.

                                Got it home, let it cool down a bit.
                                - Tested battery for voltage, was fine!
                                - Looked around the engine bay, all looked fine.
                                - Got in the car, started it and it started sluggish which is new.
                                - A/F pegged at 16+ no matter what now. Revving or at idle makes no difference
                                - No sounds of air leaks, etc.

                                As of now I parked it and I'm still pissed off at it. I have no car friends so this thread and google is all I got. I may tackle it this weekend and see what I can figure out; hook it up to hondata and get some graphs.

                                But I appreciate the feedback folks!

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