Announcement

Collapse
1 of 2 < >

ANY BUYING/SELLING IN THIS FORUM WILL RESULT IN AN INSTANT BAN!

Read the rules: http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=43956

Myself, and the other mods have been very nice and lenient with the rules. We have been deleting threads, and giving out warnings. Some members didn't get the clue and re-posted over and over... Now ANY member buying or selling in this section will be banned... No IF's AND's or BUT's.
2 of 2 < >

Beginner Forum Rules - EVERYBODY read! (old and new members alike!)

Beginners start here. Once you have 30 worthwhile posts (off topic doesn't count) you may post outside of the Beginner forums. Any "whoring" (posting simply to raise your post count) will return your count to 0, or result in a ban.

These are the rules. Read them. Live by them.

1) Absolutely NO flaming! "Flaming" is an outright attack on a member. ALL questions are encouraged to be asked here, no matter how basic. Members with over 30 posts will be subject to a ONE WEEK ban if caught flaming in this forum (and yes, moderators can read deleted posts). Members with under 30 posts will be subject to a ONE DAY ban.

2) Use appropriate language. Racial or sexual slurs will not be tolerated. A ban will be issued at the discretion of the cb7tuner.com staff.

3) No items may be sold in the Beginner forums. Any "for sale" threads will be deleted.

4) Temporarily banned members will be PERMANTLY banned if they are found posting on another account.

The rules can and will be added to. Any updates will be marked in the title.

The rules for the overall forum can be found here:
http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/forumdisplay.php?f=144
Read them. You will be expected to follow them.
See more
See less

F22a block f22b vtec sohc head???

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    F22a block f22b vtec sohc head???

    Hey guys I'm not sure if this has been answeres before but wondering if the f22b vtec sohc head would be a straight swap onto the f22a block and would you have tto run a different ecu or can you run it with the f22a ecu?

    #2
    Did you bother searching to see if maybe it had been answered before? (because it has.)

    Yes, it can be done with minor modifications. No, you cannot use the F22A's ECU, because you need an ECU that will work with VTEC. It will run with the F22A's ECU, but you won't have VTEC.

    HOWEVER, the F22A head is much better suited to performance than the F22B1 head. The F22B1 head flows like crap, and the VTEC system works on the intake valves only. It is not a performance oriented version of VTEC. Doing such a headswap would be a downgrade. Wasted effort.






    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by deevergote View Post
      Did you bother searching to see if maybe it had been answered before? (because it has.)

      Yes, it can be done with minor modifications. No, you cannot use the F22A's ECU, because you need an ECU that will work with VTEC. It will run with the F22A's ECU, but you won't have VTEC.

      HOWEVER, the F22A head is much better suited to performance than the F22B1 head. The F22B1 head flows like crap, and the VTEC system works on the intake valves only. It is not a performance oriented version of VTEC. Doing such a headswap would be a downgrade. Wasted effort.

      yeh i looked for it i couldn't find it sorry man i know this would have been asked 100 times sorry to be annoying ive asked and looked on so many honda forums, i keep getting different answers, my main goal is i want to go turbo, io have a f22a1, i know there great for turboing because of the iron sleeves they can hold boost well up to 10psi, but i also got told the have terrible flowing heads? and the f22b head was much better flowing? is this wrong info?

      Comment


        #4
        That is absolutely wrong. The F22A is one of the best flowing heads Honda has ever made, especially when you open up the exhaust ports a bit. Bisimoto's naturally aspirated race engine is an F22A. It makes over 450hp.
        The F22B1 head has cramped ports, a poor valve angle, and that cumbersome and useless VTEC system. SOHC VTEC is garbage on the F series engines, at least when it comes to performance. The system was implemented for 2 reasons: 1) fuel economy, and 2) to make people say "ooh, that car has VTEC! I want to buy it!"

        The whole "this engine is good for turbo because of the iron sleeves" stuff is more bullshit. Yes, it will hold 10psi. But the FRM sleeves in the H22 and H23 will also do that. Apparently, you're getting your information from people that don't actually understand what they're talking about.
        The F22A will hold 10psi or more with a properly sized turbo and a good tune... until the ringlands break. Then you'll need to upgrade the internals (doing so before you go turbo would make life easier...) The internals are not made for turbo, especially in a 20 year old engine.






        Comment


          #5
          ok well that makes life a lot easier, so then with a low budget like i have, the f22a is the best motor out of the f22 series to turbo? i wanted to put a good turbo setup and tune on the stock motor while i very slowly rebuild another f series motor to hold high boost. As long as the stock internals would hold out on low boost for a year id be happy. is 10 psi maybe to much would 6-8 be safer?

          Comment


            #6
            I would stick to lower boost, definitely. Doing a compression and leakdown test on your engine before installing any turbo parts would be wise, just to make sure it's healthy from the start. If it's not... then I'd forgo trying to boost it, and just focus on building the spare. Of course, boosting the stock block is a smart way to gain experience, so you don't do something dumb with the built one and accidentally blow that up! (I've seen it happen...)

            With a properly sized turbo, the rule of thumb is about 10hp per psi... so a 60hp boost over stock will be plenty fun. Just be very careful. Keep an eye on the engine for any signs of failure. Use the proper gauges (boost, oil pressure, etc..), tune it (or have it tuned) very carefully. Read your spark plugs regularly. Check for any type of smoke from the tailpipe (having someone follow you on the highway while you floor it is helpful... most smoking problems happen at WOT before they start to show signs at partial throttle.)






            Comment


              #7
              yeh well thats what i wanted to do, gain some experience on this motor and buy a really low milage one and rebuild it later on, how would i go doing a compression test on my block?(sorry if its in another thread) and is there any other checks i should do before going turbo? ive always serviced my f22a every 5-10xxx kms with good oils and so forth and its very healthy atm, but a compression test would be a good start

              Comment


                #8
                You can take it to a shop, or buy the tool to do the test at your local autoparts store. The tool will come with instructions.






                Comment


                  #9
                  While we're sorta on the topic of mismatching, it's basically confirmed that the f22a head is the bees knees. What about bottom ends? Obviously the 2.3 has a slight displacement advantage as well as larger mains. Besides that, are there any desireable or undesirable differences among f22a vs obd1 b1/2 or obd2 b1/2/f23?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Honestly, when mixing and matching blocks and heads, you have to take bore size and combustion chamber diameter into account (if there is a difference, you'll have a sharp ridge in your combustion chamber, asking for detonation.) You'll also have to take into consideration the stroke and piston dome height, to ensure you don't smack a piston into a valve. Then you have to think about compression and redline... is the bottom end going to be able to rev high enough (safely) to make power with the chosen head? Is the bottom end going to result in extremely low compression, therefore not taking advantage of the head? (Those last two are more important for H22 heads on F series blocks.) Also, many headswaps require oil passages to be plugged. I don't know about you, but I'm not a fan of plugging up oil passages for any reason. Oil starvation is rarely the cause of damage to a hybrid motor, but I'm still not comfortable with the idea.

                    Honestly, with F and H series engines, your best bet is to stick with a complete engine. I know the Civic/Integra guys love their B20 VTEC and LS-VTEC... but we don't have anything that's really worth doing like those. There are a handful of F/H hybrids running around that have been going for a very long time (and at least one of them is fully built). Just about ALL of them have been built by people with lots of knowledge and experience. I've seen twice as many fail.
                    My rule of thumb is this: if you have to ask about a headswap, you don't know enough to do it reliably. If you know enough to do it, you don't need to ask "can I do it?". If you know enough to do it, you'll also know what properties of such a hybrid would fit your needs. Personally, I don't see ANY properties of these builds that are appealing.






                    Comment


                      #11
                      So in the most comparable case, f22a head and f22b2 block where basically every dimension is shared (.1cc combustion chamber volume difference from a quick search), there's nothing you would gain by running a generation newer block? I mean, that's not unheard of, look at the heads lol.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        There really are no significant gains. For the amount of work and attention to detail necessary to really make a different block match properly, you could just install aftermarket internals in the original block and end up with a much stronger, much more reliable engine overall.






                        Comment


                          #13
                          well that puts my mind at ease that i'm not really giving anything up by building a spare f22a1. Thanks.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            G
                            2
                            2

                            google it
                            Originally posted by deevergote
                            Just do what PR CB7 said.

                            "I'm Going For Wood" (Clickey Clickey)

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Dammit Oscar...

                              Yeah, google that idiotic combination and read all the things I've had to say about it in the past...






                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X