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Replacing head isn't recomended without doing entire engine rebuild.

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    Replacing head isn't recomended without doing entire engine rebuild.

    I have called a couple shops today to inquire about swapping out my head and the couple i spoke to isn't interested in doing it unless i do a complete engine rebuild. THey say just swapping the head will cause more pressure on the bottom end. That's the best explanation they could give me and honestly i don't understand this. Is this true for a f22a engine and can someone elaborate.

    #2
    This is ridiculous. Are you wanting to take the whole car to them, or just a cylinder head? My suggestion would be to buy a cylinder head for cheap, have it rebuilt by a machine shop, then install it yourself. If the shops who you spoke with aren't interested in doing the work, keep trying. Someone will be.

    I would also purchase a new camshaft seal, valve cover seal kit, distributor o-ring and timing belt from Honda to be able to give to the mechanic who works on it.
    My Members' Ride Thread - It's a marathon build, not a sprint. But keep me honest on the update frequency!

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      #3
      Originally posted by Jarrett View Post
      This is ridiculous. Are you wanting to take the whole car to them, or just a cylinder head? My suggestion would be to buy a cylinder head for cheap, have it rebuilt by a machine shop, then install it yourself. If the shops who you spoke with aren't interested in doing the work, keep trying. Someone will be.

      I would also purchase a new camshaft seal, valve cover seal kit, distributor o-ring and timing belt from Honda to be able to give to the mechanic who works on it.
      This is essentially what I did with an SE I rescued. Engine had about 200k on it. Timing belt had broken bending some valves. I took my compression tester to the JY, found a likely candidate, cranked the engine by hand and was able to get 40+ psi on each cylinder so I knew the valves weren't bent. Paid about $70 (including core charge) for the head, disassembled it myself (bought a spring compressor), had a shop clean it, check flatness, and install new valve seals, reassembled and installed it myself. If I was doing it for my own car, I'd have gone with a full valve job.

      How many miles are on this engine that you believe it needs new rings as well (other post)?
      Last edited by Fleetw00d; 01-24-2018, 06:15 PM.
      90 LX 4dr 5 spd 396,014 (sold 1/1/2022) - MRT: http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=201450
      08 Element LX FWD AT 229,000 - MRT: fleetw00d : 2008 Honda Element LX - CB7Tuner Forums

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        #4
        Originally posted by fleetw00d View Post
        How many miles are on this engine that you believe it needs new rings as well (other post)?
        It's got 247k miles. It smokes a tiny bit when acceleration but dies out quickly.I had 2 shops tell me that and that they want nothing to do with it without rebuilding engine. It shocked me actually. One said it would cause more pressure in bottom end of engine and damage rings more. Which i thought was weird saying just let your top end continue to be bad unless u fix both. They sort of operate independently so i have a hard time believing this is true but two shops telling me that made me think. And i still can't understand their reasoning. My compression tests are low but in spec range. So i don't really want to rebuild entire engine. That's 3k give or take(mostly give). I can get a reman head with stud bolts and gaskets for about $360. Labor would be about $450. One place wanted 500 to reman it themselves but i think a business that does reman heads for a living is better and cheaper it seems. So yall think they are yolos because the common customer will alot of times have problems at both bottom and top end and they don't want the after headache. That is good news cause i really don't want to rebuild the whole engine yet. I still go to fix my 5th gear which it seems cheaper to and get a reman tranny for that and install. As places want 700 or more to tear apart tranny and put in shift fork and another 500 to take out and reinstall. I don't like JY engines and trannies. Who knows what you getting. So what yall think.

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          #5
          I recently replaced my cylinder head because of some bent valves and it's been running great. It's got a little over 383K on it now.
          My '91 LX build. Bought September 2017. Sold June 2020.
          http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthre...r /> t=209871
          Current mileage: 399450 5/18/2020

          My '92 LX build. Bought Novemeber 2019. http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthre...91#post3293791
          Current mileage: 422679 11/21/19

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            #6
            Have any of them defined what they mean by "more pressure" at the bottom? The only thing I can think is once they resurface the head it'll bump your static compression by a small margin which wouldn't be a bad thing unless you run into clearance issues. if your rings are going this extra compression will cause a bit more blowby so they may be concerned with that. Also, for these shops that want to do the entire engine, what do they want to do exactly? Most small shops are not set up to deal with FRM sleeves so I doubt they are going to be able to rehone them.

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              #7
              I’ve never had a shop say this and I have tried 4-6 machine shops. If I were you I would pull the head and bring it to them, tell them you want it resurfaced, 3 angle, replace valve stem seals, clean and pressure check the head. It shouldn’t cost more then 320ish max. If you supply the valve stem seals this will probably drop the price.
              ~Nick~
              FSAE (F Series Accord Enthusiasts) ..."A dying breed thats taking it to the next level" Lucky #13
              MR Thread:http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthre...ight=Grumpys93

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                #8
                Originally posted by Bunta View Post
                Most small shops are not set up to deal with FRM sleeves so I doubt they are going to be able to rehone them.
                Only the H series engines and the F20C and F22C both of which come out of the S2000, have FRM sleeves. That and some of the higher end J series engines and the C series V6 had FRM sleeves as well. All of the F series engines though have iron cylinder sleeves. Any machine shop should be able to deal with these.
                MRT: 1993 Honda Accord SE Coupe (Lola)

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by Rilas View Post
                  Only the H series engines and the F20C and F22C both of which come out of the S2000, have FRM sleeves. That and some of the higher end J series engines and the C series V6 had FRM sleeves as well. All of the F series engines though have iron cylinder sleeves. Any machine shop should be able to deal with these.
                  oh yeah, forgot not everyone is H-swapped..

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                    #10
                    crock of shit. Theyre just trying to milk more money from you. If you went along youd probably wait a month and have dropped enough dough for an H swap.

                    I see remanned heads on ebay for 400ish, send back the core and get 50-100 bucks back.. breaking down your head isnt that hard. Youd only really need outside resources for hot tanking.(if y ou have time DIY works also.) Installing seals is cake. Putting in new valves requires a go-kart valve lapping tool and some lapping compound and maybe 10 mins a valve. Thats all youd get from a shop, probably with less care then youd put into it. Check the deck surface with a straight edge, I believe runout can be up to 5 thousandths. Get the factory service manual and have a read.

                    Next time someone tries to spin you off have a good laugh at them and take your money to a real shop.

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                      #11
                      per my Helms less than .05 mm warpage when measured diagonally (from the corner head stud holes for all) top to bottom, side to side or down the middle of all 4 chambers, bisecting the intake and exhaust valves requires no resurfacing. between .05 mm and .2 mm the head will need resurfacing and anything beyond .2 mm requires a new head.

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                        #12
                        If i did the swap myself i would just buy a reman one online. Like someone said i can get one for 400ish or lower with everything i need. A machine shop wants the same or more to reman the one that is on. Is this something i can do myself u think. I am very mechanically inclined but i have no garage and my parking space is on a tilt so i can't jack it up. Do i need to get under the car for any reason. Like removing the bracket for the intake manifold. Can all this be done from above without being a huge pain in ass. What yall think?

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