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Old 04-21-2014, 10:10 PM   #1
ts14
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need high output alternator

okay so my car finally hits the road and everything is perfect until 15 mins later my guages zero out and my car starts dying

first thing i did was put in a new batt assuming that my battery was dead and it ran perfectly fine again for about 15 more mins till the same thing happened again. i then checked my alt and discovered that its fried

my goal is to throw in 4kw sound system in the near future so an upgraded al was already in the plans. problem is that the only high output alt i can find is the dc alt for the cb accord.

question is that will the alt for the dc accord (f22b) be a direct swap or will i need to do some mods? also what other options do i have? i have checked boss load but im hesitant on buying their alts.


any advice/help will be greatly appreciated
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Old 04-21-2014, 10:31 PM   #2
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/90-93-NEW-HO...a76dfa&vxp=mtr
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'93 H22A 5SPD SE - MRT - DIY-Turbo Sizing - Chassis Dynamics Data
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Old 04-21-2014, 10:38 PM   #3
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https://www.dcpowerinc.com/fit/Honda...39-270-xp.html

was really hoping for something in that area but not sure if it fits
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Old 04-22-2014, 06:39 AM   #4
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It says that puts out 190 amps at idle. Damn.

I have the alterstart 170 amp. It is a good alt. But not in the same category as that one.

But it is about $400 cheaper too. I'll be watching this thread. For updates if you get that alt.

steve

Oh Yes that will fit. The only difference will be it will have bigger pulley for the belt. But you can still use without worry. I ran a compressor from a 97 for about 3 years until the compressor died. Belt never jumped or anything.

http://www.powerbastards.com/products.asp?cat=190

i dont know anything about this one SPLcb7 has one though
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Old 04-22-2014, 08:57 AM   #5
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Old 04-22-2014, 02:13 PM   #6
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So I ended up getting the load boss 170 alt because I need the car to hit the road ASAP. Although I have talked to mechman alt guys and they were willing to build a universal 320 amp alt for my car. That being said, it means that I have to get a shop to fab a bracket and wire this thing to my car but for the price ( I believe it was 599) it's worth the deal compared to the dc alt which is more expensive and has less output
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Old 10-02-2014, 10:31 PM   #7
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Any update on how that Load Boss worked out for you?
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Old 10-03-2014, 07:30 PM   #8
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Anyone ever hear of an high output ALT wrecking the ECU of a vehicle?
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Old 10-03-2014, 07:56 PM   #9
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Yes. I have.

With all car mods there is always some dumbass that half asses it and then bitches on the net.

Most of my reads were regarding fires due to undersized wires for the High Output alternators. Just like in your home your different size wires carry diff size loads.

steve

I've had 3 with no troubles.
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Old 10-03-2014, 08:43 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoner51 View Post
Yes. I have.

With all car mods there is always some dumbass that half asses it and then bitches on the net.

Most of my reads were regarding fires due to undersized wires for the High Output alternators. Just like in your home your different size wires carry diff size loads.

steve

I've had 3 with no troubles.
Ya, i'm referring to the ECU and not the wires.
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Old 10-03-2014, 09:00 PM   #11
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What has happened to the ECU?

I'm running the same ECU as you. My voltage has gone up to 15 and I don't seem to have any adverse affects.
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Old 10-03-2014, 09:29 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoner51 View Post
What has happened to the ECU?

I'm running the same ECU as you. My voltage has gone up to 15 and I don't seem to have any adverse affects.
The "Big 3" and all other upgrades being done already, I've just always wanted to upgrade my ALT. But I've had many shops and stereo shops tell me to not do it. That the wires leading to the ECU and the ECU itself is made to run on 12V source. The constant pounding over time will damage the ECU. All seems correct to me as the components of the ECU were made to run with a certain volt / gauge in mind as well as the wires which make up the cars harness.

A friend who competes in stereo competitions swears by this. He runs dual batteries w/ capacitors rather than a high output ALT. He runs a 3K system, OEM ALT with no issues.
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Old 10-03-2014, 09:49 PM   #13
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I understand what you are saying. But.

On the average my alt runs 14.4. Which is normal voltage for automobiles. Occasionally it will spike. It may have spiked at startup with the regular alt. I just didn't look.

The alternator has a voltage regulator to adjust the voltage. You are wanting the alternator for the increase in amps. Most HO alts don't put out more voltage. They Do put out more consistant voltage because it has more amperage avail.

That is all from my reading. and my first hand experience.

I think most people who do audio competitions use two batteries. Bc I think most of those are done with the car off. Therefore you need more reserve bc the alt is not on.
Most Amps have two different numbers for their output. one at 12v and one at 14.4v. Obviously the amp puts out more at 14.4v.

Just some thoughts. I'm sure Sonikaccord will chime in as he knows much more than me.

But I Have not had any problems and would not go back to a stock alt.

steve
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Old 10-04-2014, 12:52 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raf99 View Post
The "Big 3" and all other upgrades being done already, I've just always wanted to upgrade my ALT. But I've had many shops and stereo shops tell me to not do it. That the wires leading to the ECU and the ECU itself is made to run on 12V source. The constant pounding over time will damage the ECU. All seems correct to me as the components of the ECU were made to run with a certain volt / gauge in mind as well as the wires which make up the cars harness.

A friend who competes in stereo competitions swears by this. He runs dual batteries w/ capacitors rather than a high output ALT. He runs a 3K system, OEM ALT with no issues.
An alternator is regulated, it wants to keep it's output at 14-15v to charge the battery. if the regulator decides to take a dump and shoot 20V through your car then things are going to fail. There is a tight correlation between current and voltage such that to deliver more current the alt has to make more voltage.

Higher voltage = less current = smaller wires. There is no such thing as a '12V rated wire' to my knowledge. If it is, it's snake oil and would probably make a good bit of money. Wire is only rated for current capacity.

The ECU has filter caps to absorb those voltage spikes, AND it has what is called a 'Linear Regulator' which steps that 12v nominal down to 5v to be used for the processor and memory and all that jazz. The good thing about those linear regulators is that they will operate over a relatively large voltage range, 6.xV all the way up to ~20V. The main issue is they get very inefficient (read:HOT) when you stray too far from the voltage that it's supposed to maintain. (And the thing that bothers me is that there is no thermal interface material between the regulator and the heat sink. I would suggest adding thermal paste between the 2 as it will help the regulator dissipate heat better.)

Also the electrolytic capacitors in the filter are old as dirt, and probably wayyyy past their useful life so when those voltage spikes occur, they have an opportunity to go around that buffer and straight to the regulator. The regulator gets too hot and dies, if you are lucky it will open and protect the rest of the ecu. If it shorts, you'll be sending high voltage (relative to the digital stuff) to your chips and they'll fry instantly. Another thing about caps...they have voltage ratings. I think our ECU has 16V rated caps, so 14.6V is too close to that rating especially given the age of the devices. They like to derate with age too.

If your friend competes in SPL...well that's another topic. Let's just say HO alts are pointless in most competitions as they can't deliver the current. More batteries means less voltage drop, more power and less of a chance of killing an amp.

TL: DR

You'll be fine with a GOOD HO alt. Your ECU is old and it would be wise to upgrade/update the caps and add thermal compound to the regulator.
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Old 10-04-2014, 11:35 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonikaccord View Post
An alternator is regulated, it wants to keep it's output at 14-15v to charge the battery. if the regulator decides to take a dump and shoot 20V through your car then things are going to fail. There is a tight correlation between current and voltage such that to deliver more current the alt has to make more voltage.

Higher voltage = less current = smaller wires. There is no such thing as a '12V rated wire' to my knowledge. If it is, it's snake oil and would probably make a good bit of money. Wire is only rated for current capacity.

The ECU has filter caps to absorb those voltage spikes, AND it has what is called a 'Linear Regulator' which steps that 12v nominal down to 5v to be used for the processor and memory and all that jazz. The good thing about those linear regulators is that they will operate over a relatively large voltage range, 6.xV all the way up to ~20V. The main issue is they get very inefficient (read:HOT) when you stray too far from the voltage that it's supposed to maintain. (And the thing that bothers me is that there is no thermal interface material between the regulator and the heat sink. I would suggest adding thermal paste between the 2 as it will help the regulator dissipate heat better.)

Also the electrolytic capacitors in the filter are old as dirt, and probably wayyyy past their useful life so when those voltage spikes occur, they have an opportunity to go around that buffer and straight to the regulator. The regulator gets too hot and dies, if you are lucky it will open and protect the rest of the ecu. If it shorts, you'll be sending high voltage (relative to the digital stuff) to your chips and they'll fry instantly. Another thing about caps...they have voltage ratings. I think our ECU has 16V rated caps, so 14.6V is too close to that rating especially given the age of the devices. They like to derate with age too.

If your friend competes in SPL...well that's another topic. Let's just say HO alts are pointless in most competitions as they can't deliver the current. More batteries means less voltage drop, more power and less of a chance of killing an amp.

TL: DR

You'll be fine with a GOOD HO alt. Your ECU is old and it would be wise to upgrade/update the caps and add thermal compound to the regulator.
Yep ^^^^ this. I was implying that for our cars (being old) a high output ALT can do some damage to the ECU.
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Old 10-07-2014, 10:46 PM   #16
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Old 10-10-2014, 08:35 PM   #17
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id just like to throw out there, that if your car is running and youre only getting 12v somethings up with the charging system. A healthy reading is 13.6 volts.
1.2 - 1.4 volts more isnt going to make a difference. The ecu's only going to use as much energy as it needs, that extra volt is negligible, you could have 500 amperes being supplied and the ecu could care less, if peoples ecus are frying, it was probably because they were on their way out, something failed inside or what have you and because of the short when that happened and the increased amperage the failure was just that more epic. its not the HO alts killing the ecu, unless their output is jacked up. (my amps rated to 17v and ive read some SPL guys will run very high voltage and amperage to get the higher SPL numbers.)


those dc power alternators do look sweet, something ill consider running with single ought welding cable or knukonceptz for my lanzar amp. also for consideration is a slightly beefier than stock alternator, and a 15,000 farad boostcap bank which would be good to 16.2 volts (itd only charge to whatever the max voltage of the system is, a little extra padding for safety, each cap is max 2.7 volts.)

anyway thats my 2 cents.
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