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Old 06-26-2013, 10:17 AM   #1
Casebite
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There needs to be more automatic transmission Information

There needs to be more information about automatic transmissions in cb7s, especially since most cb7s are probably auto. I know in the performance groups think autos suck but maybe they wouldn't "suck" so bad if there was actually more information out there or here. Information like different ecms, different auto transmissions, etc. Increasing line pressure on the transmission, torque converters, transmission coolers are the key in a performance automatic transmission. The dsm community just in recent years have learned about how awesome their autos can get with just line pressure increase. Many 600hp dsms are running with stock autos. food for thought
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:27 AM   #2
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Hate to burst your bubble, but that information is on the site.

What information do you seek specifically? Don't say your whole list or I'll just tell you to search.
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:30 AM   #3
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There's a lot, and I mean a lot of information of automatic transmissions on here, you need to really look. Most half of the members here I bet all have autos, and not all CB7s are mostly autos I think there's a good amount of both ,auto & 5spd.

And you really can't compare DSMs with CB7s...

My first GST was an auto, I sticked to it and there's a lot of built transmissions and torque converters. It's funny because the automatic transmission in a DSM is built to handle a lot of boost, in fact they're almost more reliable than a built 5spd transmission and the DSM community just discovered this.

But the CB7 community, well they're automatic transmissions just aren't in the same level, they can't handle the power, they'll overheat kill the engine.

There's so much information on autos trust me, most info is strictly about maintaining, TCUs, troubleshooting codes(90-91).

Cb7 isn't really a sports car, there's not a lot of things you can do to an automatic transmission since aftermarket parts are so limited.
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Old 06-26-2013, 12:35 PM   #4
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Like you said, most of the information is about trouble codes and maintaining the transmission. I can't find hardly any information about performance.

Dsm or cb7 the basic workings and fundamentals of both auto transmissions are relatively similar. Built for boost or not dsm autos were not designed to handle 600whp but people found ways to do it reliably.

I agree a cb7 is not a sports car but I don't think a dsm is either. Dsm auto transmissions now have a decent aftermarket performance market, but they didn't at all about 6yrs ago yet it's a 20+yr old car.

I agree a factory transmission cb7 or not with more power will overheat, has anyone tried external trans oil coolers? Has anyone increased the transmission's line pressure?

The main reason people don't usually fix up auto transmissions is because of the mass stereotype that they suck, how can you know unless you try it??, because its not easy?
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Old 06-26-2013, 12:58 PM   #5
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Yes, increase in pressure is simple and provides slightly more force in shifting and slightly faster shifting. All you have to do is change springs in the valve body.

To be completely honest with you, your best bet for an auto transmission that is better than the economy one in the Accord would be a better starting point. I have a JDM Prelude auto transmission with closer gear ratios and a factory LSD. Now that is a good transmission to modify. There are a few performance torque converter companies that are more than happy to rework your torque converter to change your stall RPM. To be honest I would start with prelude forums, anything there is applicable here.

Also my CB7 came with a transmission cooler built into the radiator. So it does come factory with an external cooler, considering an internal cooler is in a transmission.

Last edited by wildBill83; 06-26-2013 at 01:04 PM.
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Old 06-26-2013, 01:10 PM   #6
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Yes, increase in pressure is simple and provides slightly more force in shifting and slightly faster shifting. All you have to do is change springs in the valve body.

To be completely honest with you, your best bet for an auto transmission that is better than the economy one in the Accord would be a better starting point. I have a JDM Prelude auto transmission with closer gear ratios and a factory LSD. Now that is a good transmission to modify. There are a few performance torque converter companies that are more than happy to rework your torque converter to change your stall RPM. To be honest I would start with prelude forums, anything there is applicable here.
Thanks for the input, I've been searching around on honda-tech for more info as well. Can the pt6 shift the jdm prelude transmission properly with the lower rev limit?
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Old 06-26-2013, 01:17 PM   #7
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I am using a programmable TCU I made that works basically ok. The PT6 has nothing to do with the transmission, that is the ECU. If I wanted the best match TCU it would only cost me around $100 to get one from eBay. I'm still deciding on exactly how I'm going to use the transmission the best possible. I'm thinking it will go into my sedan with an H22A4 after I convert the LX to auto. But that is far in the future. I'm going to be working on my turbo F22A6 paired with the LX U4 transmission first, then I'll come back and finish my H22A4 build. Who knows the H22A4 may end up in my coupe eventually, but I'll want a different manual transmission for it though.

Last edited by wildBill83; 06-26-2013 at 01:20 PM.
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Old 06-26-2013, 02:49 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casebite View Post
Like you said, most of the information is about trouble codes and maintaining the transmission. I can't find hardly any information about performance.

Dsm or cb7 the basic workings and fundamentals of both auto transmissions are relatively similar. Built for boost or not dsm autos were not designed to handle 600whp but people found ways to do it reliably.

I agree a cb7 is not a sports car but I don't think a dsm is either. Dsm auto transmissions now have a decent aftermarket performance market, but they didn't at all about 6yrs ago yet it's a 20+yr old car.

I agree a factory transmission cb7 or not with more power will overheat, has anyone tried external trans oil coolers? Has anyone increased the transmission's line pressure?

The main reason people don't usually fix up auto transmissions is because of the mass stereotype that they suck, how can you know unless you try it??, because its not easy?
Well, maybe it's because it's been said and proven that a standard transmission is better than an automatic transmission. Reliable maybe not so much, bit a standard transmission will put more power to the wheel.

You can built an automatic transmission yes, but compare that to a built standard transmission with a nice lightweight flywheel good clutch.

Yes they're both automatic transmission they both work the same, except one can handle more WHP and one can't. Obviously a built transmission(any) will obviously handle the power but is it worth invested a good amount of money to a Honda automatic transmission?

Well I have to disagree on that DSMs aren't sports are especially the turbocharged ones, they're indeed a sports cars, the 4G63T is one the best turbocharged engines in the world, and no automatic transmission weren't as big as they are no 6-10 years ago. And yes they've catched ways to make a performance line for them, I've seen a GSX with an automatic tranny do 600whp+

You can do what ever you want to an automatic transmission, we live in a beautiful world of modifications. But how far is an auto going to take you? What would an automatic transmission be good for other than drag racing?
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Old 06-26-2013, 03:03 PM   #9
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the only time id want an automatic transmission for is being stuck in traffic.
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Old 06-26-2013, 03:11 PM   #10
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I have an H22a auto with factory LSD. Its not installed yet but some of the things Im doing since its out of the car. Number One most important, Im using an external trans cooler, its about 12x7 inches.
The stock transmission "cooler" is nothing more than a brass pipe with 2 nipples sitting in the radiators bottom tank. Its not cooling anything, its making your transmissions oil run the same temp as your engine coolant. In the winter this might help.. but overall kills them esp with lacking maintenance. I intend to womp on it so external cooler was the only option.
Other things include a complete ATF drain including the torque converter, plus input and output seals. Since its JDM im not cracking it open, Im sure its varnish free inside considering how cherry it looks on the outside. If it was domestic thatd be another story.
The main thing is if youre performance orientating and running an auto an external cooler should be the first upgrade from the stock transmission heaterahem cooler.. Heat kills transmissions faster than horsepower or torque, so thats why I feel it is of great importance.
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Old 06-26-2013, 05:17 PM   #11
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If you feel this site needs more information about our automatic transmissions, feel free to be the one to provide it.
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Old 06-26-2013, 06:52 PM   #12
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most things that come boosted from the manufacturer are reinforced to the extremes sometimes
especially from mitsubishi

the twin turbo 300zx trannys used to see 30psi like it was nothing
same goes for the 3kgt vr4s

i believe a mp1a is able to handle 300whp with just a cooler
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Old 06-26-2013, 07:09 PM   #13
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Forced induction makes some massive torque. Any manufacturer that doesn't beef up their stuff to handle that is asking to be put out of business!

Just as the internals of our engines aren't made for forced induction, neither are our automatic transmissions built to handle extreme power. I've seen it done, but building an automatic to handle high power is always the smartest option. Not just adding extra coolers and performance fluid (while that helps), but actually beefing up the insides. That gets expensive, which is one reason many people avoid it. Our manual transmissions often handle more power with less reinforcement, simply because they are less complex devices.

Our 4 speed automatics aren't ideal for N/A applications due to the gearing, as well as the increased drivetrain losses. Since we have relatively small engines, in relatively heavy cars... it's not a good combination.
Turbo with an automatic makes more sense, and has been done a few times on here. Turbo with 4 long gears (and an automatic that keeps the turbo spooled... it's like "power shifting" a manual) makes for a pretty potent performer, at least in a straight line. As long as the transmission is capable of holding the power, it's not a bad option at all.
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:43 PM   #14
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...The stock transmission "cooler" is nothing more than a brass pipe with 2 nipples sitting in the radiators bottom tank. Its not cooling anything, its making your transmissions oil run the same temp as your engine coolant. In the winter this might help...
So had a situation with a buddy's car where the line/fitting going into the rad was rusted, rather than replace the rad, he just bypassed the rad and re-routed the lines to an external cooler, figuring the tranny would be better off.

I wondered if a possible disadvantage of this would be in stop-and go traffic, where the external cooler would get less action from the fan than the line in the coolant rad, but dismissed this concern as I still thought it would be cooler overall. Where I was really curious was in cold temps (Canada cold temps) how this would affect tranny performance/reliability, especially just after startup before the gears turning or conductive heat from the engine had a chance to warm up the fluid. He did it in Feb and it made it through the rest of the winter fine and is still going - any thoughts on how important the warming aspect of tranny fluid in the rad is?
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:52 PM   #15
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So had a situation with a buddy's car where the line/fitting going into the rad was rusted, rather than replace the rad, he just bypassed the rad and re-routed the lines to an external cooler, figuring the tranny would be better off.

I wondered if a possible disadvantage of this would be in stop-and go traffic, where the external cooler would get less action from the fan than the line in the coolant rad, but dismissed this concern as I still thought it would be cooler overall. Where I was really curious was in cold temps (Canada cold temps) how this would affect tranny performance/reliability, especially just after startup before the gears turning or conductive heat from the engine had a chance to warm up the fluid. He did it in Feb and it made it through the rest of the winter fine and is still going - any thoughts on how important the warming aspect of tranny fluid in the rad is?
I figure come winter I can let the car idle a few more minutes and allow the transmission pump to do its thing indeed causing frictional warming. I dont really see it harming things. If i was in sub arctic or an intense cold snap came thru Id just allow it to idle longer. On that note I should see if I have room on the backside of the radiator to mount the trans cooler instead of the front, the heat off the rad should keep it cozy Im sure once drive is engaged and torque is applied things warm up fairly quickly to operating temperatures
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Old 06-29-2013, 01:13 AM   #16
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Our 4 speed automatics aren't ideal for N/A applications due to the gearing, as well as the increased drivetrain losses. Since we have relatively small engines, in relatively heavy cars... it's not a good combination.
I 2nd that did some mountain touge and absolutely no power out of the corners. Probably saved me form going off the cliff cos I hit some black ice.

Was wondering if the autos can take an LSD in them like the Quaife one??
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Old 06-29-2013, 01:30 AM   #17
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H22 MP1A is a factory auto with LSD.
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