Auto Transmission Mechanics Question

[H311RA151N]

I'm sorry, but you can't really compare cylinder wear in a SPLASH lubricated Briggs and Stratton to a pressure lubricated 4 cylinder automotive engine. Whole different ball game.

I’m sorry too because we weren’t talking about a "a pressure lubricated 4 cylinder engine" we were speaking in general. Never were we discussing any engine in particular. Hell, Ryan was bringing up jet engines. Yeah different engines have different qualities, we know that. But saying in general "rev the ever living shit out of it, it won’t hurt it", isn’t true 100% of the time. That was my point.

PR CB7- agreed with pirate

^Then your statement can be irrelevant right along with his.

I still don’t see a whole lot of reason to carry on with this thread. To me it just sounds like a bunch of "Honda guys" (go figure) telling everyone its ok to drag the fucking nuts off their engines because "it won’t hurt it".

[H311RA151N]

^^^^
Re-consider your statement.


^^^^
Think about these two engines. Both are running at 2500 rpm. One with load. The other without load (free revving). Which engine would wear more or faster?

In my mind it’s more like this. Take one engine with a NORMAL load from say 2000rpm and hit WOT until it reaches 7000RPM. Then take one engine without a load from 2000RPM and hit WOT until it reaches 7000RPM. Do this repeatedly for a length of time. Which engine will wear more or faster?

I don’t think the engine without a load would hold together. (Or hold together as well as the engine with a load).

[oyajicool]

I will wait till Ryan replies to my post.

To H311
You haven't clarified or answered to my question (below) yet.

Can you name those things (parts) that would be held by loading on engine? I am trying to understand what you are saying, you know.

[H311RA151N]

I will wait till Ryan replies to my post.

To H311
You haven't clarified or answered to my question (below) yet.

No problem. My idea on this is when the engine is not under load the combustion chamber isn’t as "full" as it is when it’s under load. The main effect of my theory on "holding things in place" is the valves and thus the valve train. Under my theory, when the engine is under a load the combustion chamber is "fuller" resulting in more force against mainly the valves. In my theory, an engine under load would be less likely to float a valve than an engine that isn’t.

What would make the combustion chamber fuller in my theory is the TB is open longer due to the time it takes the engine to "wind up" there is more of a steady flow of air going into the engine because the air has been available for longer at a higher rate of speed.

Also, in my theory, in a fuel injected engine the more of a load an engine is under, the more fuel it will supply. This also resulting in a "fuller" combustion chamber. You can see this is true by the fact that an engine uses less fuel at idle or when it’s not working hard.

This is my theory and for you to add anything I don’t have right or even prove my theory wrong would be appreciated as long as you willing to tell me what’s right also.

[RyanD]

^^^^
Re-consider your statement.

ok ok my bad. it's beyond full pitch right? where the blades are flat against the air stream? i think you know what im talking about

^^^^

Think about these two engines. Both are running at 2500 rpm. One with load. The other without load (free revving). Which engine would wear more or faster?

the one with load because there is more stress on it. but im sure the ware on the engine with load is fractional compared to the engine with no load.

you ware putting more stress on an engine when you add load to it. stress wears shit out.

please correct me if im wrong

[H311RA151N]

An engine with a load will wear faster than an engine without at a steady speed.

But an engine with a load at a steady speed will last longer than an engine with that same amount of load with the RPMs fluctuating. The more the fluctuation, the more the wear. Look at generators for an example. Steady RPMs with a somewhat fluctuating load.

[RyanD]

100% true

[oyajicool]

Like I said before, my engine builder said that free revving a Briggs racing engine was hard on the cylinder walls. IIRC he said something about oil starvation on the walls. BTW below is who my engine builder was, Jerry McLain. He isn’t just some random engine builder.

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti...rformance.aspx

I know we were talking about bearings before which can’t really be proven a whole lot one way or the other. But now were talking about free revving an engine and if it harms it in any way other than excessive but normal wear.

Again its about the rapid increase in RPM, NOT the RPM its self.

http://bsintek.basco.com/BriggsDocum...EXAnfBhU7y.pdf

There's no mention of oil pump on BS Racing engine above as far as I can see. No wonder why these engines are hard on its internal components. And it is hard regardless of operating mode if you ask me.

I would imagine any low power gas generators' engines for home use are pretty much the same in design and construction as above. Lacking oil pump.

You should not bring these engines as an example to forums for automobiles like our Hondas. There's no comparison.

[RyanD]

i really hope we are not starting a fight are we? im not looking to start a fight i just want to get to the bottom of this

[H311RA151N]

http://bsintek.basco.com/BriggsDocum...EXAnfBhU7y.pdf

There's no mention of oil pump on BS Racing engine above as far as I can see. No wonder why these engines are hard on its internal components. And it is hard regardless of operating mode if you ask me.

I would imagine any low power gas generators' engines for home use are pretty much the same in design and construction as above. Lacking oil pump.

You should not bring these engines as an example to forums for automobiles like our Hondas. There's no comparison.

That example shows the extreme effects of taking an engine and using it as it’s not designed. Just like free revving any engine.

[H311RA151N]

i really hope we are not starting a fight are we? im not looking to start a fight i just want to get to the bottom of this

I don’t care enough to fight. But I will give my opinion and give my supporting ideas and examples as I have some schooling and a good 15 years of experience (I started racing when I was 7 and working on my own Kart. I really got into it hardcore at 13). I still am a trans technician. That shows some quality mechanical skills. Maybe not so much about engines but I do have a very good idea of how they work. Ive owned enough and blown up enough to know a thing or two. But there are alot more people that know a whole lot more than me. Sometimes you have to question people to learn something but they have to explain themselves first. And I have to admit that like to learn.

[oyajicool]

No problem. My idea on this is when the engine is not under load the combustion chamber isn’t as "full" as it is when it’s under load. The main effect of my theory on "holding things in place" is the valves and thus the valve train. Under my theory, when the engine is under a load the combustion chamber is "fuller" resulting in more force against mainly the valves. In my theory, an engine under load would be less likely to float a valve than an engine that isn’t.

What would make the combustion chamber fuller in my theory is the TB is open longer due to the time it takes the engine to "wind up" there is more of a steady flow of air going into the engine because the air has been available for longer at a higher rate of speed.

Also, in my theory, in a fuel injected engine the more of a load an engine is under, the more fuel it will supply. This also resulting in a "fuller" combustion chamber. You can see this is true by the fact that an engine uses less fuel at idle or when it’s not working hard.

This is my theory and for you to add anything I don’t have right or even prove my theory wrong would be appreciated as long as you willing to tell me what’s right also.

Pressure inside a balloon is equal everywhere. Pressure does not choose any place in particular to work against. It will be the same in a combustion chamber of an engine, even if there are valves. It does not shoot mainly to valves. A piston will receive more load because of wider surface area than valve surfaces are. That load will be transferred to piston rings, piston pin, connecting rod's both ends' bearings, crank journals and bearings, causing, likely more wear. The more the load, the more wear.

For floating valve, you may want to read below, though it does not explain that much. I am a little tired to go in detail of what I've learnt in school at this moment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valve_float

You had BS racing engine as example for your augment, which is equipped with a carburetor. Is carb equipped engine any different in fuel consumption when in idle speed?

[RyanD]

yea transmission will always be operated by hopes and dreams to me.

its Automagic.

[H311RA151N]

Pressure inside a balloon is equal everywhere. Pressure does not choose any place in particular to work against. It will be the same in a combustion chamber of an engine, even if there are valves. It does not shoot mainly to valves. A piston will receive more load because of wider surface area than valve surfaces are. That load will be transferred to piston rings, piston pin, connecting rod's both ends' bearings, crank journals and bearings, causing, likely more wear. The more the load, the more wear.

For floating valve, you may want to read below, though it does not explain that much. I am a little tired to go in detail of what I've learnt in school at this moment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valve_float

You had BS racing engine as example for your augment, which is equipped with a carburetor. Is carb equipped engine any different in fuel consumption when in idle speed?

The carburetor is the same. But most people on here I figured would understand FI better. I though it might paint a better mental picture.

I’m getting ready to read the link on valve float. Thanks for that.

I chose to use the valves and valve train for my statement because the piston will receive more of the blow but the valves and valve train are typically more prone to the negative effects and damage.

I know and understand that the pressure inside the combustion chamber is the same everywhere the therefore the pressure is the same on all its surfaces and components.

[RyanD]

http://youtu.be/_REQ1PUM0rY?t=2m31s

this shows float quite well