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Old 08-15-2012, 09:31 AM   #1
EsperHamid
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Crazy Bad Mileage, CB7 consuming fuel like crazy

Dear all, I decided to open a thread instead of hijacking the Fuel Efficiency Compilation. I need to know which of these might be contributing to a bad mileage and crazy fuel consumption.

Note: I don't want answers on how to solve the below problems, I need to know if one or more are causing this bad mileage:

my car ( Accord CB7 1990 EX F22A4) is consuming fuel like a horny .... well u know.

- did I overtightened the PSP Belt and the alternator Belt ?! does that has anything to do with it ?! I do not possess a Torque Wrench yet to know how much N.m I've tightened.

or

- ( this is a mistake I've done ) when I wanted to replace the Dizzy, I removed the NGK sparkplugs so that the I can turn the rocker arm faster and when I replaced everything again, I noticed a knocking sound from the engine. DJ Ender, told me I fucked up .... LOL .. did it without informing him first.

or

- I had replaced my broken PCV valve with a honda 2000 PCV valve which look smaller and I get a bleeping sound from it when I first start the engine.

or

- I haven't replaced the fuel filter yet since I bought the car from someone 7 months ago

or

- Since the time I bought it and I get the EGR CEL on my board after driving for a little while. Still I haven't done this project because I didn't have the time and my local honda dealer ( I live in Asia ) told me that we don't have them (EGR PLUGS) cause my car is old maybe I will order them from the internet.

or

Lastly, my third spark plug cable has motor oil on it, the others have none. Also I have 3 NGK sparks with same code ( writing came with blue box Nashville, USA) and a 4th NGK with a different code.

Can any of the above mentioned is the main culprit in my car consuming fuel that breaks my wallet ?! knowing that I rarely drive.

well yeah ... HELP !!!!!!

Last edited by EsperHamid; 08-19-2012 at 04:17 AM.
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Old 08-15-2012, 09:40 AM   #2
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Egr
Fuel filter
pcv
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Old 08-19-2012, 04:16 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryandavis33 View Post
Egr
Fuel filter
pcv

Thanks man, I was trying the basics of the fuel efficiency thread and cleaned the throttle body with carb cleaner taking EricTheCarGuy video as a reference.
and then I removed the spark plugs cleaned them with CarbCleaner dried them with shop towel and then cleaned the sparkplug wires with carb cleaner too.

re-installed everything, turned on the car and I had saw smoke coming from the engine bay area with a burning smell and the engine shrugging, after 15 minutes smoke disappeared the shrugging disappeared but ........ weirdly the car idled on P ==> at 1000 RPM, on N ==> 1200 RPM and surprisingly on D4 ==> normal range 700 RPM ( with my foot on brake )

checked the Dizzy Timing, it was perfect 15 degrees on red mark, FITV tight and IACV clean, so what could it be the problem ?! .... kinda sucks really !!
it wasn't like that before, it was idling perfectly on 700 RPM being P/N/D4
also when I turn off the engine while on Park, the RPM dropes from 1000 to 0 with one shot !!

any ideas ?! please !!!!!!!!!! I was hunting the OP problem now I am hunting something new DJ Ender, any ideas ?!
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Old 08-19-2012, 10:33 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EsperHamid View Post

Thanks man, I was trying the basics of the fuel efficiency thread and cleaned the throttle body with carb cleaner taking EricTheCarGuy video as a reference.
and then I removed the spark plugs cleaned them with CarbCleaner dried them with shop towel and then cleaned the sparkplug wires with carb cleaner too.

re-installed everything, turned on the car and I had saw smoke coming from the engine bay area with a burning smell and the engine shrugging, after 15 minutes smoke disappeared the shrugging disappeared but ........ weirdly the car idled on P ==> at 1000 RPM, on N ==> 1200 RPM and surprisingly on D4 ==> normal range 700 RPM ( with my foot on brake )

checked the Dizzy Timing, it was perfect 15 degrees on red mark, FITV tight and IACV clean, so what could it be the problem ?! .... kinda sucks really !!
it wasn't like that before, it was idling perfectly on 700 RPM being P/N/D4
also when I turn off the engine while on Park, the RPM dropes from 1000 to 0 with one shot !!

any ideas ?! please !!!!!!!!!! I was hunting the OP problem now I am hunting something new DJ Ender, any ideas ?!
have you tried messing with the IAC thing? does it do the weird idle while it is cold or all the time?
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Old 08-20-2012, 08:59 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryandavis33 View Post
have you tried messing with the IAC thing? does it do the weird idle while it is cold or all the time?
as I said earlier I removed the air duct and cleaned the throttle body with carb-cleaner as recommended by the fuel efficiency basics & per EricTheCarGuy instructions. during that time IACV was still ON

Black residue went out of the throttle body air duct opening but maybe some of the inside residue went into the IACV. After that, you posted the above post. I checked the ECU it was throwing code 14 then I checked the resistance of the IACV between 8-15 OHM and the valve was working properly, there was voltage and it "clicked" too. This is where you got me curious to remove the IACV and this is what I've found:


I used carb-cleaner and cleaned the IACV

the above picture is of the matching holes of the IACV on the throttle body should I use carb-cleaner to clean them or not !! if yes do I have to remove the air duct again ?!?! or will cleaning these holes send the carb residue inside the intake manifold as the throttle body is on top ?!

as for your question it does it all the time on "P" and "N" high RPM when idle first one 1000 the other 1200, before it didn't until I cleaned the throttle body

Last edited by EsperHamid; 08-20-2012 at 09:03 AM.
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Old 08-20-2012, 09:45 AM   #6
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Another issue related to the second guess in the thread OP which was the title of an old thread of mine. "- ( this is a mistake I've done ) when I wanted to replace the Dizzy, I removed the NGK sparkplugs so that the I can turn the rocker arm faster and when I replaced everything again, I noticed a knocking sound from the engine. DJ Ender, told me I fucked up .... LOL .. did it without informing him first. "
I went on all open and decided at last to remove the engine cover not 1 hour ago, this is what I found ,, caused by a previous oil overfill I guess. THE RED ARROWS where the valve are pinched non-movable, the others are movable, the 3 cylinder has an oil well problem and the 2nd cylinder, when I torque the spark plug it doesn't fit in as easy as the others but it does rotate with a little force until it is snug. Yes, I am having engine misses with low to middle speeds, and hesitations from a dead stop.



and yeah ...... please help

Last edited by EsperHamid; 08-20-2012 at 09:51 AM.
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Old 08-21-2012, 09:10 AM   #7
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hey guys, would someone please take a look @ my thread before I attempt anything, I'm still waiting for your guyz.
here are photos on the inside of the throttle body holes where the IACV fits, they look pretty dirty, should I spray Carb Cleaner inside them or not ?!


Last edited by EsperHamid; 08-21-2012 at 11:44 AM.
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:34 AM   #8
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is that normal ?! cylinder numbers 2345
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:49 AM   #9
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After all this work you have been doing, have you been resetting the ecu, base ignition, and base idle? How do you valves sound? Do they make a loud ticking?
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Old 08-23-2012, 04:39 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by dj_ender View Post
After all this work you have been doing, have you been resetting the ecu, base ignition, and base idle? How do you valves sound? Do they make a loud ticking?
Thank GOD !!! the DJ is Back !!!

well yeah I heard a ticking and from the right side, I think it is only one valve. and I had an oil well problem in cylinder 3 and I cleaned the throttle body with carb cleaner but then when I turned the car ON, I had smoke from the engine bay, maybe I soaked the throttle body, after like 15 minutes the smoke was gone, but I smell fuel in the engine bay area and the engine would idle 1200 on N and 1100 on P, on D4 it would be 700 rpm idle. the engine would choke a bit sometimes.

I then decided to remove everything !! LOOOL, well yeah I removed IACV and it seems it got all the residue from the throttle body, notice how dirty it is ... well it is shining now, I did change the lower spark plug seals under the rocker arm and cleaned the assembly a bit, the last picture. notice the cylinder numbers were 2-3-4-5 instead of 1234 this car is weird


well I haven't reinstalled anything yet was waiting for someone to reply to me with something ...before I reinstall ...well now I need to know if I can clean the throttle body holes that mate the IACV holes with carb cleaner or NOT ( Fearing that carb cleaner will find its way to the intake manifold)? then after that I will post any results.
<== I'd be glad if I get some advice on this, couldn't find anything about it on the internet !!

Last edited by EsperHamid; 08-23-2012 at 04:43 AM.
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Old 08-23-2012, 04:09 PM   #11
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That rocker arm assembly looks really grimey, I would take that off and clean it first and hopefully it will stop sticking. My guess is previous owner was lazy with oil changes for that kind of buildup instead of your theory that it was overfilled. Watch ericthecarguy's vid on youtube when he changes all the seals you will see what it should look like.
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Old 08-23-2012, 05:00 PM   #12
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I would change a couple basic things to see if it helps,

throughly clean EGR ports & EGR valve

seafoam car

fuel injector cleaner

replace fuel filter

replace spark plugs

replace cap and rotor

remove and carb clean the O2 sensor
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Old 08-23-2012, 07:25 PM   #13
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2-3-4-5 I believe is just number so you put it back together the same way it came apart, I think there is a 1 there somewhere, maybe even a 6
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Old 08-24-2012, 03:01 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eightyfour84 View Post
That rocker arm assembly looks really grimey, I would take that off and clean it first and hopefully it will stop sticking. My guess is previous owner was lazy with oil changes for that kind of buildup instead of your theory that it was overfilled. Watch ericthecarguy's vid on youtube when he changes all the seals you will see what it should look like.
well I removed the assembly following Eric the Car Guy video, so I am referencing him and CB7 Tuner before I start anything, seals already changed that was the EASIEST part ^___^

I cleaned it as mush as I can but I feared it would be a friction problem if I thoroughly cleaned all the oil from it or am I mistaken ?! Yeah the build up was horrible !!! still until now I am not able to re-install it, 1-2 rocker arms get really pinched ( depending on how you rotate the camshaft ) is that normal ?! and I was still in the phase of inserting the bolts by hand !!!

I guessed then why not adjust the valves to create some clearance and following Eric's video, I found out my locknuts and screws where UN-ADJUSTABLE AT ALL !! due to the carbon build up. I used some carb cleaner and a real amount of force using a 10mm wrench to release them .... I removed all the 16 nuts and screws and cleaned them with carb cleaner,

I then reinstalled the assembly without the locknuts and screws and tightened the bolts by hand and they seem to fit no problem !! .... only the first rocker arm was unmovable that's because its back was hitting the cam lobe on the first piston which is normal right ?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by excalibur02 View Post
I would change a couple basic things to see if it helps,

throughly clean EGR ports & EGR valve

seafoam car

fuel injector cleaner

replace fuel filter

replace spark plugs

replace cap and rotor <== done

remove and carb clean the O2 sensor
will be doing the rest after I insert back the assembly and do the valve adjustment. I need an answer to the holes on the TB, the one I highlighted in green in my previous post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1990exr View Post
2-3-4-5 I believe is just number so you put it back together the same way it came apart, I think there is a 1 there somewhere, maybe even a 6
yeah I noticed, sorry !!


So please fellow tuners give me your feedback on this

Last edited by EsperHamid; 08-24-2012 at 03:05 AM.
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Old 08-24-2012, 03:40 AM   #15
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update: I noticed oil in the Bolt holes that hold the rocker assembly, could that be the problem when I install the assembly it's not fitting ?! also when I remove it again, I notice oil all around the cylinder holes but not in them, even though I replaced the seals, could it be gushing out of these bolt holes ?!

I am drying them up now ... if there should be oil in the 12mm bolt holes please tell me so I stop drying them !!
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Old 08-25-2012, 12:55 AM   #16
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DANGER !!!!!!!!: Guys I am one of those unlucky people in life and I could really use the support as quick as possible !! I'm F***KED ...well nothing wrong with the rocker arm assembly yet !! ... the problem is that I lost a 10 mm socket in the engine bay when I was torquing the bolts so I started searching for it to continue my work, suddenly my hand hit the below and the cap came off quickly, after an hour or so, I managed to locate the cap but I don't know if it is missing something I fitted the cap by mating the holes both on the base and the cap ... what is it used for ?!!? it has 2 vacuum hose disconnected !! .... where do they fit ??!!!! HELP !!



I also noticed while searching the following with a disconnected vacuum hose attached to it and laying on the beam ==> what is it ?! and what is it used for, where does it fit, is it important !!! .... I am stopping all work on the rocker arm assembly and I am waiting for your feedback

its back side:

Last edited by EsperHamid; 08-25-2012 at 01:00 AM.
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Old 08-25-2012, 07:37 AM   #17
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update: I broke a bolt one of the long 12mm in the center of the assembly cage it seems that my clicker N.m torque wrench wasn't quite accurate I'm in trouble !! can i continue without it will it be a problem ?! I will do them by the normal wrench until I feel them tight.
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Old 08-25-2012, 12:32 PM   #18
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why is my thread in the technical and not the beginner forum !? weird
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Old 08-26-2012, 12:59 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EsperHamid View Post
update: I broke a bolt one of the long 12mm in the center of the assembly cage it seems that my clicker N.m torque wrench wasn't quite accurate I'm in trouble !! can i continue without it will it be a problem ?! I will do them by the normal wrench until I feel them tight.
No, you can not continue, those 12mm are important. you need to remove and replace that bolt. what you broke in the previous pic was the vacuum control for your auto rear mount, easy to replace. you can when get away without it for a short time.
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Old 08-26-2012, 11:19 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dj_ender View Post
No, you can not continue, those 12mm are important. you need to remove and replace that bolt. what you broke in the previous pic was the vacuum control for your auto rear mount, easy to replace. you can when get away without it for a short time.
Dear Dj_Ender ,

as I said, I found the cap and reinstalled it as shown in the second picture, I am just asking if there's something missing from it, also it has two vacuum tubes that are disconnected as shown in the picture above, where should I connect them to ?!

as for the 12mm bolt, I'll search for one.

Last edited by EsperHamid; 08-26-2012 at 11:33 PM.
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