RBC Manifold on H22a?? Wiring question also

[EastCoastLife]

I'm thinking about putting a rbc mainifold on my obd1 H22a.
It's kinda pricey. Is it worth it? Cause the adapter is about the same price
I did a small amount of research on it and it says about 14hp over the euro r.
Which is cool but the benefit I like is it does away with the flaps that are in the H22a manifold correct?? I don't want to deal with running that wire to the switched ignition and to the ecu. Let me know your thoughts.

[sonikaccord]

Skunk2 K series manifold adapter $165
OR
QSD KIM $219

RBC ~$220
+Throttle body adapter
+Throttle body because why not run a larger throttle body if you are going through all this
+Manifold work required
+H series injectors would require more manifold work
+Fuel rail depending on which injectors you run
+IACV relocation

I would say no, and just grab some cams.

[deevergote]

Don't be drawn in by peak hp numbers, either. I don't know this manifold, so it might be quite good... but it's also highly likely that the 14hp over the Euro R manifold (assuming it's true) is in a narrow, high RPM range. A 14hp gain over the Euro R may be better on paper, but the Euro R manifold may still offer a more useful powerband.

Doing away with the "flaps" is not actually a good thing, unless you're trying to build a serious all-motor race car (in which case you'd want to run ITBs, and screw this whole plenum shit...) The "flaps" are the functional part of the H22 manifold's IAB system, giving you a broader powerband. Essentially, it functions much like VTEC... allowing greater velocity at low RPM, and greater airflow at high RPM. Too much flow capability will make for a soggy low end. Too little will choke the engine up top. The IAB system gives you the best of both worlds.
Again, a broad, usable powerband is far more valuable than peak horsepower. Peak horsepower is for dyno queens and hood poppers. A broad powerband will put a smile on the face of a competent driver. Especially when they're winning a race.

[EastCoastLife]

Great words. Thankyou kind sir's for you valuable input. I'll be sure to keep my stock manifold for now. I just liked the rbc look. I'm sure I'll modify the intake side in the near future with this info in mind.

Thanks again

[Jarrett]

The Euro-R manifold is the only "aftermarket" manifold that will gain usable power below 5000 rpm over the standard H22A intake manifold. Above that, the Skunk2 manifold was always the one to have because of the sheer volume. In the past 3 years, though, people have been hogging out the OEM intake manifold to make massive plenum volumes. This is great for high-RPM or turbocharged cars, but you WILL see a significant drop in power in the lower RPMs.

The benefit to the Euro-R manifold is that it makes proven, streetable power. Not a lot more, but more, pretty much all over. The negatives generally revolve around the rarity and the cost of getting it adapted to fit. When you find them, they are often times just a bare manifold. That's great, if you can find it for under $200, because the cost of adapting it to fit your P13 casting H22A head. Rosko charges $150 for his modifications and shipping back and forth will run you about $50. So if you buy a bare manifold for $200, then spend $200 to get it functional, you're not in a good spot to start spending another $300 to get all of the necessary parts to run it. You'll need a EuroR-specific fuel rail, injectors to fit it, an IACV adapter, throttle cable bracket and an EGR cover. I think I have over $950 into mine. I added it before, but I forgot. I basically have nothing OEM on it anymore, though.

It's best to find a used one that is complete with the throttle body, injectors, and sensors just to have everything in one place. Usually those are over $300, but you can spend the $200 to have it modified, buy the IACV adapter and throttle cable bracket, make a fuel hose to extend it to the other side of the engine than the factory hose puts it, and you're gold! Even still, that will run you around $600 to get it into that condition. Despite this, people think they're sitting on gold with them, so they charge quite a bit.

[sonikaccord]

$950 into your Euro-R? Wow!

Well I guess I'm on the other side of the spectrum.
I got my Euro-R manifold for 0$
Spent the $130 on Rosko's parts
Did the minor fab work myself, although I'm running a PDE head so that makes it a bit easier.
Bought a 70mm throttle body and a Hondata gasket.
Reusing my IACV, injectors and fuel rail, and EGR valve from my H22a4
So I'm roughly about $250 in.

I would say you would need to spend at minimum $150 at Rosko to get it working if you do the work yourself and use all stock parts. Good luck finding one!

[Jarrett]

$950 into your Euro-R?

That's if you buy one bare like Steve from HMO or Rosko sells them. If you bought a Euro-R swap, or the whole manifold from an engine, then it can be much cheaper as you have some of the parts needed to make it work already. They may not be the blingy bits, but they're serviceable. I bought mine from ebay.co.uk and spent about $315 on it. I had a PDE head from an H23A VTEC, but no one had CNC prgrams for it in order to get it ported. So I dedicated a P13 head from one of my other H22As and sent the manifold off to Rosko. From there it just sort of domino-ed.

[deevergote]

That's one reason I avoided such mods. I always ended up dominoing just by making initial plans. "If I'm going to do this, I should do that at the same time. But then I'll need this. And I would be stupid to do all of this work and not do this other thing too!" Next thing I know, I've racked up a theoretical bill in the thousands!

[Jarrett]

I'm still guilty of doing it. I need to get the car back on the road so that each time I want to make a modification, it's a decision that must be made with a time component. The further I let it domino, the longer it will be undrivable.

Anyway, the original question was about a K-series manifold and not the Euro-R. I just wanted to make the point about how even though it might be better than some.other options, it may not be cost effective because of all the other mods required to make it work.

If you want big power at the expense of bottom end and some driveability, the hogged out H22A manifold is the way to go. Notice Skunk2 doesn't even make a manifold for that engine anymore.

[CyborgGT]

70mm throttle body might be too big for a Euro-R. I thought the inlet could only be ported out to 68mm?

That "dominoing" is what I ended up doing to myself. Recently I've been cutting things out of my build list that can wait until after the car is running just so I can get this driving already. I'm down to about $1700 left to buy in parts... and then who knows how much on machine work (unfortunately I need a re-sleeve, and want some head port work done) and dyno tuning.

It seems you won't be able to find a 'new' Euro-R manifold, though. I asked Rosko about one two and a half years ago, and he said this:

I spoke with Steve spring of 2014 and told him to order 6 more for me, he said 2-3 months and I said OK get them coming. I pass this info on to my customers, some gave money up front and others waited patiently. After about 3 months I had not heard anything yet and gave him a call to find out that nothing had been ordered. I pretty much gave up after that and refunded my customers money or set them up with something else. I'm not sure what the deal is to be honest, but I couldn't keep promising my customers a date knowing that date was going to come and go. Everything about getting these over the past few years has been a struggle and even though my customers have been patient it always (in my eyes) makes me look like a dick. I can't do business like that. I don't want to have to call and check in every week and keep nagging on a company to get me what I need. If you tell me something will be here then make damn sure it is. 1 month always turns into 3-4 and finally I had enough. Sadly there aren't any other companies that import these (at least that I know of), there are a few that advertise them but I think what I figured out is that they just source them from H motors as well.

I still offer the same services if you are able to source your own, and I still produce all the a parts but from here on out I don't expect to ever stock these again.

There are other options though. I've developed an alternative over the past few years and that is the fabbed upper plenum and modified lower. These have proven to be the better option and I highly suggest you check those out if you haven't already.

Luckily, one of Rosko's previous customers was trying to sell his complete manifold at that time, so he got me in touch with that guy. $773 for a Euro-R manifold that came with the full Rosko treatment, 68mm throttle body, fuel rail, and freshly-serviced RDX injectors w/pigtails. Just want to get an adjustable FPR for it still.

I plan on doing an RBC comparison further down the line to see for myself the differences. I got a shorter RSX-S manifold (PRB, I think it is; $50 Craigslist find) to try because it would more easily clear the Accord's rear mount bracket, but then ESP came out with their low-profile bracket so I shouldn't have to worry about RBC clearance issues anymore.

[sonikaccord]

Ahh the domino effect...aka the "while I'm in there" effect, aka the "might as well" effect.

The outlet of the throttle is 68mm. If you didn't care about the IACV port, then you could hog it out to over 70mm.

I would definitely be interested in what longer k-series runners would do for the H's power. I have a feeling there would be nice bump in the midrange.

Jarrett, love the setup. I need to grab some of those RDX injectors, and a fuel rail, and a FPR...there's that domino thing again.

[CyborgGT]

I would definitely be interested in what longer k-series runners would do for the H's power. I have a feeling there would be nice bump in the midrange.

I would love to get my hands on a Civic Type R's RSP manifold. Seriously doubt it could fit into an Accord/Prelude, though.