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    #76
    one thing i have thought about is if the trans and motor spin clockwise, like the k series, wouldn't the tranny have to be on the driver side, like the k series

    if it was on the pass. side then you would have 5 or 6 speeds in reverse
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      #77
      You can tune itb's off TPS and have a compensation table setup up based on air intake temperature. Also, you can use a manometer to get the pressure differential inside the velocity stack. This is what Bisimoto has done.
      There are no black and white suspension answers!!!!!!!!!!!

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        #78
        good to know! Didnt have that the last time I did a setup for a customer.... But then again 90% of my customers use S300 or Neptune....
        '92 h22 CBMRT-->http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=158641

        UNICORNS=donkeys with plungers stuck to their faces...

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          #79
          Originally posted by h22cb719 View Post
          good to know! Didnt have that the last time I did a setup for a customer.... But then again 90% of my customers use S300 or Neptune....
          90% of everyone seems to use crap like that...people don't realize how much a good EMS can really help. Not only in power production, but things like launch control, traction control, throttle response, fuel economy, boost and nitrous control, etc.
          There are no black and white suspension answers!!!!!!!!!!!

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            #80
            Originally posted by h22cb719 View Post
            I may have had a minor epihpony(sp?) here:

            ok, say you do decide to swap the head and crank, following the JTCC idea of getting the engine turning clockwise rather than counter-clockwise as origionally designed, wouldnt it be relatively simple/feasible to make a HtoK setup with a spacer, plate, and mounts similar to that of an H2B kit?

            Think about it, with the amount of fabrication necessary for it to work, it just seems like thatd be a viable solution. You'd be able to run a new-tech trans already proven beefy enough to handle the power, and also have the option of a 6-speed LSD from the factory....

            Even with the little things like the electronic speed sensors found with the 06+ 6-speeds, it'd still be feasible when you take into account the engine management you'd be using in order to get it functioning and properly tuned.....

            As far as the ignition system:

            Check this out: http://www.t1racedevelopment.com/t1cam.html Granted its B-series from the link, but Im sure it could be modded to fit an H, given its all the same style, basically...


            Basically, it turns your cam gears into a type of hall-effect sensor, where the feed reads from teh cam gear and tells the EMS crank position/etc, which is how the EMS decides which cylinder to send spark to. A buddy of mine ran this on his Civic with Autronic EMS and was extremely pleased with the results....

            Now, say you dont want to dump the money into pulling the head-flip off without a major HP increase. Id think you'd be able to give Mahle a ring and have a custom set of FRP slugs forged and cut for the setup..... Or do as most others and re-sleeve the block, go from there.....?

            With the cost it would take to do it and do it effectively, might as well think outside the box, right?


            On another note, anyone actually owned a ITB setup car? There is a reason you dont see them around much; dependability/reliability. If you live anywhere that isnt absolutely beautiful year round, or unnaffected by the change in the seasons it'd definately be more feasible. On my experiences here in CO, theyre extremely finicky, and for one main reason:

            No more MAP sensor; no way for the computer to adjust fuel trims/etc based off of the MAP readings the ECM sees.....because its not there anymore....

            Thats why, 90% of the time cars you see with ITBs arent DD's, theyre show/track/trailor queens. ITB's are worth the $ for the performance gained, but for driveability/reliability/etc, Id think a custom manifold would be in order.....and it could be done fairly easily with a lil sheetmetal fabwork.....


            .....that is all.....carry on.....
            I really didn't even think about a K series trans. It would probably take a bit of development, but an H to K adapter would definitely be a realistic possibility.

            From reading, it sounds as if the EMS is similar in function to the EPM. Either way that type of setup seems very practical when you can't use the stock distributor.

            I haven't seen a ton of ITB setups, but I don't really take seasons and such into consideration since I live in FL. I didn't think about other climates, but it would definitely be a factor to consider. I like the custom manifold idea though, especially since it could still work on a regular H swap and applications like this one.

            Originally posted by quaidum View Post
            one thing i have thought about is if the trans and motor spin clockwise, like the k series, wouldn't the tranny have to be on the driver side, like the k series

            if it was on the pass. side then you would have 5 or 6 speeds in reverse
            I think that's the case, but if people can swap K series in I don't see why it couldn't be possible to use the same method to turn the H series around.

            Idea:
            If you're turning the H around to use the K series trans, wouldn't that in effect put the intake inboard again? So instead of doing the whole head swap, just leave the H as it is, make an H to K adapter, reverse the engines rotation and end up having essentially the same type of setup with the intake towards the front of the car?

            I'm a little turned around with how the engine with reverse rotation would hook up to a K series trans so if I'm figuring wrong then it's just me being severely confused.

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              #81
              Deleted.
              Last edited by hahaha38; 10-15-2010, 02:42 AM.
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                #82
                This may be great for competition use such as JGTC, but for the average street driven tuner car...it's completely pointless and far more headache then it's worth.

                Just my .02

                -Kyle
                SOHC Non-VTEC F-series for life

                "It is the fools prerogative to utter truths that no one else will speak."
                -Morpheus (The Sandman)

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                  #83
                  Wait, so it did the H22A in the JTCC Accord have the the head reversed relative to the block in addition to being switched from counter clock-wise to clock-wise rotation, the latter being to work with the x-trac transmission?

                  Edit: and I thought the point of reversing the head was to move the motor back and make it a mid-engined entry.
                  Last edited by James Matteu; 10-15-2010, 04:09 PM.
                  1997 Honda Accord EX-V6:
                  C27A4 - 2.7-liter 90ş-V6 with SOHC, 24-valves, PGM-Fi
                  MPZA - Electronically controlled 4-speed automatic, 1 reverse
                  ~170 cu. in. / ~170 ft. lbs. / ~170 whp

                  Originally posted by James Matteu
                  You have to consider the results of your test in an objective manner, or as the country folk like to say, "son, you gotta be smarter than what you're workin' with."

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                    #84
                    Originally posted by James Matteu View Post
                    Wait, so it did the H22A in the JTCC Accord have the the head reversed relative to the block in addition to being switched from counter clock-wise to clock-wise rotation, the latter being to work with the x-trac transmission?

                    Edit: and I thought the point of reversing the head was to move the motor back and make it a mid-engined entry.
                    Yes to the first question. I have no clue as to your other one.

                    Comment


                      #85
                      ya know i was sitting here thinking, and as STUPID as i still think it is....



                      this would make for a SERIOUS nitrous motor... that would be nice....


                      im thinking now....
                      Last edited by cb7_with_snail; 10-15-2010, 04:48 PM.

                      Comment


                        #86
                        Originally posted by mndude07 View Post
                        90% of everyone seems to use crap like that...people don't realize how much a good EMS can really help. Not only in power production, but things like launch control, traction control, throttle response, fuel economy, boost and nitrous control, etc.
                        crap?? Just an FYI buddy, Neptune is not crap, nor is S300. Both are affordable, reliable, and make damn good power for the cost, especially with a tuner that knows what they're doing.... Neptune also now has traction control, boost control, boost by gear, etc, and has HAD launch control, complete with antilag since the second gen RTP boards came out in 2005/6.

                        Good EMS is in the eye of the beholder. It all depends on what you are trying to do with your setup, your ultimate goals, your power needs, and your setups needs/tuners abilities. Running autronic or similar off-the-wall EMS on a DD'd street car with an E*** turbo-kit is uber-dumb and unnecessary, especially considering how much the system costs, how much each of the sensors needed costs, and the amount of time needed to fab the ENTIRE vehicle harness to accomodate the EMS.

                        Neptune RTP/Hondata S300 are around and are so comomon because they work, and work damn well, are affordable, and easy to use. Not to mention, for your average joe/street "warrior", they are completely capable of producing safe, reliable, high-HP, impressive tunes, all the while saving your pocket from a lil abuse.

                        I love my Neptune, and until Im attempting to make 800+ HP, Ill stick with it, thanks.

                        If you'd like more info on the tuning capabilities of Neptune, take a look at www.serviontuning.com

                        He is our local tuner, and his numbers and track record speaks for themselves.
                        '92 h22 CBMRT-->http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=158641

                        UNICORNS=donkeys with plungers stuck to their faces...

                        Comment


                          #87
                          Originally posted by h22cb719 View Post
                          crap?? Just an FYI buddy, Neptune is not crap, nor is S300. Both are affordable, reliable, and make damn good power for the cost, especially with a tuner that knows what they're doing.... Neptune also now has traction control, boost control, boost by gear, etc, and has HAD launch control, complete with antilag since the second gen RTP boards came out in 2005/6.

                          Good EMS is in the eye of the beholder. It all depends on what you are trying to do with your setup, your ultimate goals, your power needs, and your setups needs/tuners abilities. Running autronic or similar off-the-wall EMS on a DD'd street car with an E*** turbo-kit is uber-dumb and unnecessary, especially considering how much the system costs, how much each of the sensors needed costs, and the amount of time needed to fab the ENTIRE vehicle harness to accomodate the EMS.

                          Neptune RTP/Hondata S300 are around and are so comomon because they work, and work damn well, are affordable, and easy to use. Not to mention, for your average joe/street "warrior", they are completely capable of producing safe, reliable, high-HP, impressive tunes, all the while saving your pocket from a lil abuse.

                          I love my Neptune, and until Im attempting to make 800+ HP, Ill stick with it, thanks.

                          If you'd like more info on the tuning capabilities of Neptune, take a look at www.serviontuning.com

                          He is our local tuner, and his numbers and track record speaks for themselves.
                          if you have ever worked with a legit standalone like motec or AEM, you'll agree that neptune, hondata, and chrome (especially) are crap by comparison. now i admit that they definitely have their place especially with DIY and low-budget builds, and there are some great cars with those systems. and yes, they are great for the "average joe/street warrior," but you will not find anyone in the high-end of any motorsport that runs a stock chipped ECU with an aftermarket tune.

                          I myself will be running chrome on my h22 for a while, however as soon as i start getting more serious with it i'll be switching over to AEM EMS v2 and when i build my all-out scratch built race car, nothing but motec will be put into it.

                          you can literally do anything you want with motec. if you have a sequential or dog-box transmission and want a fuel cut when you're shifting so you dont have to let go of the gas, its just a little bit of programming. you want to run datalogging on several engine sensors, shock travel on all 4 corners, and pyrometers to measure tire temps ? it will spit out easy-to-read graphs with the push of a button at the end of each track session. want to run a drive-by-wire turbocharged direct injection motor with an electronic exhaust cutout that opens at a certain RPM and progressive nitrous injection? done. want to run a kinsler ITB setup with the secondary injectors squirting right into the velocity stacks? thats a standard feature on every motec system. can hondata or neptune do any of that, let alone all at the same time?

                          also, from what i've heard from a guy that has used most of these systems, the software for AEM is way easier to use than any of the chip companies,' and motec is even better than that.

                          cliff notes:
                          hondata, chrome, and neptune-good for the average street-driven modified car.
                          Motec and AEM EMS-orders of magnitude better. they offer MUCH more flexibility and user friendly-ness

                          edit: about the wiring, a jumper is easily made to go straight from the stock ECU connectors to any aftermarket ECU. it would only be a pain in the ass if you wanted to re-wire the car to get rid of unnecessary wires and run the ones you keep in a more logical way. if done right it is very easy (depending on skill level of course).
                          Last edited by steelbluesleepR; 10-19-2010, 12:33 PM.

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                            #88
                            Why is everyone saying the engine spinning direction has to be reversed. It should still be counterclockwise. If it spins clockwise then the tranny input shaft will be spinning in reverse. keep in mind that the block is not turned around so it uses the same tranny, same direction.
                            Anyway my input is that most thinfgs from the racing world are beneficial to the street world and this one definately is.

                            Not only does it lower intake temps but it lowers oil temperature. This is why they made the k-series, due to these benefits. Only difference is an entire K series motor and tranny is reversed in thto the engine bay. Its basically an h or f series turned around.

                            Just look at what the JGTC and JTCC accord can do to skylines GT-R. Its amazing NA powerband thats constanly running cooler temps allows it to keep up with turbo cars that have more HP.

                            Yes its rediculously hard work to achieve this and in the rcing world, money is no object but I still dont see why this cant be a good closely affordable project for a street car. It will fuck up any K-series.
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                              #89
                              Originally posted by CBAccordA4 View Post
                              Why is everyone saying the engine spinning direction has to be reversed. It should still be counterclockwise. If it spins clockwise then the tranny input shaft will be spinning in reverse. keep in mind that the block is not turned around so it uses the same tranny, same direction.
                              it spins backwards from stock because it doesnt use the stock tranny, this is done to work with the Xtrac sequential box that is designed to spin opposite the h22 normally does.

                              Click for my Member's Ride Thread
                              Originally posted by Stephen Fry
                              'It's now very common to hear people say, "I'm rather offended by that", as if that gives them certain rights. It's no more than a whine. It has no meaning, it has no purpose, it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. "I'm offended by that." Well, so fucking what?' —Stephen Fry
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