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PT3/PT6 Tuning Software

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    #46
    Originally posted by 10thAnnivCB7 View Post
    You have got to be a genius. Good to see you're still working with it.
    Thanks for the compliment.

    Anyways I spent some more time yesterday and today working on my software. I am dwindling down the things on my to do before release list with my software.

    Current Views
    -8bit & 16bit (Integer, Percentage, Hex)
    -8bit only (Ignition Formula)
    -16bit only (RPM Formula)

    1. All conversion/deconversion formula's are fully programmed and working in all associated viewing modes (8bit vs 16bit).
    2. I fixed the color coder to work properly with all views, and to refresh on view changes.
    3. I changed my map selection method by region and ecu, to a simpler ecu and type-a vs type-b approach.
    4. I have made the adjustments to the license read mechanism so I can incorporate my validation method.
    5. I have made some small changes to make to my Licensing program for my software, a few more adjustments to reflect the changes as part of my validation method, and it should be ready.

    Now for a teaser (aka demonstrating the usefulness of the rpm formula mode in my 16-bit editor in a type-b rom (6 fuel, 6 ignition, 4 maf)):


    I spy with my two eyes, 3 sets of rpm scales in this file... (took me less than a minute of scanning through the file in this mode to find them )

    Also note the references to "Infinity" (The product of dividing by 0 ), have now been replaced by 0's.
    Last edited by cloudasc; 09-18-2012, 12:12 AM.
    PT3/6 Development Thread | My 1991 LX Coupe | DIY: 90-93 Tcu Fix

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      #47
      I spent some more time working on my software today. Added a Custom Map Viewer ability to my software, had to add some additional functionality to my existing map loading routines to impliment it. Anyways here a sneak peek.

      PT3/6 Development Thread | My 1991 LX Coupe | DIY: 90-93 Tcu Fix

      Comment


        #48
        Spent some time yesterday working on a feature that allows exporting the current view into a format usable for posting on the PT-Tuner.com Wiki, or any other "MediaWiki" for that matter. I also expanded the code today so it can be exported as HTML also. I plan on adding a .csv (Comma Seperated Values) export option. Copy from within the software and pasting is Tab Seperated output. The .csv option will allow easy import into various applications, like Excel where one can play with formula's. Anyways on to the pictures and examples!




        Examples:
        MediaWiki Export
        HTML Export
        Last edited by cloudasc; 10-22-2012, 10:16 PM.
        PT3/6 Development Thread | My 1991 LX Coupe | DIY: 90-93 Tcu Fix

        Comment


          #49
          keep up the good work ......also i would like t be one of your beater's for this program!!!!!
          Originally posted by Makaveli2k
          Be a man. Grab on the crank pulley with one hand, hold some chloroform over the air filter and "Shush it to death".
          Originally posted by Accrdkid
          Hey did you earn your Red Wings? Red Wings being you muffed dived that coochie and tasted copper and got the red mustache.

          No matter how far you go, the same path lies in front of you. "ユメクイ"

          Comment


            #50
            So... I got an e-mail from Jarrett earlier today, with some pictures of a PT4 that was sent to him. It appears the PT4 shares the same board layout as the PT3 and PT6, so the code stored in the PROM could definitely be useful. One physical difference I did note, is that the component cluster to the left of the IAB components on the PT4 is empty, where on the PT3 and PT6 its populated (EGR?). I will probably see about meeting up with him sometime this weekend, and possibly see about pulling the code off the PROM, if the owner of the ECU is ok with it.
            PT3/6 Development Thread | My 1991 LX Coupe | DIY: 90-93 Tcu Fix

            Comment


              #51
              For those who are unaware, the PT4 is out of a European Aerodeck for our generation Accord. The engine is practically the same other then higher compression pistons from my understanding, so the PROM from the PT4 would be better suited for running the DOHC F22B then the PT6 would. This might be the next equivalent to the PT3 to P12 upgrade... but for the a6... only time will tell.
              PT3/6 Development Thread | My 1991 LX Coupe | DIY: 90-93 Tcu Fix

              Comment


                #52
                The F22A3 and F22A7 are essentially the same engine. The F22A7 comes in the CB8 Aerodeck and the F22A3 comes in the sedan. Both came with the PT4 ECU.

                The engine has the same emissions equipment as we do, only it achieves 10 more hp.

                The differences are:
                9.8:1 CR vs. our 8.8:1
                4B-stamped camshaft with considerable improvements in lift
                PT4 ECU

                The camshaft is interesting because its difference in lift from the 4A camshaft of the F22A6 is nearly twice the difference between the 4A and the 3B found in the F22A1/4. Adding to that pistons that offer a significant bump and the requisite tune it makes me think that the 10hp is a low figure.

                Anyway, the more I consider the hardware differences, it seems that there's more to the PT4 other than a simple retune for less strict emissions standards. However, a lot of people on here routinely consider a regrind for their camshafts and have or can resurface their heads. Depending on the specs of the regrind that could put you in the neighborhood of the type of build that would benefit from this ECU. Also, like Anthony pointed out, since this ECU is tuned for higher compression than the US ever had it would be a more ideal setup for those who swap to an F22B that has 9.3:1 CR pistons. Heck, it may even benefit those who do the headswap due to the more radical camshaft profiles. That's just me guessing without backing anything up. Any gain there would be minimal, at best.

                The benefits for this process over a tune would lie strictly with cost. Anthony sells the hardware for chipping PT3/6 ECUs and it's the furthest thing from expensive. Once we are able to extract a .bin then theoretically you could have the chip already burned and simply install it into your ECU with a soldered-in socket. Then you drive the car. Done. No purchasing other ECUs, adding IABs, finding a rom that works for your setup and THEN having it dyno-tuned.

                BUT...

                This is still not ideal. Of course you will be better suited to properly tuning your car once you do modifications. Anthony, and myself to the extent of curiosity and procurement, merely seeks to expand the database for the PT family of ECUs. Some people can possibly benefit from this, but most will still need to tune. If you're planning anything beyond mild camshaft/compression upgrades then you likely need to look elsewhere. But so often people claim that the Delta 260/272 can be used without a tune and that's way more ill-advised than running an OEM Honda tune like this one.
                My Members' Ride Thread - It's a marathon build, not a sprint. But keep me honest on the update frequency!

                Comment


                  #53
                  Originally posted by reklipz View Post
                  cloudasc, do you still need someone to help with interpreting the disassembly? I think I might be able to help with that if you need. I've got experience with both hardware and software; let me know!
                  This is happening now.

                  --

                  So, I've done some reading. It looks like the OKI 66k series probably shares an instruction set, which is nice. However, the microcontroller in the Prelude/Accord ECUs is the OKI MSM66911, which no one seems to have a datasheet for. While we may be able to decipher the code flow of the programs for these ECUs, if we don't know the specific register interactions and how they affect the microcontroller hardware, we're up a shit creek without a paddle. Right? Are these register interactions the same as the other controllers in the family, or are they similar enough that with a bit of work we can essentially reverse engineer the chip? This is what I need to know before I can really dig in, and I have a feeling this is why there is little development with our ECUs.

                  Finally, the OKI MSM66911 uses the nX-8/500S core? It looks like the nX-8/500S is the most powerful of the cores, so understanding it should give way to the rest. The only thing that worries me:

                  MSM66101 -- nX-8/100 core
                  MSM66201 -- nX-8/200 core
                  MSM66207 -- nX-8/200 core
                  MSM66301 -- nX-8/300 core
                  MSM66417 -- nX-8/400 core
                  MSM66556 -- nX-8/500S core
                  MSM66589 -- nX-8/500S core

                  See the pattern? Does the MSM66911 use the nX-8/500S core, or does it use yet another undocumented core? The fact that you can use the OKI66k disasm with the MSM66911 is a good sign, though.
                  Last edited by reklipz; 12-09-2012, 02:56 PM.

                  Comment


                    #54
                    Originally posted by reklipz View Post
                    This is happening now.

                    --

                    So, I've done some reading. It looks like the OKI 66k series probably shares an instruction set, which is nice. However, the microcontroller in the Prelude/Accord ECUs is the OKI MSM66911, which no one seems to have a datasheet for. While we may be able to decipher the code flow of the programs for these ECUs, if we don't know the specific register interactions and how they affect the microcontroller hardware, we're up a shit creek without a paddle. Right? Are these register interactions the same as the other controllers in the family, or are they similar enough that with a bit of work we can essentially reverse engineer the chip? This is what I need to know before I can really dig in, and I have a feeling this is why there is little development with our ECUs.

                    Finally, the OKI MSM66911 uses the nX-8/500S core? It looks like the nX-8/500S is the most powerful of the cores, so understanding it should give way to the rest. The only thing that worries me:

                    MSM66101 -- nX-8/100 core
                    MSM66201 -- nX-8/200 core
                    MSM66207 -- nX-8/200 core
                    MSM66301 -- nX-8/300 core
                    MSM66417 -- nX-8/400 core
                    MSM66556 -- nX-8/500S core
                    MSM66589 -- nX-8/500S core

                    See the pattern? Does the MSM66911 use the nX-8/500S core, or does it use yet another undocumented core? The fact that you can use the OKI66k disasm with the MSM66911 is a good sign, though.
                    The best information I can provide you in regards to this is: http://www.nexuslite.com/projects/92-honda-accord-ecu/

                    You asked about registers? Have you seen this page? http://www.nexuslite.com/projects/92...1-information/

                    Also based upon the information that is available for all the OKI chips, I'm pretty sure it shouldn't be that hard to figure out the "Special Function
                    Register map", which is what the owner of the site in my previous links got stuck at.
                    PT3/6 Development Thread | My 1991 LX Coupe | DIY: 90-93 Tcu Fix

                    Comment


                      #55
                      Originally posted by cloudasc View Post
                      The best information I can provide you in regards to this is: http://www.nexuslite.com/projects/92-honda-accord-ecu/

                      You asked about registers? Have you seen this page? http://www.nexuslite.com/projects/92...1-information/

                      Also based upon the information that is available for all the OKI chips, I'm pretty sure it shouldn't be that hard to figure out the "Special Function
                      Register map", which is what the owner of the site in my previous links got stuck at.
                      I have seen that website, yep. I'm currently reading the OKI document titled "nX-8/500S Core -- Instruction Manual", with filename UM_62007E.pdf; I think I got it from pgmfi.org. I've already learned a lot about the architecture, and now some of those posts are making sense. Time to keep going!

                      --

                      Okay, nx-8/500S architecture groked; time to look at similar microcontrollers and see what I can pick up.

                      cloudasc, do you know the purpose of the co-processor, and if it communicates with the main processor? Also, do you know if the main processor has any internal ROM, or how the memory space is mapped? I'm guessing the answer is no, but it's worth asking. Lastly, is it possible to get an image of a ROM with the known table spaces converted to NOP or similar? I'm not sure how the image format works, if it stores the whole address space or if it (more likely) stores chunks and metadata about where that chunk is in the whole space.

                      Things are moving along nicely! I'm excited, .
                      Last edited by reklipz; 12-09-2012, 06:46 PM.

                      Comment


                        #56
                        Originally posted by reklipz View Post
                        I have seen that website, yep. I'm currently reading the OKI document titled "nX-8/500S Core -- Instruction Manual", with filename UM_62007E.pdf; I think I got it from pgmfi.org. I've already learned a lot about the architecture, and now some of those posts are making sense. Time to keep going!

                        --

                        Okay, nx-8/500S architecture groked; time to look at similar microcontrollers and see what I can pick up.

                        cloudasc, do you know the purpose of the co-processor, and if it communicates with the main processor? Also, do you know if the main processor has any internal ROM, or how the memory space is mapped? I'm guessing the answer is no, but it's worth asking. Lastly, is it possible to get an image of a ROM with the known table spaces converted to NOP or similar? I'm not sure how the image format works, if it stores the whole address space or if it (more likely) stores chunks and metadata about where that chunk is in the whole space.

                        Things are moving along nicely! I'm excited, .
                        I am not quite sure of the purpose of the co-processor, it sounds like your the new resident expert on these types of chips. I do know that all the OKI chips should have internal rom, our ecu's are just one of those fortunate enough to be configured to use an external eeprom. There is a way to "hack" the processor and retrieve the .rom/.bin or whatever thats stored in its memory. When I looked at the various differences between the OKI processors, the main differences I noticed (by comparing spec sheets), is they processor speed, and memory configuration were the main things that I remember changes between versions.

                        In regards to converting known table spaces to NOP, do you know what the hex value for "NOP" should be with these ecu's? I was just thinking of "FF"ing out all the tables. I noticed from the disassembler, there was alot of "crap" from the tables "interupting" the flow of code. All the memory addresses for known tables are posted all over my wiki depending upon the rom. Opening a hex editor to those memory locations, and "FF"ing them manually is possible. I will have to load up my software and see about blanking a couple roms of the tables for you. If it was me, and I was able to dig/understand the assembly properly, my first order of business would be searching for the reference's/jumps to the fuel tables, so hopefully the fuel formula can be identified. After that, I would want to find the IAB open and close rpm's.

                        The one year anniversary of pt-tuner.com's opening is coming up, and I have something special planned, but I do not want to say anything as it would ruin the suprise. If you really want to know, pm me.
                        PT3/6 Development Thread | My 1991 LX Coupe | DIY: 90-93 Tcu Fix

                        Comment


                          #57
                          Originally posted by cloudasc View Post
                          I am not quite sure of the purpose of the co-processor, it sounds like your the new resident expert on these types of chips.
                          Hah! I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but I feel empowered.

                          Originally posted by cloudasc View Post
                          I do know that all the OKI chips should have internal rom, our ecu's are just one of those fortunate enough to be configured to use an external eeprom. There is a way to "hack" the processor and retrieve the .rom/.bin or whatever thats stored in its memory.
                          Perfect; thanks!

                          Originally posted by cloudasc View Post
                          When I looked at the various differences between the OKI processors, the main differences I noticed (by comparing spec sheets), is they processor speed, and memory configuration were the main things that I remember changes between versions.
                          Just to clarify, you're stating that the peripherals and the SFRs that control them are generally consistent across the family, whereas the speed and memory model capabilities were the main differences?

                          Originally posted by cloudasc View Post
                          In regards to converting known table spaces to NOP, do you know what the hex value for "NOP" should be with these ecu's? I was just thinking of "FF"ing out all the tables. I noticed from the disassembler, there was alot of "crap" from the tables "interupting" the flow of code. All the memory addresses for known tables are posted all over my wiki depending upon the rom. Opening a hex editor to those memory locations, and "FF"ing them manually is possible. I will have to load up my software and see about blanking a couple roms of the tables for you.
                          I don't know the NOP code off hand, and I'm still confirming my understanding of the rest of the instruction set, so 0xFF will work just fine. I see now where the addresses are documented on your site (and nexuslite.com and pgmfi.org), so I can take care of this myself; don't feel obligated.


                          Originally posted by cloudasc View Post
                          If it was me, and I was able to dig/understand the assembly properly, my first order of business would be searching for the reference's/jumps to the fuel tables, so hopefully the fuel formula can be identified. After that, I would want to find the IAB open and close rpm's.
                          Awesome, I'll make those my first priorities then.

                          Originally posted by cloudasc View Post
                          The one year anniversary of pt-tuner.com's opening is coming up, and I have something special planned, but I do not want to say anything as it would ruin the suprise. If you really want to know, pm me.
                          I do really want to know, but as you said that would ruin the surprise. I'll wait anxiously like everyone else!

                          --

                          Here's the kicker: Do I share all of the information I've discovered with the community, or do I keep it private? I've found some folks who claim to have this ECU figured out (presumably because they've found the datasheet or similar), but are keeping the information private in hopes to make it big when all of the current chippable ECU supply runs out.
                          Last edited by reklipz; 12-11-2012, 11:54 AM.

                          Comment


                            #58
                            Originally posted by reklipz View Post
                            Just to clarify, you're stating that the peripherals and the SFRs that control them are generally consistent across the family, whereas the speed and memory model capabilities were the main differences?
                            I was just comparing the physical attributes, and the pin correlations, and other information that are found on other specification sheets for other OKI 66k processors. The pinouts on them are all the same, and what I remember noticing was the processor speed/memory allocation were all I could differentiate by looking at the spec sheet. Although the one specific for this processor doesn't seem to exist, and what I've heard from other sources, the spec sheet might not even exist anymore, or at least its not easily attainable. As there was one person who mentioned they tried contacting OKI, or whatever company bought them out to get the information on that processor, and were told that that information is not available/attainable.

                            Originally posted by reklipz View Post
                            Here's the kicker: Do I share all of the information I've discovered with the community, or do I keep it private? I've found some folks who claim to have this ECU figured out (presumably because they've found the datasheet or similar), but are keeping the information private in hopes to make it big when all of the current chippable ECU supply runs out.

                            If someone is holding on out information, then let them, my goal with this project is to expand the understanding of these ecu's, if someone else takes the information thats generated and makes these ecu's "tunable" in similiar means to the civic ecu's, then the overal goal of this project would be considered a success, and the tools created as part of my software, could be used in conjuction with other ecu's to help expand on their capabilities if the right person is interested. I am not trying to get rich by any means, nor do I intend to replace my day job for this project, just trying to offer my expertise for a greater good, plus its helping me stay current in VB.

                            In regards to people withholding information, I believe the main motivator would be to limit the competition, as there are plenty of people who have snatched up almost every p06/p28/p72 they can get their hands on, and have made themselves a "niche".
                            Last edited by cloudasc; 12-11-2012, 03:32 PM.
                            PT3/6 Development Thread | My 1991 LX Coupe | DIY: 90-93 Tcu Fix

                            Comment


                              #59
                              Man you guys are doing such an awesome job!

                              This is just the kind of thing to revitalize this community and will be so beneficial for not just us, but any tuner.


                              I wish I could help but I do not have anything to offer in forms of knowledge, parts, or money

                              Just support!

                              Comment


                                #60
                                I've actually already contacted a few companies regarding finding the datasheet for this chip. I read that someone contacted ROHM Group / LAPIS Semi (what OKI Semi has become), and they came up fruitless. The details were lost in the acquisition/merger.

                                Here's an image, enough said:


                                -- edit --
                                Hmm.. I just got a reply:
                                http://desmas.net/D__CTM_CSI.doc
                                -- end edit --

                                Originally posted by cloudasc View Post
                                My goal with this project is to expand the understanding of these ecu's, if someone else takes the information thats generated and makes these ecu's "tunable" in similiar means to the civic ecu's, then the overal goal of this project would be considered a success, and the tools created as part of my software, could be used in conjuction with other ecu's to help expand on their capabilities if the right person is interested.
                                I am currently seeing myself as fulfilling your prophetical someone else, and perhaps also the right person. You're coming along for the ride, btw.

                                I feel like we're getting a bit OT from the topic of the thread. Perhaps we should have a moderator clean this up and split the two?
                                Last edited by reklipz; 12-11-2012, 04:04 PM.

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