CB7Tuner Forums

Go Back   CB7Tuner Forums > Beginner forum -- New members post here! > Beginner Technical/Performance

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 10-16-2014, 01:10 AM   #1
cvargas0003
Newcomer
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 9
cvargas0003 is cool... so far.
grinding noise/ hard to shift/ 1-3 gear whine

This all has started after i got a used new f22a4 engine, lighten flywheel and new clucth. When after all of that my car ran great for about a week but but for the last couple weeks the problems are getting worse. When I start my car (cold mostly..) I hear a loud grinding noise that most of the time will grind for a second then stop for a second and keep going on like that till I drive for a little or push the clutch it. Recently mya car started to make a quieter but continuous grind until I push the clucth it and this happens even when warm or I stop at a light and can hear it. Idk if it has anything to do with it but my car has a quick squicks on start up and has once quicked while I was stopped at a light starting to accelerate again.
My car also whines up until i get into 4th gear, 3rd being the worst. I can put it in natural in 3rd gear speeds and the noise will go away but when i go back into gear it whines again.
Lastly my car has gotten really hard to get into gears. It has its good and bad days but aleays has a problem with getting in gears. Here's how I can explain it. Say you're going into first, there's inistionaly two little clicks/bumb you feel I guess, and when you get past the first click/bumb you feel a second and thats how you know your cars in gear. Well mine doesn't want to get past the first bumb. (Idk to much about clutches and tranys so hopefuly you understood what i ment and im writing this on my phone so hope my mistakes arent to bad)
cvargas0003 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2014, 01:13 AM   #2
H311RA151N
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Out
Posts: 2,431
H311RA151N seems to have made some friends! H311RA151N seems to have made some friends!
Are you using the same transmission as before just a different engine?

Did you install it yourself or did you have a shop do it?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by gloryaccordy View Post
Holy fuck, it's the weekend man.
H311RA151N is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2014, 01:24 AM   #3
cvargas0003
Newcomer
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 9
cvargas0003 is cool... so far.
Yeah same tranny and it was a friend/backyard mechanic who deals with hondas
cvargas0003 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2014, 01:34 AM   #4
H311RA151N
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Out
Posts: 2,431
H311RA151N seems to have made some friends! H311RA151N seems to have made some friends!
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvargas0003 View Post
Yeah same tranny and it was a friend/backyard mechanic who deals with hondas
Stupid question, but did they put fluid back in it once it was re-installed? If so what fluid?

Not many times do these transmissions fail. But that sounds exactly like what happened to yours. Hard to get into gear, whining in gears, grinding, all the signs of a pissed off transmission. And it's awful odd that it just did that after being put back in.

The 5 speed transmissions are tough enough that it's safe to say the symptoms you are having are no coincidence with the engine just being replaced.

My transmission has over 380,000 miles on it and it shifts flawlessly. It probably has over 100 clutch dumps under it's belt as well.

Something happened during the engine change.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by gloryaccordy View Post
Holy fuck, it's the weekend man.

Last edited by H311RA151N; 10-16-2014 at 02:22 AM.
H311RA151N is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2014, 01:46 AM   #5
cvargas0003
Newcomer
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 9
cvargas0003 is cool... so far.
Honestly I dont know what transmission fluid.. if he even did add any.. haha I probably sound stupid for not knowing.

I have 280,000 on my tranny and do you think the flywheel has anything to do with it? Very rarely but some time even when the clucth it pushed in It has thay on and off grinding/ crunching sound

I appreciate the help
cvargas0003 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2014, 01:57 AM   #6
H311RA151N
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Out
Posts: 2,431
H311RA151N seems to have made some friends! H311RA151N seems to have made some friends!
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvargas0003 View Post
Honestly I dont know what transmission fluid.. if he even did add any.. haha I probably sound stupid for not knowing.

I have 280,000 on my tranny and do you think the flywheel has anything to do with it? Very rarely but some time even when the clucth it pushed in It has thay on and off grinding/ crunching sound

I appreciate the help
Running one really low or without fluid is about the only way to kill one.

If Honda MTF, GM Syncromesh or even 10w30 motor oil was not used it was not done properly. It should have taken just under 2 quarts.

Ask him about the transmission fluid.

If it stops when you push in the clutch almost all of the time it is not the clutch release bearing as it would continue to make some kind of noise. What your hearing is inside the transmission.

You said you hear crunching when you push in the clutch which does not point to anything clutch or flywheel related.

Regardless of how it happened, you now have to choose how you want to deal with it.

Don't drive it until the fluid is checked and you ask him what he did as far as fluid.

If there is gear oil in it, which we see here quite a bit, drain it and add the proper fluid. See what that does. If it has some super heavy gear oil in it that may cause what your experiencing. But that's pretty doubtful.

If that doesn't help or is not the issue (which is very likely) then it will need to be removed, rebuilt or replaced.

I would replace it.

To help you or whoever is doing it I have a DIY on here that one might find useful. It's for a 5 speed conversion but will work well for a straight remove and replace. http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=204130
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by gloryaccordy View Post
Holy fuck, it's the weekend man.

Last edited by H311RA151N; 10-16-2014 at 02:07 AM.
H311RA151N is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2014, 02:11 AM   #7
cvargas0003
Newcomer
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 9
cvargas0003 is cool... so far.
Awesome feedback I will try to check everything tomorrow and let you know
cvargas0003 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2014, 02:19 AM   #8
H311RA151N
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Out
Posts: 2,431
H311RA151N seems to have made some friends! H311RA151N seems to have made some friends!
Your welcome, best of luck to you.

And welcome to CB7tuner by the way!
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by gloryaccordy View Post
Holy fuck, it's the weekend man.
H311RA151N is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2014, 08:19 AM   #9
deevergote
Don't call me dude.
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Not New York
Posts: 40,174
deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool...
Send a message via AIM to deevergote
Honda did specify plain old motor oil in the manual back then... but advancements have been made in transmission oils. Especially with 20+ years of use, a better fluid is a good idea. GM Synchromesh is my personal preference (I believe it is now sold as AC Delco Synchromesh.)

The only thing that wasn't touched on is the clutch kit you installed. What brand was it? If it was a cheap brand (never a good idea), did you use the throwout bearing that came in the kit? The cheap bearings are known to fail prematurely, often whining before they do. If that bearing fails, your clutch and flywheel will be toast. Damage to the transmission itself is possible as well.

If you used a cheap aftermarket throwout bearing, I strongly recommend changing it out for an OEM Honda bearing (sadly, they're not cheap... $50 or more, I think.)
The only clutch kit I would trust to have a good bearing is one from Exedy. If you got some cheap junk like XTD or F1, that bearing is a potential time bomb.

(edit: I just re-read and saw that H311RA151N did touch on it... by my points are still valid!)
__________________






deevergote is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2014, 10:32 AM   #10
cvargas0003
Newcomer
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 9
cvargas0003 is cool... so far.
I have work and school so I will probably have to wait till tomorrow to check tranny fluid but with the throw out bearing im still curious about, one cold start it will have an on off ( about one second intervoles, sometimes faster) crunching noise untill it is fully warm. Lately its been having a continious (no as loud as the on off crunches) crunch/grinding sound. And when im driving I only hear the whinning up to 3rd gear. 3rd gear is where I really hear it and once I shift into 4th its perfectly quiet. Also I can not get into gear easily anymore. At first it was like butter but now for example if im in first, go into neutral stop then then try and go into natural a lot of the times I have to really force it. Another example is when I try to shift into 4th is doesn't always want to go in. Oh i almost forgot its about thr crunching! When I start It up and its doing the on off crunches 90 percent of the time it will stop but sometimes it will keep crunching but with the continuous crunches/grinds it stop immediately and my car is quiet.
(just restating everything to give more info if I missed any)

(Added: on start up my squicks only a real quick squeal but yesterday when I was stop at a light it started squeaking once i released the clutch in neatural.i couldnt get into gear so i was trying to double clutch)

Last edited by cvargas0003; 10-16-2014 at 10:47 AM.
cvargas0003 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2014, 10:48 AM   #11
ahdiofreak
CB7tuner Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 54
ahdiofreak is cool... so far.
Goodluck! Hopefully your friend didn't ruin your transmission.
ahdiofreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2014, 10:55 AM   #12
deevergote
Don't call me dude.
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Not New York
Posts: 40,174
deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool...
Send a message via AIM to deevergote
cvargas0003, we could probably do a lot more to help you if you were a bit more clear in your posts. You are very difficult to understand. If we can't understand you, there's not much we can do for you.
Take your time, type coherent sentences. Express your thoughts clearly. Re-read what you wrote before you post it.
__________________






deevergote is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2014, 02:42 PM   #13
H311RA151N
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Out
Posts: 2,431
H311RA151N seems to have made some friends! H311RA151N seems to have made some friends!
If it were clutch, clutch release bearing, or flywheel related it would not completely stop making noises in the top two gears. At least that's from my knowledge.

Sounds like the thing is really low or out of fluid.

When my transmission leaked while it was in my other CB I could tell it was getting low because it would be harder to shift and it would be necessary to shift slower, especially into 3rd.

The whining is most likely a dry bearing(s) somewhere. If it's been dry enough to start making noise it's very likely the damage is already done.

I forgot to add that mine has a rather quiet whirling sound when I let out the clutch in neutral. I suppose that's a bearing somewhere inside but it's done it for 20k now. I thought it was the clutch release bearing but during the 5 speed swap I used a new Koyo clutch release bearing and it still does it. Identically as to before.

I know another member on here who thought it would be ok to take the fresh 5 speed swap around the block without any fluid in it. Which, of course, made it whine and it still does it even after he added the fluid. It hasn't failed yet but it damaged something.

I agree with Deev as for using good quality stuff this go around if you did not before.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by gloryaccordy View Post
Holy fuck, it's the weekend man.
H311RA151N is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2014, 06:12 PM   #14
cvargas0003
Newcomer
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 9
cvargas0003 is cool... so far.
Using this forum on my phone is really difficult thats why my writing is so sloppy. Today i was driving up a bridge over the freeway that has a stop light on the top of it. As I was approaching it the light turned green but the cars were still stopped so I put my car in neatural and took my foot off the clutch and coasted on up behind a car. I came to a complete stop and then pushed my clucth in to put my car in gear but the car in front of me still do not move so I let the clutch out and heard a awful noise I have never heard come from my car. It was a high pitched, metal on metal , crunching, squealing, spinning sound all put into one. Immediately after hearing that I pushed the clucth back in and tried to accelerate but I could not get into any gear. I could not get into the initial two clicks you feel when you shift (one being when it goes into the designated gear slot and two being when its firmly and securely in the gear). I released the clutch and pressed it down again and it barley went into gear(I had to really force it). After forcing it into gear i finally could accelerate but my gears were real hard to get into and they just didn't feel right at all.

It takes me 20 minutes to get home. I started up my car and had a continious loud crunch until I pushed the clutch in. the crunching continued all the way to the bridge which was about 10 minutes towards my way home. I could hear the crunching while I was driving home and when i arrived home the cruching stopped i think because all i could hear was a whinning/whisle noise(at home parked in neatural standing outside car))
cvargas0003 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2014, 06:15 PM   #15
deevergote
Don't call me dude.
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Not New York
Posts: 40,174
deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool...
Send a message via AIM to deevergote
Thank you.
Most of us are replying to you on our phones as well. We do appreciate you showing us the same courtesy we show you.
It sounds like your gears may be partially engaged. That could be due to a bent shifter fork, or other internal damage. It could also be due to a poorly functioning cluch. How is your pedal pressure?
__________________






deevergote is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2014, 07:57 PM   #16
cvargas0003
Newcomer
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 9
cvargas0003 is cool... so far.
It used to to down like a feather but now its gotten harder
cvargas0003 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2014, 08:01 PM   #17
H311RA151N
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Out
Posts: 2,431
H311RA151N seems to have made some friends! H311RA151N seems to have made some friends!
"Used to" as in after the engine and clutch being replaced (recently) or as in a comparison to before being replaced?

I'm not convinced it's the clutch. But, I have no experience with using horrible clutches. Just Sachs, other parts store clutches and Exedy.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by gloryaccordy View Post
Holy fuck, it's the weekend man.

Last edited by H311RA151N; 10-16-2014 at 08:03 PM.
H311RA151N is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2014, 10:55 PM   #18
johnl
CB7tuner Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,630
johnl seems to have made some friends!
When the clutch was changed, was the flywheel removed and refitted? If so are you sure the flywheel bolts were properly re-torqued? The flywheel should have been taken off for resurfacing as they are rarely in good enough condition to just fit a new clutch onto.

A loose flywheel can make some awful and erratic noises, and cause shifting problems. I'm far from sure that this is your problem, and some of your descriptions of the problem don't quite fit (but the descriptions aren't all that clear), but a loose flywheel is a potential worst case type of problem. If a flywheel becomes fully detached from the crank then it can cause a great deal of damage because it's a very massive component rotating very fast (even at relatively low rpm). It can also cause a lot of damage even if it doesn't become fully detached.

Just to frighten you, people have been killed by flywheels that become detached at high rpm (say bolt failure or fracturing of the flywheel). The heavy flywheel will rotate non concentrically when it detaches, and then may rip the first motion shaft out of the gearbox, then destroy the bell housing, then erupt through the firewall, then through the driver. This is an extreme failure as might occur at high rpm, more likely on a race track, but...
__________________
Regards from Oz,
John.
johnl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2014, 06:51 AM   #19
deevergote
Don't call me dude.
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Not New York
Posts: 40,174
deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool...
Send a message via AIM to deevergote
At least those of us in the US are safer in that regard... the flywheel would rip through our passenger instead!
I've seen a video of a flywheel being thrown clear out of the car. Fortunately for the person in the video, that flywheel went through the hood... but it was still very eye-opening!
__________________






deevergote is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2014, 11:13 PM   #20
johnl
CB7tuner Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,630
johnl seems to have made some friends!
I believe drag cars are required to be fitted with a very robust steel shield surrounding the bell housing in order to contain errant flywheels (or parts thereof). Even if the flywheel is not in a location to present a significant danger to the driver, there may still be the driver of the other car alongside, and spectators are also at risk. There can be a frighteningly massive amount of kinetic energy in a rapidly rotating flywheel...
__________________
Regards from Oz,
John.
johnl is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
belts , clutch , flywheel , gears , noise

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.