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1991 Accord LX Race Car

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    #76
    Well we were doing well until the tranny died. On our way home. More later.
    ==========================
    1991 Accord Lemons Race Car, "The Minnow" RIP
    1993 Accord Lemons Race Car, "SpaceEx Starship"
    Neuspeed Race Springs, Koni Sports, Acura CL Rear Sway Bar,
    Adj Upper Control Arms -3.0deg front, -2.0 deg rear
    M2A4 Trans, Cusco 1-way Limited Slip Differential, Stage 2 Clutch and 11lb flywheel. A4 Header, 2" exhaust all the way back, catalyst delete, delta 262 grind, glasspack muffler, PT6 ECU.
    Acura CL3.0 Brakes Front and Rear, Raybestos St43 Pads, Redline 600 Brake Fluid

    Comment


      #77
      Originally posted by ukemike View Post
      Well we were doing well until the tranny died. On our way home. More later.
      We got up to at least 51st place. I had a 4:04 and Dennis had a 4:01. It was running great until it wasn't. On the video on the last 1/3 lap it started making a whining noise and by the time he was pulling into the pit it was clearly over. I suppose we could have attempted the heroic fix, but I'd rather do it right and get all those other things done while we are in there.

      So we're looking for a tranny. Something with some limited slip and lower gearing like an m2b4. While we are in there we'll do many other things that are easier with the engine out. It's gonna be a lot of work.

      I'm going to edit together some of our gopro footage and get it uploading to youtube tonight. Might have a few things to watch in a few days.
      Last edited by ukemike; 05-22-2016, 01:19 PM.
      ==========================
      1991 Accord Lemons Race Car, "The Minnow" RIP
      1993 Accord Lemons Race Car, "SpaceEx Starship"
      Neuspeed Race Springs, Koni Sports, Acura CL Rear Sway Bar,
      Adj Upper Control Arms -3.0deg front, -2.0 deg rear
      M2A4 Trans, Cusco 1-way Limited Slip Differential, Stage 2 Clutch and 11lb flywheel. A4 Header, 2" exhaust all the way back, catalyst delete, delta 262 grind, glasspack muffler, PT6 ECU.
      Acura CL3.0 Brakes Front and Rear, Raybestos St43 Pads, Redline 600 Brake Fluid

      Comment


        #78
        I've been searching around. Is there a sticky somewhere here about removing the engine and transmission. We have to replace the transmission and we want a new clutch, timing belt, water pump, oil pan gasket, etc while we are in there.
        ==========================
        1991 Accord Lemons Race Car, "The Minnow" RIP
        1993 Accord Lemons Race Car, "SpaceEx Starship"
        Neuspeed Race Springs, Koni Sports, Acura CL Rear Sway Bar,
        Adj Upper Control Arms -3.0deg front, -2.0 deg rear
        M2A4 Trans, Cusco 1-way Limited Slip Differential, Stage 2 Clutch and 11lb flywheel. A4 Header, 2" exhaust all the way back, catalyst delete, delta 262 grind, glasspack muffler, PT6 ECU.
        Acura CL3.0 Brakes Front and Rear, Raybestos St43 Pads, Redline 600 Brake Fluid

        Comment


          #79
          When you find that sticky, I'd love to use it too.

          Comment


            #80
            From what I've read about the factory LSDs is that they're viscous, which means any used one is going to be about useless at this point in it's life and they're not rebuildable.

            I'd love to hear that I am wrong though.

            I think you can get a Phantom grip for $300, or go for a real diff and get an Mfactory/Wavetrac/Quaife for ~$800


            Was there any warning that your trans was on it's way out?? My race car grinds if I shift hard into 3rd but other than that seems good. I don't want it to blow up on the track though.
            We run Redline MT90, what fluid did you have in yours?



            If you are goign to do the timing belt, (it's easy, I've did mine twice last weekend..), you should remove the balance shaft belt and free up 1 or 2 hp.

            Think about getting an F22A6 cam at the same time, I just did that 2 weekends ago and it gives a little bump in top end power.

            And if you're doing oil pan gasket, you should get the F22A6 windage tray for sure.
            And if you have a welder, weld up some baffling in the oil pan. I put a baffle in our pan, but I will add some more next time I have it out and I still see pressure drop on hard, sweeping left corners.

            Gonna copy this H22 pan.

            Comment


              #81
              Originally posted by aventari View Post
              From what I've read about the factory LSDs is that they're viscous, which means any used one is going to be about useless at this point in it's life and they're not rebuildable.

              ...

              Was there any warning that your trans was on it's way out?? My race car grinds if I shift hard into 3rd but other than that seems good. I don't want it to blow up on the track though.
              We run Redline MT90, what fluid did you have in yours?

              ...
              Ours has been rough going into 3rd since we got it. We just take our time and baby it into gear. On the last half lap or so it started whining. You can hear it in the video that I haven't processed and uploaded yet.

              We were just using the honda transmission oil which is essentially 10w30.
              ==========================
              1991 Accord Lemons Race Car, "The Minnow" RIP
              1993 Accord Lemons Race Car, "SpaceEx Starship"
              Neuspeed Race Springs, Koni Sports, Acura CL Rear Sway Bar,
              Adj Upper Control Arms -3.0deg front, -2.0 deg rear
              M2A4 Trans, Cusco 1-way Limited Slip Differential, Stage 2 Clutch and 11lb flywheel. A4 Header, 2" exhaust all the way back, catalyst delete, delta 262 grind, glasspack muffler, PT6 ECU.
              Acura CL3.0 Brakes Front and Rear, Raybestos St43 Pads, Redline 600 Brake Fluid

              Comment


                #82
                If you could get a few pics I'd love some of the brake ducting you made.

                We have 1 week left and I'd like to do something this weekend before the race on our car

                Comment


                  #83
                  Originally posted by aventari View Post
                  If you could get a few pics I'd love some of the brake ducting you made.

                  We have 1 week left and I'd like to do something this weekend before the race on our car

                  Okay, I kept forgetting. This one shows the duct from the sheetmetal intake I made. You can see we took out that wheel well stuff. We have a plywood splitter that isn't installed when the photo was made.
                  https://drive.google.com/open?id=0By...BKeUd4OHZGRnc4

                  This one shows the duct running along the radius arm and tied onto the shock fork so it blows onto the disk and caliper.
                  https://drive.google.com/open?id=0By...BiTWg0SllTUk5j

                  I didn't have time to embed the photos. Hope this helps.
                  ==========================
                  1991 Accord Lemons Race Car, "The Minnow" RIP
                  1993 Accord Lemons Race Car, "SpaceEx Starship"
                  Neuspeed Race Springs, Koni Sports, Acura CL Rear Sway Bar,
                  Adj Upper Control Arms -3.0deg front, -2.0 deg rear
                  M2A4 Trans, Cusco 1-way Limited Slip Differential, Stage 2 Clutch and 11lb flywheel. A4 Header, 2" exhaust all the way back, catalyst delete, delta 262 grind, glasspack muffler, PT6 ECU.
                  Acura CL3.0 Brakes Front and Rear, Raybestos St43 Pads, Redline 600 Brake Fluid

                  Comment


                    #84
                    transmission and timing

                    We're going to change the timing belt and water pump. I have a complete kit from rockauto on the way. I'm also going to replace our leaky oil pan gasket. I've been looking around and I can't find a windage tray. Maybe a picknpull visit is in order. What else should we do while in there?

                    We are also replacing our burnt up transmission. We have an m2a4 on the way and a Cusco Limited Slip differential. Don't tell anyone about that last part. We are considering how we might make use of the various gear ratios we have available to make a close ratio box. If we had a 1.071 to use as 4th we'd have a near perfect set of gears. Short of finding a 92-96 Prelude VTEC with the m2f4 is there any way we might get our hands on those gears? Does someone have some laying around?

                    One final question. Do all of the transmissions from the H22 motors bolt right onto the F22? I saw an off hand comment on here recently that made me think some machining was needed??
                    Last edited by ukemike; 06-01-2016, 11:16 PM.
                    ==========================
                    1991 Accord Lemons Race Car, "The Minnow" RIP
                    1993 Accord Lemons Race Car, "SpaceEx Starship"
                    Neuspeed Race Springs, Koni Sports, Acura CL Rear Sway Bar,
                    Adj Upper Control Arms -3.0deg front, -2.0 deg rear
                    M2A4 Trans, Cusco 1-way Limited Slip Differential, Stage 2 Clutch and 11lb flywheel. A4 Header, 2" exhaust all the way back, catalyst delete, delta 262 grind, glasspack muffler, PT6 ECU.
                    Acura CL3.0 Brakes Front and Rear, Raybestos St43 Pads, Redline 600 Brake Fluid

                    Comment


                      #85
                      Race summary

                      I never did summarize our race.
                      We started out well. I took the first stint of about 2 hours. At the end of it we were in 34th. My fastest lap was a 4:04. We spent some time trying to get the brakelight switch working. The light was staying on all the time. We failed to fix it so we sent Dennis out. We were in about 87th then. I went and got a new switch. When Dennis came in he couldn't get it into 1st or 2nd so he got pushed to our paddock. He was in 50th at that point. His fastest lap was a 4:01.

                      We decided not to rush to the Chico Picknpull to yank a tranny with handtools in hopes of getting it working in our car. Two removals and one install would have made for a long hard weekend and we probably would have messed it up. So we decided to do it right.
                      ==========================
                      1991 Accord Lemons Race Car, "The Minnow" RIP
                      1993 Accord Lemons Race Car, "SpaceEx Starship"
                      Neuspeed Race Springs, Koni Sports, Acura CL Rear Sway Bar,
                      Adj Upper Control Arms -3.0deg front, -2.0 deg rear
                      M2A4 Trans, Cusco 1-way Limited Slip Differential, Stage 2 Clutch and 11lb flywheel. A4 Header, 2" exhaust all the way back, catalyst delete, delta 262 grind, glasspack muffler, PT6 ECU.
                      Acura CL3.0 Brakes Front and Rear, Raybestos St43 Pads, Redline 600 Brake Fluid

                      Comment


                        #86
                        There shouldn't be any issues swapping transmissions between H and F motors, the main thing you have to do on the H motor transmissions is to slightly bore out an already cast mounting hole, tapping said hole with the right threads and then swapping over the mounting stud from the F transmission and then putting it into the newly tapped hole on the H transmission. Maybe that's the machining comment you saw, however its a simple process with minimal tools, I did it with my f22B swap and takes less then 30mins to do.
                        Here's the DIY on how to do that: http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=74780

                        For the comments on the harsh 3rd gear shifts, its a well known and a common problem with the accord transmission's 3rd gear synchros start to go bad or fail. Before my swap, my stock accord transmission could not shift into 3rd above 3k rpms or it would grind bad.

                        Also here is a build thread on swapping out gears and there's also a lot of info on gear ratios and talk of other gear set swaps, hope this helps some.
                        http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=201115
                        Last edited by baracuda; 06-02-2016, 09:17 AM.


                        Sold too: Grumpys93, '93CB7Ex, Bunta, prodh22accord, SSMAccord, fleetw00d

                        Comment


                          #87
                          Originally posted by baracuda View Post
                          There shouldn't be any issues swapping transmissions between H and F motors, the main thing you have to do on the H motor transmissions is to slightly bore out an already cast mounting hole, tapping said hole with the right threads and then swapping over the mounting stud from the F transmission and then putting it into the newly tapped hole on the H transmission. Maybe that's the machining comment you saw, however its a simple process with minimal tools, I did it with my f22B swap and takes less then 30mins to do.
                          Here's the DIY on how to do that: http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=74780
                          Words cannot express my gratitude. Your timely reply will save us hours of frustration. I can just imagine us with it already installed saying, why won't the mount fit? Then having to figure out what threads are on the needed stud then getting the right tap....
                          Thank you.

                          The other link is good too.
                          ==========================
                          1991 Accord Lemons Race Car, "The Minnow" RIP
                          1993 Accord Lemons Race Car, "SpaceEx Starship"
                          Neuspeed Race Springs, Koni Sports, Acura CL Rear Sway Bar,
                          Adj Upper Control Arms -3.0deg front, -2.0 deg rear
                          M2A4 Trans, Cusco 1-way Limited Slip Differential, Stage 2 Clutch and 11lb flywheel. A4 Header, 2" exhaust all the way back, catalyst delete, delta 262 grind, glasspack muffler, PT6 ECU.
                          Acura CL3.0 Brakes Front and Rear, Raybestos St43 Pads, Redline 600 Brake Fluid

                          Comment


                            #88
                            I'm way behind here.

                            We bought an m2s4 transmission. On ebay I found a guy in Russia in a town only about 300 miles from Mongolia that had a Cusco LSD for sale. The dollar speaks loudly in Russia and I bought the thing. It was such a trip to actually do business with and get a package from the country I grew up fearing.

                            We took out the old transmission. To get it out you pretty much have to disassemble everything inside the right side of the engine compartment and the right suspension. Blech. While waiting for delivery we installed the heavier clutch "stage 2" something or other and the 11 pound flywheel.

                            Then the new parts arrived. We opened up both the old and the new. The bottom bearing on the counter shaft on the old one looked like a bowl of pebbles not a bearing. Maybe that was the problem. The rest didn't look too bad except all the metal shavings everywhere. Anyone want to buy a slightly used transmission?

                            I had planned out a scheme to use gears from both to make a close ratio box. 1st, high 2nd, low 3rd, high 3rd, low 4th. Top speed would have been 115 120 but we sure would have gotten there fast. If you've read Tishock's 5th gear swap thread you already know that it wasn't going to happen. Oh well. The insides had to come completely out to access the differential. I'm glad my teammate Tedd wasn't as clueless as me because I felt I was in totally over my head.

                            Now the Cusco diff we got is a clutch LSD and it is wicked configurable. Depending on how you arrange the clutch disks you can choose 60%, 80%, or 100% lockup. I picked 100%. Depending on how you put the x axle in and into which holes, you can have a 2-way, 1.5-way, or 1 way, and you can select if you want it to lock up really fast or a bit slower. I picked 1-way and medium lockup speed (45% angle). If this interests you, google Cusco MZ LSD and find the factory manual. It is an amazing thing.

                            We had to swap the final drive gear off the old diff from the "new" tranny and onto this one then put it in. Then we had to get the main and counter shafts back in and all the shift arms and other bits. Getting the case back on was like playing Operation blind and with 20 pound pliers instead of tweezers. But we eventually succeeded. I hope.

                            I had to go on a backpacking trip with my son's scout troop, which nearly killed me. I'm fat and old and my knees suck and I am live at 50ft not 10,000ft. The we had to do the Marin county fair. Then I had another trip with my wife to a romantic central California spot. Saw the Hearst Castle.

                            So finally I got back to the car. Tedd has installed the transmission and he also finished my started timing belt and water pump replacement. I think he has the suspension mostly back together too.

                            So tomorrow the whole team is showing up to do lots of little things. We need to get it ready to drive and test it. If it doesn't work, we only have one full weekend before the race! Panic!!!

                            So I wish I had some pics to show but I hate picking up my nice phone when my hands are black with grease and dirt. So I keep skipping good photo ops.

                            Here is us at Thunderhill in April.
                            ==========================
                            1991 Accord Lemons Race Car, "The Minnow" RIP
                            1993 Accord Lemons Race Car, "SpaceEx Starship"
                            Neuspeed Race Springs, Koni Sports, Acura CL Rear Sway Bar,
                            Adj Upper Control Arms -3.0deg front, -2.0 deg rear
                            M2A4 Trans, Cusco 1-way Limited Slip Differential, Stage 2 Clutch and 11lb flywheel. A4 Header, 2" exhaust all the way back, catalyst delete, delta 262 grind, glasspack muffler, PT6 ECU.
                            Acura CL3.0 Brakes Front and Rear, Raybestos St43 Pads, Redline 600 Brake Fluid

                            Comment


                              #89
                              We need some help. Our new transmission/clutch/flywheel install isn't working correctly. We believe it is because we cannot fully disengage the clutch. Is there a way to adjust it? The factory shop manual says it is self adjusting. I started a thread about this problem in the technical forum.
                              ==========================
                              1991 Accord Lemons Race Car, "The Minnow" RIP
                              1993 Accord Lemons Race Car, "SpaceEx Starship"
                              Neuspeed Race Springs, Koni Sports, Acura CL Rear Sway Bar,
                              Adj Upper Control Arms -3.0deg front, -2.0 deg rear
                              M2A4 Trans, Cusco 1-way Limited Slip Differential, Stage 2 Clutch and 11lb flywheel. A4 Header, 2" exhaust all the way back, catalyst delete, delta 262 grind, glasspack muffler, PT6 ECU.
                              Acura CL3.0 Brakes Front and Rear, Raybestos St43 Pads, Redline 600 Brake Fluid

                              Comment


                                #90
                                Well we got it fixed. So we don't have to remove the trans again. Race in less than two weeks!


                                The clutch was not disengaging sufficiently. We ordered a new master and slave, but those won't arrive until Wednesday so I came up with an idea. At the max adjustment the full stroke of the clutch pedal was only getting just under 0.5" of travel of the slave piston rod. There was lots of slack in the pedal before there was enagement. I don't know why, but we fixed it. I took the bracket that connects the master cylinder rod to the pedal arm off. I took the bracket to the hard ware store and found a nut and bolt that matched the threads. We use the bolt as a guide and welded the nut onto the bracket which gave me an extra 3/8" or so of range for adjustment. Then I adjusted it like ericthecarguy on youtube showed me. Then we started it up and it shifts so smooth. Like a hot knife through butter. That clutch is lots heavier and really grabs. In one trip around the block I didn't get a chance to make the LSD work but... WE ARE GOING TO MAKE THE RACE!!!! WOOHOO!

                                I bet that the root of the problem was that the flywheel is too thick or the pedals are out of whack somehow. It works now though. LeMons style.
                                ==========================
                                1991 Accord Lemons Race Car, "The Minnow" RIP
                                1993 Accord Lemons Race Car, "SpaceEx Starship"
                                Neuspeed Race Springs, Koni Sports, Acura CL Rear Sway Bar,
                                Adj Upper Control Arms -3.0deg front, -2.0 deg rear
                                M2A4 Trans, Cusco 1-way Limited Slip Differential, Stage 2 Clutch and 11lb flywheel. A4 Header, 2" exhaust all the way back, catalyst delete, delta 262 grind, glasspack muffler, PT6 ECU.
                                Acura CL3.0 Brakes Front and Rear, Raybestos St43 Pads, Redline 600 Brake Fluid

                                Comment

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