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Does anyone have any experience installing GFCI outlets?

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    Does anyone have any experience installing GFCI outlets?

    I just replaced the archaic non-GFCI combo switch (light switch and outlet) in my bathroom with a new Leviton GFCI unit. The old unit worked, though the plastic around the outlet was damaged, and the switch was definitely wearing out. Since it's near water, I'm required by state electrical codes to have a GFCI outlet.

    Anyway, I installed the new Leviton GFCI unit, and the switch works great. The outlet has no power whatsoever. I even bought a new one, in hopes that I just got a dud. Same result. I followed the instructions in the package to the best of my understanding. The wiring is pretty straightforward, especially since there are no other outlets beyond this one in the circuit.

    I've never installed one of these things before. If I'm making a stupid mistake, I'm missing it. If anyone has any experience that could give me some advice, I'd be extremely grateful! My wife isn't happy that she can't dry her hair in the bathroom...

    Here are pics of my wiring. Sorry for the rotated pictures. They didn't show up that way until I uploaded them, and my FTP program keeps crashing.









    #2
    double check that your connections are not reversed. the gfci outlets are a little more sensitive to a reversal, more than a regular outlet would. Usually they have one gold and one silver screw to indicate the difference but it is hard to tell from your pic.

    alternatively you might have a second gfci outlet somewhere further upstream in the circuit (garage?) that have be known to sometimes affect other units downstream.

    you might want to also grab a "circuit tester" from harbor freight. they have two versions, a regular, and one for testing gfci. It will tell you if there are any wiring faults (good to validate after touching anything). Very cheap peace of mind.
    Last edited by cp[mike]; 02-01-2017, 04:04 PM.


    - 1993 Accord LX - White sedan (sold)
    - 1993 Accord EX - White sedan (wrecked)
    - 1991 Accord EX - White sedan (sold)
    - 1990 Accord EX - Grey sedan (sold)
    - 1993 Accord EX - White sedan (sold)
    - 1992 Accord EX - White coupe (sold)
    - 1993 Accord EX - Grey coupe (stolen)
    - 1993 Accord SE - Gold coupe (sold)
    Current cars:
    - 2005 Subaru Legacy GT Wagon - Daily driver
    - 2004 Chevrolet Express AWD - Camper conversion

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      #3
      No other GFCI outlets in the house (yet... planning 3 more... but this is the first.)

      This one does have the silver and gold screws. The white line goes to the silver (it also says "white" on the back of the unit on that side.) The black one goes to the gold screw. Ground goes to the green ground screw.

      This is the instruction sheet that came in the box. The only thing that wasn't entirely straightforward was the testing procedure. Apparently, they come "tripped"... meaning if I didn't reset it properly, it could just be dead. I figured the status indicator light should at least come on, though!

      This tester, you mean? For $7, I might as well grab one. If it'll tell me what wires aren't working properly, it'll be very useful!






      Comment


        #4
        this might be a silly question... but did you try pressing Test, then Reset again? For the outlet to be operational, the "reset" button should stay pressed in. Pressing either button should lock it in place - they should not pop back out.


        - 1993 Accord LX - White sedan (sold)
        - 1993 Accord EX - White sedan (wrecked)
        - 1991 Accord EX - White sedan (sold)
        - 1990 Accord EX - Grey sedan (sold)
        - 1993 Accord EX - White sedan (sold)
        - 1992 Accord EX - White coupe (sold)
        - 1993 Accord EX - Grey coupe (stolen)
        - 1993 Accord SE - Gold coupe (sold)
        Current cars:
        - 2005 Subaru Legacy GT Wagon - Daily driver
        - 2004 Chevrolet Express AWD - Camper conversion

        Comment


          #5
          I did. The test button barely moves. The reset button goes deep, but pops right back out again.
          I have other GFCI outlets waiting to be installed that feel much the same.






          Comment


            #6
            Ok, so I did a little poking around in the box. There are three cables entering the box. Two from the bottom, one from the top. Each one has a white, a black, and a bare copper ground. All the whites are tied together with a wire nut. All the grounds are tied together with a wire nut.
            Of the three black wires, I am assuming that the two coming from the bottom are the live wires (breaker box is in the basement). The black wire coming from the top and one of the black wires coming from the bottom are connected to the switch wires. The switch works, leading me to believe that I do indeed have one hot and one neutral hooked up there. The other black is hooked to the outlet.

            This. Should. Be. Working.

            Could the tied-together white wires be causing a problem, maybe?






            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by deevergote View Post
              Ok, so I did a little poking around in the box. There are three cables entering the box. Two from the bottom, one from the top. Each one has a white, a black, and a bare copper ground. All the whites are tied together with a wire nut. All the grounds are tied together with a wire nut.
              Of the three black wires, I am assuming that the two coming from the bottom are the live wires (breaker box is in the basement). The black wire coming from the top and one of the black wires coming from the bottom are connected to the switch wires. The switch works, leading me to believe that I do indeed have one hot and one neutral hooked up there. The other black is hooked to the outlet.

              This. Should. Be. Working.

              Could the tied-together white wires be causing a problem, maybe?



              Do you have a continuity tester?




              I could help you resolve this really easy if you had a before pic. My opinion here is that you have the wiring backwards with the switch wire.

              Is this ran with romex initially?


              It is common to run a second line of romex to the outlet for the switch. Tie black together In the box coming from the house wiring, run to switch, black on one side white on the other(Even though it is technically black coming back out of switch) and then tying the white that came out of the switch to the black location on the plug.

              Does that make any damn sense? Lol. If I could see the wiring before you took anything apart I could walk you through this no problem. Most likely, you are having an issue with the switch wires if everything works correctly in the first place.

              -.02
              Originally posted by wed3k
              im a douchebag to people and i don't even own a lambo. whats your point? we, douchbags, come in all sorts of shapes and colours.

              Comment


                #8
                Good to have you back, Justin!

                I was stupid and didn't get a before pic. I just examined the old unit, which has four terminals on it. Two were for the switch, and two for the outlet. I think the wires for the switch might have been on one side, and the outlet wires on the other side (unlike the new one, which has separate switch wires coming from the unit, and the black/white connections on either side.) I may have hooked one of the switch wires to the hot line terminal. Since the switch turns the bathroom lights on, I don't see how it wouldn't work, though. The lights clearly have one hot and one neutral, or they wouldn't function. Meaning the remaining wire is hot.

                It has romex now (black, white, and bare copper in a gray sheath), but it isn't original. This house is OLD... remnants of knob and tube can still be seen in the basement! Of the two cables running in from the bottom of the box, one looks to be straight to the breaker, and the other looks like it might run into the kitchen (which is on the other side of the wall from the bathroom.) I'm assuming the cable entering the box from the top is going to the ceiling-mounted bathroom lights.

                I have no tester. I'm probably going to run out tonight and pick one up.



                I took a crappy pic of the old and new units side by side. Both are oriented the same way, switch up top, outlet below.
                The new outlet has the white wire terminals on the left (line up top, load at the bottom, covered by the yellow sticker), and the black wire terminals on the right. The two wires coming out of the top are for the switch.
                The old outlet appears to have the switch terminals on the left side. The upper terminal on the right is marked "white". The lower terminal is unmarked, but it's a black screw, which usually means hot.






                Comment


                  #9
                  If I connected two hot wires to the switch, would it still turn the lights on? I'd imagine that would pop a breaker, or burst into flames, or something fun like that...






                  Comment


                    #10
                    I have the same thing at work. This is the diagram I use. I'm no electrician so I use diagrams on my phone. Hope this helps.

                    https://www.do-it-yourself-help.com/...h-same-box.gif

                    Black is hot, grey or white is neutral and green is ground.

                    When dealing with household switches, typically, the brass screws are hot, the silver screw is neutral and the green screw is ground. I say typically because sometimes they aren't color coded although most now days are.

                    I can't tell everything from the pics or your description but the diagram above seems to be what you have going on.

                    Again, hope this helps.
                    Last edited by H311RA151N; 02-02-2017, 02:51 AM.




                    Comment


                      #11
                      i cant help with this, but for future reference they have ground fault interrupter circuit breakers! Protects that whole circuit from ground faults. Also when you upgrade, that have AFCI breakers (Arc Fault) that protect the circuit, kind of like GFCI but a lot "smarter" say like a lamp falls and is on and the bulb breaks, the Arc fault's going to trip where a regular magnetic breaker might continue feeding current, increasing odds of a fire. Anyway good luck.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by deevergote View Post
                        Ok, so I did a little poking around in the box. There are three cables entering the box. Two from the bottom, one from the top. Each one has a white, a black, and a bare copper ground. All the whites are tied together with a wire nut. All the grounds are tied together with a wire nut.
                        Of the three black wires, I am assuming that the two coming from the bottom are the live wires (breaker box is in the basement). The black wire coming from the top and one of the black wires coming from the bottom are connected to the switch wires. The switch works, leading me to believe that I do indeed have one hot and one neutral hooked up there. The other black is hooked to the outlet.

                        This. Should. Be. Working.

                        Could the tied-together white wires be causing a problem, maybe?
                        No, all the white wires should be tied together. Are you sure there is no other light or outlet on this circuit breaker? Also, what does the switch power?

                        Having 3 black (hot) wires in 1 box would mean that there is a branch or they powered the switch and outlet separately.

                        I'm assuming the switch is for a light and they have separate power sources (This will protect the outlet with the GFCI, but not the light).

                        - Green screw = all bare copper grounds
                        - White screw = all neutral wires (white or grey)
                        - brass line screw = black hot wire (coming from power source)
                        - black wire coming out of GFCI switch = black hot wire (coming from power source)
                        - Other black wire coming out of GCFI switch = black hot wire (to the light, so top wire)

                        *Edit*

                        Since your switch works, it means that one of those is the source of power, so you could add a pigtail to that wire connecting it to the Brass line screw on the GFCI outlet. The outlet and the switch will work, but then you'll have a mystery 3rd wire.

                        If there is an additional outlet on this circuit, then the 3rd wire would be connected to the Brass load screw.
                        Last edited by Blk EX Coupe; 02-02-2017, 03:26 PM.

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                          #13
                          Ok, I found the hot wire, and put it where it belongs. The outlet works!
                          But now the lights aren't working. I tried switching the other two wires around, and had no luck. Reset the GFCI, in case that did anything (that works now...) but no dice. The switch worked fine with direct power.






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                            #14
                            You have to add a wire to power the light switch then.

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                              #15
                              That's seems to be how it's looking. The combo unit that was there previously worked with four separate connections, though. I don't get it.






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