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Old 10-14-2010, 01:25 AM   #61
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This is a cost-benefit ratio fail.
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Old 10-14-2010, 01:39 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djcaz_aom View Post
Who says I don't have one laying around...hehehe
because if you did then it'd be a build thread instead of a question thread...

but it would be a cool thing to look at i guess...
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Old 10-14-2010, 02:05 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbluesleepR View Post
ok, i had this well worded response, but my computer fucked up and i lost it. the key point was that if you really want to run a reverse-head h22 just to be different from everybody else, be prepared to run the x-trac transmission it was designed to work because no other honda transmission will work, they all spin the wrong direction. also be prepared to pay the $6-10,000 for said transmission.
To my knowledge, the motor still rotates normally. The only difference is that the head is turned around. The Odyssey that has this type of setup is just running a regular 5 speed.
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Old 10-14-2010, 02:11 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike1357 View Post
To my knowledge, the motor still rotates normally. The only difference is that the head is turned around. The Odyssey that has this type of setup is just running a regular 5 speed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by djcaz_aom View Post
The original F20B/ H22A spins counter-clockwise. The X-Trac sequential transmission used spins clockwise for the forward gears. The engine was altered to rotate clockwise (like a K-Series), thus allowing the use of the transmission. Also by reversing the head, it put the ITB's in front and with the custom intake boxes created a ram air for the ITB's. A lot more difficult in the rear.
please read the thread before you post in it. i havent seen that oddessey, it would be a completely different motor setup than the jttc ones if it was running the stock tranny.
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'It's now very common to hear people say, "I'm rather offended by that", as if that gives them certain rights. It's no more than a whine. It has no meaning, it has no purpose, it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. "I'm offended by that." Well, so fucking what?' —Stephen Fry

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Old 10-14-2010, 02:37 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by steelbluesleepR View Post
please read the thread before you post in it. i havent seen that oddessey, it would be a completely different motor setup than the jttc ones if it was running the stock tranny.
I'm the one that started the thread and I've read every post and the Odyssey was in my very first post. The race cars ran a reverse rotation so they could use the transmission that needed reverse rotation to work, but the setup doesn't necessarily have to have a reverse engine rotation. The only difference between this and a stock H22 is the head is turned around. The intake and exhaust valves and manifolds are still on the same side of the head as they would be normally, but in relation to the pistons it is reversed.

This is a picture of the Odyssey's engine bay:




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLxdEmfnv_Q
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Old 10-14-2010, 02:40 AM   #66
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you're right, i'm sorry. its late and i should be in bed.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Fry
'It's now very common to hear people say, "I'm rather offended by that", as if that gives them certain rights. It's no more than a whine. It has no meaning, it has no purpose, it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. "I'm offended by that." Well, so fucking what?' —Stephen Fry
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Old 10-14-2010, 02:47 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by djcaz_aom View Post
Who says I don't have one laying around...hehehe
...me...
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Old 10-14-2010, 02:49 AM   #68
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i dont see why your princess feelings are getting hurt...i said it was cool. just not practical...like at ALL.
dont get mad because you can not produce any fact or truth to any of this.
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Old 10-14-2010, 03:07 AM   #69
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LOL that guy in the video is dumb
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Old 10-14-2010, 03:18 AM   #70
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i dont see why your princess feelings are getting hurt...i said it was cool. just not practical...like at ALL.
dont get mad because you can not produce any fact or truth to any of this.
What the hell is your problem? I mean you went out of your way and re-edited your post to add further insult.

What fact or truth needs to be presented? The proof that it can be done on a DD is right there. The only thing you're getting hung up on is the pricing. You're insulting me based on the costs? I'm quite confused here.
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Old 10-14-2010, 03:28 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb7_with_snail View Post
i dont see why your princess feelings are getting hurt...i said it was cool. just not practical...like at ALL.
dont get mad because you can not produce any fact or truth to any of this.
of course it isnt practical for the street. it is a straight up race car solution to a problem that wouldnt exist anywhere but the racetrack. dont take anything the guy with the oddessey said, he is an idiot who doesnt know what he's talking about (and does janky work).

Quote:
Originally Posted by cb7_with_snail View Post
...me...
fucking sarcasm dude. learn how it works.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Fry
'It's now very common to hear people say, "I'm rather offended by that", as if that gives them certain rights. It's no more than a whine. It has no meaning, it has no purpose, it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. "I'm offended by that." Well, so fucking what?' —Stephen Fry
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Old 10-14-2010, 03:40 AM   #72
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To humor you...
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb7_with_snail View Post
Basic Process List:
*Possibly a new crankshaft. - Eagle Crankshaft $750
*"Neil Brown" head gasket is needed for the reversal. - $100 being generous
*Modify camshafts to fit in the head backwards and to use a smaller cam seal. - $100 for lathing costs
*Reroute the high pressure oil line for lubricating the cams. - Stainless braided lines $100
*Insulate oil lines since they will be located in the area of where the header would be located. - Fire wrap $50
*Relocate oil filter. - Kits on ebay from $50-$120
*Run oil lines so that VTEC can engage properly (possibly the most difficult part). - more stainless oil lines $100
*Use another system for fuel ignition since the distributor has clearance issues with the thermostat housing. - AEM engine positioning module $240
*Possibly ITB setup and custom header. $500 for the header and OBX ITB's for $600
Comes out to $2,660.

$2,660 =/= $6,000
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Old 10-14-2010, 05:01 AM   #73
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Even when a thread calms down, someone STILL has to come back and make a stupid comment.

I can't be bothered deleting all of the worthless posts in here, and I don't want to close this thread either.

Stay on topic with worthy comments, or bans will follow.




Btw - If the engine is going to run in reverse rotation, that means the pistons will need to be flipped around as well to get the correct thrust faces.
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Old 10-14-2010, 05:19 AM   #74
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heres a vid of the motor in a van..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laJaQ...eature=related
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Old 10-14-2010, 10:09 AM   #75
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I may have had a minor epihpony(sp?) here:

ok, say you do decide to swap the head and crank, following the JTCC idea of getting the engine turning clockwise rather than counter-clockwise as origionally designed, wouldnt it be relatively simple/feasible to make a HtoK setup with a spacer, plate, and mounts similar to that of an H2B kit?

Think about it, with the amount of fabrication necessary for it to work, it just seems like thatd be a viable solution. You'd be able to run a new-tech trans already proven beefy enough to handle the power, and also have the option of a 6-speed LSD from the factory....

Even with the little things like the electronic speed sensors found with the 06+ 6-speeds, it'd still be feasible when you take into account the engine management you'd be using in order to get it functioning and properly tuned.....

As far as the ignition system:

Check this out: http://www.t1racedevelopment.com/t1cam.html Granted its B-series from the link, but Im sure it could be modded to fit an H, given its all the same style, basically...


Basically, it turns your cam gears into a type of hall-effect sensor, where the feed reads from teh cam gear and tells the EMS crank position/etc, which is how the EMS decides which cylinder to send spark to. A buddy of mine ran this on his Civic with Autronic EMS and was extremely pleased with the results....

Now, say you dont want to dump the money into pulling the head-flip off without a major HP increase. Id think you'd be able to give Mahle a ring and have a custom set of FRP slugs forged and cut for the setup..... Or do as most others and re-sleeve the block, go from there.....?

With the cost it would take to do it and do it effectively, might as well think outside the box, right?


On another note, anyone actually owned a ITB setup car? There is a reason you dont see them around much; dependability/reliability. If you live anywhere that isnt absolutely beautiful year round, or unnaffected by the change in the seasons it'd definately be more feasible. On my experiences here in CO, theyre extremely finicky, and for one main reason:

No more MAP sensor; no way for the computer to adjust fuel trims/etc based off of the MAP readings the ECM sees.....because its not there anymore....

Thats why, 90% of the time cars you see with ITBs arent DD's, theyre show/track/trailor queens. ITB's are worth the $ for the performance gained, but for driveability/reliability/etc, Id think a custom manifold would be in order.....and it could be done fairly easily with a lil sheetmetal fabwork.....


.....that is all.....carry on.....
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Old 10-14-2010, 10:35 AM   #76
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one thing i have thought about is if the trans and motor spin clockwise, like the k series, wouldn't the tranny have to be on the driver side, like the k series

if it was on the pass. side then you would have 5 or 6 speeds in reverse
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Old 10-14-2010, 03:12 PM   #77
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You can tune itb's off TPS and have a compensation table setup up based on air intake temperature. Also, you can use a manometer to get the pressure differential inside the velocity stack. This is what Bisimoto has done.
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Old 10-14-2010, 03:40 PM   #78
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good to know! Didnt have that the last time I did a setup for a customer.... But then again 90% of my customers use S300 or Neptune....
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Old 10-14-2010, 04:06 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by h22cb719 View Post
good to know! Didnt have that the last time I did a setup for a customer.... But then again 90% of my customers use S300 or Neptune....
90% of everyone seems to use crap like that...people don't realize how much a good EMS can really help. Not only in power production, but things like launch control, traction control, throttle response, fuel economy, boost and nitrous control, etc.
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Old 10-14-2010, 11:45 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h22cb719 View Post
I may have had a minor epihpony(sp?) here:

ok, say you do decide to swap the head and crank, following the JTCC idea of getting the engine turning clockwise rather than counter-clockwise as origionally designed, wouldnt it be relatively simple/feasible to make a HtoK setup with a spacer, plate, and mounts similar to that of an H2B kit?

Think about it, with the amount of fabrication necessary for it to work, it just seems like thatd be a viable solution. You'd be able to run a new-tech trans already proven beefy enough to handle the power, and also have the option of a 6-speed LSD from the factory....

Even with the little things like the electronic speed sensors found with the 06+ 6-speeds, it'd still be feasible when you take into account the engine management you'd be using in order to get it functioning and properly tuned.....

As far as the ignition system:

Check this out: http://www.t1racedevelopment.com/t1cam.html Granted its B-series from the link, but Im sure it could be modded to fit an H, given its all the same style, basically...


Basically, it turns your cam gears into a type of hall-effect sensor, where the feed reads from teh cam gear and tells the EMS crank position/etc, which is how the EMS decides which cylinder to send spark to. A buddy of mine ran this on his Civic with Autronic EMS and was extremely pleased with the results....

Now, say you dont want to dump the money into pulling the head-flip off without a major HP increase. Id think you'd be able to give Mahle a ring and have a custom set of FRP slugs forged and cut for the setup..... Or do as most others and re-sleeve the block, go from there.....?

With the cost it would take to do it and do it effectively, might as well think outside the box, right?


On another note, anyone actually owned a ITB setup car? There is a reason you dont see them around much; dependability/reliability. If you live anywhere that isnt absolutely beautiful year round, or unnaffected by the change in the seasons it'd definately be more feasible. On my experiences here in CO, theyre extremely finicky, and for one main reason:

No more MAP sensor; no way for the computer to adjust fuel trims/etc based off of the MAP readings the ECM sees.....because its not there anymore....

Thats why, 90% of the time cars you see with ITBs arent DD's, theyre show/track/trailor queens. ITB's are worth the $ for the performance gained, but for driveability/reliability/etc, Id think a custom manifold would be in order.....and it could be done fairly easily with a lil sheetmetal fabwork.....


.....that is all.....carry on.....
I really didn't even think about a K series trans. It would probably take a bit of development, but an H to K adapter would definitely be a realistic possibility.

From reading, it sounds as if the EMS is similar in function to the EPM. Either way that type of setup seems very practical when you can't use the stock distributor.

I haven't seen a ton of ITB setups, but I don't really take seasons and such into consideration since I live in FL. I didn't think about other climates, but it would definitely be a factor to consider. I like the custom manifold idea though, especially since it could still work on a regular H swap and applications like this one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by quaidum View Post
one thing i have thought about is if the trans and motor spin clockwise, like the k series, wouldn't the tranny have to be on the driver side, like the k series

if it was on the pass. side then you would have 5 or 6 speeds in reverse
I think that's the case, but if people can swap K series in I don't see why it couldn't be possible to use the same method to turn the H series around.

Idea:
If you're turning the H around to use the K series trans, wouldn't that in effect put the intake inboard again? So instead of doing the whole head swap, just leave the H as it is, make an H to K adapter, reverse the engines rotation and end up having essentially the same type of setup with the intake towards the front of the car?

I'm a little turned around with how the engine with reverse rotation would hook up to a K series trans so if I'm figuring wrong then it's just me being severely confused.
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