Announcement

**AccordWarrior** · 03-21-2017, 08:40 PM

You need to post more info here.

- What's your budget?
- Are you looking at payments or buying in cash?
- What are you must haves?
- What are deal breakers?

There may be other vehicles that will meet your needs and/or budget.

**cb7 calling** · 03-21-2017, 09:33 PM

More info

20 ish is the budget. I'm glad you asked as low miles is one of my factors and high mile versions of all those are cheaper.
So low miles, blue tooth, nice stereo and auto is all she really cares about. Well that and Honda. I could get away with like a Mercedes cla or low end bmw as far as she is concerned but repair bills scare me.
The longer story is the whole ten years we have been together we buy cash so currently that puts us in a 2005 6 or 7 tsx with basically no other options. We are not in a hurry as her car runs but I would like to put her in air conditioning before summer. She will basically pay for the car through financing I'm just the car guy/ down payment help/ picking the car. I can't work on anything where we live now so I'm really looking for a sensible option which for me too always leads back to the H. If we still lived in ohio the TL sh awd would be far handier than here where it snows every three years. We also don't have much need for size as it's just us. The TL remains on the list because two years into payments I don't want to think shoulda got the "nicer" one. The accord provides value for features and the tsx is maybe the best overall car made lately? I say that with a little reservation as my folks have a k24 in their crv that ate enough oil to have the rings replaced under warranty at 50,000. I don't know how related that is to the one in the tsx but they do drive like old folks.

**toycar** · 03-22-2017, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by cb7 calling View Post

The tsx is maybe the best overall car made lately

This is my opinion

Pay the extra for the extra if you can swing it. The car will retain value better, you'll enjoy it more, it'll be more comfortable/nicer creature features etc

Nothing bad to say against the accord, its just not the tsx. Especially if you can hold out for SH-AWD

**hiptech** · 03-22-2017, 01:43 PM

As the owner of an 04 TSX I'm a little biased but still love my car especially with the 6-spd manual. FWIW there is also the fact that all TSX's were imported from Japan while the TLs were assembled stateside if that means anything.

The 2nd gen TSXs did have the V6 as an option but to this day I've never seen one in the wild and based on reviews it didn't help the handling dynamics either.

There is a great site I recommend you look at if you're interested in real world reliability, fuel economy, etc. reported by owners. I personally contribute my data each month and have for years.

Code:

https://www.truedelta.com/

Since there is no such thing as a perfect car (or anything) my best advice is to buy private and preferably from someone who has as much documentation as possible. Bills, receipts, invoices anything with legit parts, service and mileages will all help validate the authenticity of the mileage and show the car was properly taken care of.

Most dealers don't know what they have and there is ample evidence that most cars in dealer inventories have tampered odometers. Lastly if you find a car you just can't live without by all means take it to a reputable and qualified mechanic and pay them to check out everything. It's money well spent given the downside if you don't...

BTW, there is a podcast I listen to called "Everyday Driver" where one of the hosts personally owns a Scion FR-S and lives in Utah. He seems to have proven beyond any doubt it's possible to drive a rear wheel drive sports car in heavy snow without the benefit of AWD. Many people over look the use of winter tires in the snow belt and incorrectly conclude there is no way their cars will work with anything other than FWD or AWD... wrong. So if you end up with Accord or TSX don't let that hold you back.

Lastly if it came down to an Accord Touring and a TL I would suggest the Accord. The Honda will retain it's value better, cost less (slightly) for parts and service, less to insure and be somewhat more reliable long term especially against the TL.

**Rilas** · 03-22-2017, 02:01 PM

Why does the TL have the requirement of SH-AWD and the other two don't? I mean the other two are just going to be FWD vehicles, why couldn't you get a TL that is just FWD? I would suggest the TL without the requirement of the SH-AWD, now don't get me wrong I would love the SH-AWD on a TL. It's a side-grade from the TSX but it's got a bit more room in it. The milage would be a little less with the V6 compared to the I4, but later you wouldn't be kicking yourself for buying the smaller car.

**deevergote** · 03-22-2017, 02:05 PM

I agree on buying private, unless you can find a dealer (like CarMax) that will give you a worthwhile warranty. Otherwise, you're paying a dealer markup for something that is likely no better than what you'd get in a private sale.

Anyway, your picks are good ones. Personally, I liked the 1st gen TSX much more than the 2nd gen, but they're old cars now. Magazine reviews seemed to like the 4 cylinder TSX much more than the 6 cylinder variety, so sticking to the 4 cylinder seems like a good plan if you go that route. For the most part, the K24 doesn't seem to be terribly problematic. The TSX will come at a premium over the Accord, while offering only a little more. Whether you go for the TSX or not would largely be determined by how much those extras mean to you. The TSX will probably have a more refined interior, better sound deadening, and possibly a more luxurious ride. Just keep in mind that when something breaks that isn't shared with the Accord, you'll be paying Acura repair prices.

The Accord is by far the most sensible option. It lacks luxury prestige, and will probably lack a bit of the refinement of an Acura, but you'll get the most car for your money with an Accord. My only complaint with the Accord is that it's common. It's boring. The new Accords don't excite me at all. That being said, my reasons for not being excited by the Accord are fairly silly... and I think it would be absurd to dismiss such a good car for said reasons. Ultimately, the Accord is probably the one to get.

Finally, the TL SH-AWD... the car on your list that I most want for myself. V6 power, AWD, stunning looks (especially the earlier ones, before they toned it down to appease the whiners...) It's an absolutely beautiful car, with enough performance to keep a driver entertained. That being said, it is by far the least practical option. The V6 will be thirsty compared to Accord and TSX. It's a heavier car as well. SH-AWD is awesome, but you probably don't need it for North Carolina winters. When something breaks, the car is largely Acura... and far more complicated than the Accord or TSX. That means there's more to break, it won't be cheap to fix, and you may not be able to fix it yourself. Scary, if you're not totally prepared for it! If you go with the TL, I would highly recommend only buying from a reputable dealer that offers a hefty warranty.

If you want reliable, affordable, and the most car for your money, you'll be hard pressed to do better than the Accord. If you want luxury with only a little extra expense and risk, go for the TSX. If you want to say F it all and go all out, the TL SH-AWD is a fantastic option.
It all comes down to what you want, what you need, what you can comfortably afford, and what you can actually find. If there's no rush, don't settle.

**hiptech** · 03-22-2017, 02:39 PM

I do mostly agree with deevergot except for a few items in the TSX comparison with the Accord. The TSX is more similar to the Accord than the TL even though both are based on the same platform.

The TSX was actually sold outside North America as the "Accord Euro" where it was available in several versions with different engines, wheels and suspensions... in fact outside the US it included the same IP gauge cluster as the North American Accord.

When Acura decided to offer the TSX it choose the top line model with no options except to offer a no cost choice between the auto and manual trannies (in the first gen).

The main difference in the domestic versions of the TSX is in the engine where compression is bumped up and it "REQUIRES" (not recommended) Premium Fuel. So there is that to consider too.

There is also differences in the suspension setup which makes the car handle better at the expense of ride comfort. Not harsh but noticeably firmer. Plus the smaller size and lighter weight of the TSX makes it more maneuverable but at the expense of rear seat leg room. Not terrible but you should sit back there just to be sure.

The TL on the other hand is a different animal and as mentioned offers more tech, better performance but at the expense of higher insurance, lower fuel mileage and feature complexity (especially with SH-AWD) that will inevitably become a larger financial liability as the car ages.

So in the end it comes down to the age old decision; power, performance and features versus reliability, value and cost-effectiveness.

Other than this I very much agree with deevergote's summation... "If you want reliable, affordable, and the most car for your money, you'll be hard pressed to do better than the Accord. If you want luxury with only a little extra expense and risk, go for the TSX. If you want to say F it all and go all out, the TL SH-AWD is a fantastic option."

BTW, it's not for everyone but if a 2nd gen TSX Sport Wagon should appear in your search it's definitely worth a look. I personally prefer a wagon to an SUV as do most Europeans. While it's slightly slower due to a small increase in weight it's better balanced due to the rear weight and more practical for hauling. A very acceptable compromise over a comparable SUV IMO. It's mostly in North America ppl seem to believe an SUV is better...

**deevergote** · 03-22-2017, 03:11 PM

I agree on the wagon. Wagons are awesome! Most here would likely agree. It's funny... wagons these days are basically enthusiast vehicles.

And yes, the TSX is based on the Accord, but being based on an Accord from another market, it really is a fairly unique platform. The TSX will definitely offer a significantly different experience than the Accord.

cb7 calling, have you considered the ILX? I know it's basically an Acura Civic... but it has been very well received. Acura luxury and prestige with largely Honda reliability and repair costs. Seeing as its the "cheap" Acura, you could probably find an off-lease or CPO ILX for a fairly reasonable price. Unless you absolutely need a larger vehicle, I'd say it's worth considering.

**hiptech** · 03-22-2017, 03:43 PM

Sorry deevergote can't agree with you on this one...

Code:

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2015/03/2016-acura-ilx-first-drive-review/index.htm

Though I do find it baffling on how Honda/Acura managed to start with a very good Civic platform and managed to turn it into an upmarket mess?

**deevergote** · 03-22-2017, 03:50 PM

That's honestly the first negative thing I've ever seen about it. I think the issue is that people are expecting a car that is more than it is... which is a Civic. It is perhaps a bit less refined that something bearing the Acura badge should be, but ultimately it is still a Civic.
The good thing is that an off-lease or CPO model is likely to have taken the largest hit on depreciation, meaning an ILX could be had for a reasonable price (and it would be unlikely to drop significantly in value from that point on.)
That article does praise the 2016 model somewhat, which COULD be coming off lease in the next few months (some lease terms are 24 months, and "next year" models often arrive at the end of summer... though that would be too late to provide a vehicle with AC for the summer.)

**hiptech** · 03-22-2017, 05:54 PM

Here's another useful tool:

Code:

http://www.dashboard-light.com/

"Dashboard Light is our attempt to offer free information about the long-term reliability of vehicles, forever.

When you search for the long-term reliability of any used car at Dashboard Light, you’re looking at the collective results of over a million vehicles that have been independently inspected by ASE certified mechanics and professional car buyers.

Our study, now called the Long-Term Quality Index, is over four years old and has been designed to focus specifically on those older vehicles that fall off the radar as vehicles age.

Unlike J.D. Power, which focuses their studies on the earliest portions of a vehicles life, and Consumer Reports, which regulates its study to surveys filled out by owners of late model vehicles, LTQI has been designed to assess the long-term reliability of used cars from the point they are three years old to the end of its life cycle."

Check out Acura specific results scroll down to "Acura Quality Index Ratings"

Code:

http://www.dashboard-light.com/reports/Acura.html

This should be interesting to most here:

Notice the trend from the 7th Gen onward... sad

Code:

http://dashboard-light.com/issues_about.html

**cb7 calling** · 03-23-2017, 07:26 AM

Originally posted by Rilas View Post

Why does the TL have the requirement of SH-AWD and the other two don't? I mean the other two are just going to be FWD vehicles, why couldn't you get a TL that is just FWD? I would suggest the TL without the requirement of the SH-AWD, now don't get me wrong I would love the SH-AWD on a TL. It's a side-grade from the TSX but it's got a bit more room in it. The milage would be a little less with the V6 compared to the I4, but later you wouldn't be kicking yourself for buying the smaller car.

Because to me the TL fwd is very similar to the accord touring but different badges. If this statement is made in ignorance please explain.

So I knew the first gen tsx was a world market accord but is that the same case in these later models? It sounds like that's what hiptech is saying. How about the v6? If so that means something to me because I have less faith in the United States specific engineering.

Deeve, the ilx was on the list. The car that started this whole thing was the new civic and still my wife still keeps saying lets just get a civic. I basically over my dead body kinda way will not pay 20 plus for a cvt. So the ilx has a standard slush box and even a dual clutch auto in the new ones but still only 150 hp unless you go stick. (If she would learn to drive a stick life would be easier)heck we could kill this whole thread if she would go stick I would go big, convertible m3 she could hand me down once paid off and get something else. That's a dream though. Or an s2000 she would fit that perfect and I could drive it with the response to any stigma "well it's my wife's". Ok back to reality
I'm 99% certain 150 hp won't get it. Her current civic is 140hp turd. Newer cars are two heavy for that and Honda really dropped the ball there.
The tsx is the sensible front runner for sure but not by far. Honestly all these cars are too big but this is America and I will get used to it. I kinda fear with the TL/ accord a couple years from now I would still be hearing this is too big.

So again what are the real differences between the accord touring( which means loaded) and the TL fwd w technology? And is the tsx still a world market accord? Are my most prominent questions currently.

**hiptech** · 03-23-2017, 08:49 AM

This should answer your questions about the TSX:

Code:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acura_TSX

And here is your answer if the TSX is a world market Accord:

Code:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Accord_(Japan_and_Europe_eighth_generation)

As for your question "...what are the real differences between the accord touring( which means loaded) and the TL fwd w technology?"

I think it mostly comes down to features, ride and handling dynamics. It's an oversimplification but there are other nuances that won't be apparent until your wife and you drive them all.

For example way back in March of 03 when I first test drove the 6-spd TSX back to back with the automatic I immediately noticed the slight performance difference. But I also noticed the 6-speed felt better balanced too. These are subtle things you can't read about and have to experience to see if it's right for you.

Aside from the other things we mentioned concerning insurance, repairs, premium fuel requirements, etc. only you (and your wife) will know what is acceptable.

LOL the best advice I can offer is do whatever makes your wife happy since she will be driving it mostly and... "happy wife, happy life"

**deevergote** · 03-23-2017, 10:50 AM

The TL is related to the Accord, but it's not a rebadge. It's not like the Lexus ES and Toyota Camry. More like Civic and Integra. Perhaps even more distant. Still, I get what you mean about the TL FWD checking most of the same boxes as the cheaper Accord.

The TSX is a foreign market Accord, even in the 2nd generation (from what I could tell...looked it up yesterday.) it's still a very different platform, though.
I'd avoid the V6 myself. Apparently it totally compromises the agility that made the 4 cylinder models so fun.

Also, don't totally discount a car because it lacks power. My 2600lb Fit had 117hp, and it was extremely fun to drive!

Announcement

New car for the wife

New car for the wife

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment