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Old 04-04-2013, 04:39 PM   #1
Learners_Permit
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looking to start an f22a1 build, but need some guidance

I am extremely new to the world of the Accord, and the f22. I have a little knowledge of d-series but that too, is limited. I am looking to build my motor over the coming summer. I have a stock 1990 Accord Lx.
  • Rebuild motor
  • Add NOS
  • Add DSM turbo at 4-6psi
  • Upgrade Tranny

I would really appreciate knowing where to begin? If the turbo will hurt me? Does the motor need both top and bottom rebuilt? What ECU would I need to do this and run Hondata S300? I am looking to do this on somewhat of a budget but I realize there are things that I need to purchase that are pricey.

Last edited by Learners_Permit; 04-04-2013 at 04:42 PM. Reason: left out information
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Old 04-04-2013, 04:46 PM   #2
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Is this a street or strip build?

Turbo and nitrous oxide? Your going to need quite the tuner.

If turbo then bottom rebuild is a great insurance.
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Old 04-04-2013, 04:54 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by accord4me View Post
Is this a street or strip build?

Turbo and nitrous oxide? Your going to need quite the tuner.

If turbo then bottom rebuild is a great insurance.
I would like to have a fun Daily that is semi-reliable, I do not mind the upkeep, but I would like to be able to go to the track now and again and throw up some okay numbers.
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Old 04-04-2013, 04:55 PM   #4
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You'll need forged internals if you plan on the bottom end lasting more than a few thousand miles, even with new parts and a good tune.

At 4-6psi, a transmission build isn't necessary, even for a healthy automatic. Wouldn't hurt, but it's overkill. Unless you're planning on running a large shot of nitrous (NOS brand or not...)
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Old 04-04-2013, 04:57 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deevergote View Post
You'll need forged internals if you plan on the bottom end lasting more than a few thousand miles, even with new parts and a good tune.

At 4-6psi, a transmission build isn't necessary, even for a healthy automatic. Wouldn't hurt, but it's overkill. Unless you're planning on running a large shot of nitrous (NOS brand or not...)
Ok, so like ARP? also it's a 5 speed sorry for not including in first post.
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Old 04-04-2013, 05:57 PM   #6
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No. ARP makes head studs and other fasteners. Also important, but not what I was talking about. Forged internals. Pistons and rods.
If you don't know what internals are, you have a LOT to learn before you should expect to build a reliable turbo engine.
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Old 04-04-2013, 06:10 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deevergote View Post
No. ARP makes head studs and other fasteners. Also important, but not what I was talking about. Forged internals. Pistons and rods.
If you don't know what internals are, you have a LOT to learn before you should expect to build a reliable turbo engine.
Ok, I understand thank you for clarifying. So does this also include all new internals in the head as well? Where would be a good brand to start with, other than Bisi?
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Old 04-04-2013, 06:17 PM   #8
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Right now you don't need to focus on brands. You need to focus on components. Learn what they do and why they're upgraded. Look at other people's builds and research as much as you can on the topic. Questions should come after you've searched for a while and still not found the answers you seek. Right now you're essentially asking one of the most asked questions on this entire forum.
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Old 04-04-2013, 06:27 PM   #9
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Bisi hardly makes anything, he just helps RD and sells the products.

I'm a firm believer in doing a stock or near stock build first to learn the in's and outs. New comers will learn from it and not waste a few grand on a forged build that will go just as quickly if not quicker when done right, it's not a slap and go process as some would love to believe.
You need proper clearances on the bearings this takes proper tools and know how. I can show forged build's that lasted 100 miles only to spin a bearing because someone or shop thought they knew what they were doing. Inproperly done wither with factory clearances or a HP driven build with the builder own preferences will cause oiling issues and result in failure.

In short if you have no clue stop and learn as much as you can, or have a Reputable shop do it that needs to be researched aswell as not every shop knows what they're doing.
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Old 04-04-2013, 06:31 PM   #10
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Exactly. I know many people, myself among them, that have blindly trusted professionals in lieu of learning things themselves. The result has often been absolutely terrible.

Chances are you're not going to be building the whole engine yourself, especially the machine work... but be sure you know enough to tell when a professional is bullshitting you. Pros know a lot about everything... but it's up to you to learn everything about your specific application.
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Old 04-04-2013, 06:34 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOHC-FTW View Post
Bisi hardly makes anything, he just helps RD and sells the products.

I'm a firm believer in doing a stock or near stock build first to learn the in's and outs. New comers will learn from it and not waste a few grand on a forged build that will go just as quickly if not quicker when done right, it's not a slap and go process as some would love to believe.
You need proper clearances on the bearings this takes proper tools and know how. I can show forged build's that lasted 100 miles only to spin a bearing because someone or shop thought they knew what they were doing. Inproperly done wither with factory clearances or a HP driven build with the builder own preferences will cause oiling issues and result in failure.

In short if you have no clue stop and learn as much as you can, or have a Reputable shop do it that needs to be researched aswell as not every shop knows what they're doing.
So I was reading the "add 30+ horse for ~$500" thread and so would those be acceptable upgrades to start with?
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Old 04-04-2013, 06:36 PM   #12
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Very acceptable, it's where most start. Will it make it fast? no but they're worthwhile upgrades.
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Old 04-04-2013, 06:37 PM   #13
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Yes. But that's a totally different focus than what you made this thread about.


Actually, go out right now (or go to amazon.com or ebay) and buy this book:
Honda/Acura Engine Performance by Mike Kojima. It's very outdated now, but considering our engines are 20 years old, it still applies quite well.
Buy it, read it cover to cover, and understand it. That book alone will cover all the bases. You'll learn everything you need to know to get started. It is not by any means a comprehensive study in any one particular area, but it's enough for you to get a good grasp on the basics, so you can start learning the details.
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Old 04-04-2013, 06:53 PM   #14
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If you are looking for reliable and dependable, and you can not build an engine yourself. My advice would be to get an H22.

I know you think you want to build a motor. But you need to measure stuff with micrometers replace bearings and forged rods and pistons will run almost as much as an H22 will run and that is no cam or springs.

I thought this would be fun to do. It started with a head and intake change. Then I got to reading and researching. I finally decided that I could get more reliable power with a Honda built not Steve built motor. There is one member on here that has put a lot of effort into building a F and haw done a great job.
But in the end I am not that person. Maybe you are. Be realistic in YOUR abilities.

my 2 cents. Maybe in a year I will be able to build but now I didn't feel comfortable.

Just throwing this advice out there.

Good luck.


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Old 04-04-2013, 07:20 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deevergote View Post
Yes. But that's a totally different focus than what you made this thread about.


Actually, go out right now (or go to amazon.com or ebay) and buy this book:
Honda/Acura Engine Performance by Mike Kojima. It's very outdated now, but considering our engines are 20 years old, it still applies quite well.
Buy it, read it cover to cover, and understand it. That book alone will cover all the bases. You'll learn everything you need to know to get started. It is not by any means a comprehensive study in any one particular area, but it's enough for you to get a good grasp on the basics, so you can start learning the details.
Ok I will get this ASAP. could you go into depth a little more as to why this is not the exact direction I want to go in?
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Old 04-04-2013, 07:23 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoner51 View Post
If you are looking for reliable and dependable, and you can not build an engine yourself. My advice would be to get an H22.

I know you think you want to build a motor. But you need to measure stuff with micrometers replace bearings and forged rods and pistons will run almost as much as an H22 will run and that is no cam or springs.

I thought this would be fun to do. It started with a head and intake change. Then I got to reading and researching. I finally decided that I could get more reliable power with a Honda built not Steve built motor. There is one member on here that has put a lot of effort into building a F and haw done a great job.
But in the end I am not that person. Maybe you are. Be realistic in YOUR abilities.

my 2 cents. Maybe in a year I will be able to build but now I didn't feel comfortable.

Just throwing this advice out there.

Good luck.


steve
I have access to all the specialty tools and many people who have been at this for ages. I have a lot of time to work on this too and I don't need to complete this build this year, but I would like to get headed into the proper direction.

Also thanks for the luck, I will need it.
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Old 04-04-2013, 07:35 PM   #17
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You're in the right position to learn, then. Having access to the proper tools is more than most people have.

Buy that book, and read it. Then learn in detail what you'll need to do each step of the way. It will take time, but if you manage to do it slow and understand exactly what you're doing (and why), you'll be an expert by the end of the build.
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Old 04-04-2013, 08:28 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deevergote View Post
You're in the right position to learn, then. Having access to the proper tools is more than most people have.

Buy that book, and read it. Then learn in detail what you'll need to do each step of the way. It will take time, but if you manage to do it slow and understand exactly what you're doing (and why), you'll be an expert by the end of the build.
I will do that and catch up with this later thank you for the help so far.
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Old 04-05-2013, 07:48 AM   #19
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I have heard, and remember, this is just hearsay, that a stock motor with a clean, precise stock rebuild can hold up to 9 lbs. of boost. I'd say if a stock K23 can utilize a turbo, then why can't any other low compression Honda motor?
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Old 04-05-2013, 08:04 AM   #20
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Because the F22A pistons are crap. Most all F/H pistons are. The ringlands break very easily. And this isn't just something people spout off because they heard it one time. There is a ton of documented proof of this happening and it all happens because of prolonged boost. Replacing pistons will give you a margin for error necessary to lightly boost reliably. But, as with anything else, any situation could be different and there's no guarantees that your other components will last then either.
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