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Rev issues at 3000RPM/70MPH: Automatic F22A6

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    Rev issues at 3000RPM/70MPH: Automatic F22A6

    My car has recently been having some issues with my rpm hopping from 3000 to ~3300rpm at 70mph. it should normally be slightly above 3000rpm when I drive 70mph (automatic f22a6), but every so often it goes to 3300, and i believe it gets more airflow (since when it tweaks out like this, i have better acceleration), as if my butterflies are opening up. However, my foot isn't pressing any harder to trigger anything (I've also tested this with my cruise control, i got to 70mph, set cruise, and every so often it would hop, get some power, then it stops and it goes back to normal, which is ~3000rpm @ 70mph).

    Things that I have done while driving to see if I could "fix" it:

    1) let go of the gas to let the computer know i don't need the power, used to work most of the times, but now its 50% success rate.

    2) speed up until 75-80mph til my rpm's drop (butterflies close...?) and let it chill down to 70mph again. 85% success rate, sometimes when its coasting back down rpm's hop back up.

    I will be doing my H23 plenum swap soon, so while i do that I will be planning on cleaning the FITV and IACV valves while i'm in there. What else is attached to the plenum that could possibly need some cleaning? currently looking for cleaning DIYs on the FITV and IACV, i know i saw it before, if anyone can link that bad boy, it would be greatly appreciated.

    Could the inability to return to normal rpms be an issue with the IAB plate? sticky plate perhaps, cleaning needed? or maybe the diaphram that controls the butterflies and that vaccuum line that's linked to it is leaking? (This issue ONLY happens at this speed, ~3000rpm/70mph) Or is it possible that the black box needs to be replaced? (if this is the case, can someone describe to me what the black box is?)

    If anyone knows or has experienced what I am asking about, I would love to have your input on this. My car drives great 90% of the time, except for this unfortunate flaw that has progressively gotten slightly worse since last year. It used to have rpm issues, but i believe my dad solved that, and it worked for a year and a half (he probably did something with the FITV/IACV as well... could it need maintenance this soon?)

    Thank you, and I hope to hear from you soon.

    P5ylance

    and PS: are the H23 IAB plate and the F22A6 IAB plate the same? if so, i have an h23 IAB plate that i could possibly try out, or would you recommend staying with my a6 IAB plate since its been working for so long? I might do the latter, but I would like to know if they are the same.
    blackROSE Member, with a focus on VIP Style

    #2
    sounds liek it could be lock up.
    I <3 G60.

    0.5mm Oversized Stainless valves and bronze guides available. Pm me please.

    Comment


      #3
      lock up with the IAB plate? I was thinking it might have something to do with the IAB stuff and all related things... since the car warms up and idles perfectly fine, no issues at stops, which is what the FITV and IACV are usually looked into when that situation occurs.

      EDIT: except for a few days ago. where my car felt like it was choking on itself when i tried to start it. l think i had a little bit too much oil in there, so i drained some. it starts fine now, tomorrow will be another test. otherwise, yes it warms up fine, haha

      thanks for replying this soon! i've been driving with it like this for a couple months now, and now its starting to bug me since it is now happening more often, and sometimes it feels like its doing the cha-cha on the freeway, lol
      blackROSE Member, with a focus on VIP Style

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        #4
        lock up for the torque converter.

        the solenoid for the iab's could be failing as well. disconnect the solenoid and see if the problem exists.
        I <3 G60.

        0.5mm Oversized Stainless valves and bronze guides available. Pm me please.

        Comment


          #5
          100% torque converter lockup.

          IAB shouldn't make a difference when you're cruising at low power, and under converter lockup sudden RPM changes shouldn't be possible anyway.

          Comment


            #6
            Or there's a chance it's the TCU. I think the solenoid driver circuits might be a weak point in its design.

            For that matter, fixing the solenoid is extra important because if it's intermittently breaking the connection, that would be hard on the TCU.

            Comment


              #7
              I agree with everyone else that it does sound like torque converter lock-up, which is controlled by the tcu which decides what to do based upon what the ecu has to say, which leads me to other ideas. (You could always change out the tcu with another of the same model and test that way, so you can rule out its the tcu itself)

              How old are your vacuum lines in your car? They are made out of rubber and as they get older they tend to lose rigidity, and when put under vacuum can go from normally being O to o; and that can cause some issues (MAP Sensor, Cruise Control, etc).

              Is your EGR functioning properly? When was the last time the EGR system was cleaned? This issue is happening while "cruising" after all.
              PT3/6 Development Thread | My 1991 LX Coupe | DIY: 90-93 Tcu Fix

              Comment


                #8
                Alright, so I looked up "torque converter" issues, and it seems a few other accords on honda-tech, 4th and 5th gen, had the same issue.

                1) The Torque Converter is what feels like another shift, right? on full throttle it engages at ~50-55mph for me

                2) and a failing TC would unlock and lock, causing that 2-300rpm change at the same speed? (test speed: 70mph)

                3)Possible things to check:

                - TCU (trade with a friend with the same car and see if problem persists? it's hard to get this plan set up since it's my friend's mom's accord, haha)
                ~where in general is the TCU?

                - Torque Converter (rough cost... $175???)

                - Vaccuum lines (I thought it might've been my vacuum lines as well, but after researching TCs, it seems more likely to be a TC/TCU situation. my lines are still quite supple, not brittle at all, but I will check for cracks again) you can get vacuum lines from any auto parts store, right?

                - EGR. In my history with the car I have no recollection of the EGR system being serviced, but while my sister had it i don't know if my dad ever went into that. I don't have any issues with rough idle at all though (for the past year and a half it's warmed up calmly and smoothly) and acceleration is equal to/quicker than my friend's Accord EX SEDAN, with roughly 136,000mi. I was gonna wait for the time when my motor gives up, and I'd have a chance to take off my IM and get it all properly cleaned up before i swapped it onto a younger F... so i hope it's not my EGR system, haha cuz that is a lot of downtime (for me, plus i have no garage, it's like a storage room now.) for my car. :[ DD.

                Is it something urgent that needs to be fixed, or can it go like this for a while? I don't have much money right now, depending on how much this repair is going to cost.

                Tomorrow when I drive my car again, I will do a few tests and let you know how the drive goes, just to keep getting more information to diagnose (shift points, when the TC engages at wide open throttle at diffferent speeds *now that I know what that "shift" is)

                Is there anything in particular I should keep in mind to analyze while i'm driving/testing?

                Thanks a lot to everyone that responded, that really helped me out and got my mind calmer since now i know what it could possibly be.

                PS: on my way home, my car drove fine for a good 14 minutes on the freeway before the situation started happening, and it only happened 3 times this time. i used both cruise control and manually pressing the pedal. in the city my car drives like a beauty, acceleration is spot-on and everything drives great...*lightbulb* so thats at speeds <45/50mph... and this only happens on the freeway at speeds greater than 60/65mph, so...

                (among other things) it's either my torque converter, or my TEE SEE YOUUUUUUUU!!!! SOULJA BOY TELL'EM!
                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti-jCeIWE-8

                ^hahaha, every time i think "TCU" or "ECU" I gotta pronounce that U.
                Last edited by P5ylance; 07-24-2010, 11:07 PM.
                blackROSE Member, with a focus on VIP Style

                Comment


                  #9
                  Wow, I'm not reading all that.

                  The torque converter is a major component of the transmission. Some early (and cheap) automatics from the 1950's consisted of just a torque converter. It replaces some of the functionality of a clutch: it allows the car to start from a standstill, and it is what causes the RPMs to vary a little with the gas, not just the speed like when you drive a manual.

                  The torque converter is bulletproof and it isn't failing. If it were, you wouldn't start from a standstill.

                  Since the torque converter is inefficient, there is a lockup mechanism which turns it into a solid block at highway speeds when you aren't converting much torque anyway. This depends on the TCU working with various sensors and activating the lockup solenoid. The lockup is the extra shift. What you feel is the TC turning *off*.

                  Unbolt your lockup solenoid, the pair of little metal can thingies on the front of the transmission, clean it, and don't worry about anything else until that's done.
                  Last edited by Potatoswatter; 07-25-2010, 12:13 AM.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    lol, yeah, sorry about that. kinda winded there.

                    k thanks a lot for the pointer, appreciate it! I'll get on that ASAP.
                    blackROSE Member, with a focus on VIP Style

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