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Old 12-13-2006, 06:40 PM   #41
Gen4Acclude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by owequitit
I am going to give you a hint. Stop being confrontational.

I could care less if he wants to swap a 70HP D15 in there.

I am also not saying that he has to be like me.

He is obviously looking for guidance, and I am giving it to him.

Don't be all butt hurt because everyone else in thread pretty much disagrees with you.

I don't think it is worth the effort to swap the engine for an extra 5 HP and 5lb/ft of torque, when he can take A6 stuff, and an H series plenum and TB, and get equal results and extra rev range.

Sorry, I have dealt with them all too.
wasnt be confrontational
what he swap is his choice
and who he want to be like it up to him
i am giving guidance as well
and i can careless if the whole world disagrees with me im just saying that the motor is good and a little better perormance and i do mean a little and just as buildable
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Old 12-13-2006, 07:28 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NaturalRoots
so which one do you like better f22a or f22b
the f22a is a verry good motor imo, so is the f22b. i got a good deal on my b1,(free99) and i wanted to do somthing diffrent, thats another reason i did my b1 swap. before i shaved the head mod for mod i was about the same as an f22a, i pulled alittle harder in the midrange and on the top end but it was not enough to really talk about. as for the ecu question i ran a poa and took it back out in less than 10 min. it sucked!!!!. i got better midrange and a hell of alot more top end with the stock ecu and a vafc. the parts and options like intake manifolds and such for the f22a are more common, but they are there for the b1.my best advice to you is listen to everyone and filter out the bullshit. there are quite a few people on here that have the b1 swap, some like them some dont. its an easy swap and cheap. its good to be diffrent and try alot of things. i say fuck it do the swap, mill the head, get a vafc and have fun. if you dont like it boost it,juce it or do another swap, just as long as you have fun, thats why we all spend the time and money anyways right
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Old 12-13-2006, 11:24 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gen4Acclude
wasnt be confrontational
what he swap is his choice
and who he want to be like it up to him
i am giving guidance as well
and i can careless if the whole world disagrees with me im just saying that the motor is good and a little better perormance and i do mean a little and just as buildable
Almost every post in this thread has been short or confrontational. Keep in mind that people can't hear your tone, so they have to infer it.

If you don't want to seem like an ass, you have to be careful what you type.

And yes it is good guidance.

But the effort of a swap isn't worth 5HP IMO.

It is too easy to get that out of the F22A that is already sitting in the car.
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Old 12-14-2006, 09:10 PM   #44
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I hear what everybody is saying but I am doing this swap just to try something new and be able to compare things. I am going to try and use the tach with the shift lift until I get the poa chipped ecu and see how that works. as for mill the heads I will try it also never done before and what is a pafc?
how does milling the heads works?
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Old 12-14-2006, 09:14 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gen4Acclude
yes i was the one that told you that, i am still doing that way right nowmy self while im waiting for the ecu the be shipped, hook a wire to the green/ yellow vtec wire on the solenoid tothe wire with a tracer going to the light on the tach, do you know what a tracer is
nah not really I am still in the learning stage lol
can you tell me exactly how to do it? I appreciate it.
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Old 12-15-2006, 10:09 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NaturalRoots
I hear what everybody is saying but I am doing this swap just to try something new and be able to compare things. I am going to try and use the tach with the shift lift until I get the poa chipped ecu and see how that works. as for mill the heads I will try it also never done before and what is a pafc?
how does milling the heads works?
its a Vafc and it is a piggyback fuel controller kind of like a laptop hooked to your ecu. and to mill the head you have to remove the head and take it to a machine shop. all they do is mill down the surface so you get higher compression. it cost me about $75 for them to mill 40 thousands of material off the head. i went kind of extreme but it was worth it.
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Old 01-11-2007, 05:26 PM   #47
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Well For everyone that said that the f22a4 to f22b1 vtec is a straight swap, it not true
I had to switch my vacuum and fuel lines to the other side of the engine then then side engine mount need a different base. I also had to change my drive axle because the old one was to short.

I need help still to wire the vtec to the ecu. I need to know which pins in the plug I need to switch around and add. can anyone help me.


As I continue with everything I will be posting the results. pictures soon drop
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Old 01-12-2007, 03:06 PM   #48
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i dont know what condition your old motor is in but wouldnt a head swap w/ milling the b1 head be easier and faster plus gain more bc of the milling?
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Old 01-17-2007, 09:08 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kc8enb07
i dont know what condition your old motor is in but wouldnt a head swap w/ milling the b1 head be easier and faster plus gain more bc of the milling?
Yeah, thats what I'm figuring. My accord has 200,xxx and runs with mad torque still. However since I don't know when the t-belt/hg/h20 pump was done last, I might do them and swap in a shaved (maybe 20-25 thousands) f22b1 head. They are cheap in the u-pulls about $50.

I don't think my h23 intake manifold will bolt up will it? Can the f22a1 dizzy work?
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Old 01-17-2007, 10:33 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos325
Yeah, thats what I'm figuring. My accord has 200,xxx and runs with mad torque still. However since I don't know when the t-belt/hg/h20 pump was done last, I might do them and swap in a shaved (maybe 20-25 thousands) f22b1 head. They are cheap in the u-pulls about $50.

I don't think my h23 intake manifold will bolt up will it? Can the f22a1 dizzy work?

The H23 manifold bolts right to the F22Ax head, but not the F22B1.

I will also give you a power hint.

The most powerful F22A made 140HP. The most powerful F22B1 made 145 HP. So you have a difference of 5HP.

If you put a Delta regrind camshaft in your F22A head, and put an H23 manifold or an F22A6 manifold with an H series plenum, I can GUARANTEE you will be making 10-15HP more than the F22B1 head.

Here is why:

The H23 manifold/F22A6 manifold with an H series plenum will allow the car to breathe to 6500 RPM with ease.

The Delta regrind is good for 15-20 WHP depending on which grind you get.

The cam shaft alone will more than make up the difference, and it costs $100.

The manifold will also increase power, and if nothing else, will allow you to utilize the extra powerband the cam will provide.

The cam does not require any other valvetrain modifications in order to work.

Here is why the F22Ax head is better than the F22B1 head (they are COMPLETELY different):

The F22A head has an almost ideal valve angle. I don't know about the valve angle on the F22B1, but I do know that most VTEC engines do not have as good of a valve angle. This includes the H22 and other DOHC VTEC motors.

The F22A can run a huge nasty cam without too many worries. Much larger than most other Honda engines in fact.

The F22A has ports that are far superior than those on the F22B1. What do I mean by that?

If you put the two heads next to each other, you will see that the F22B1 has ports that are much more round, smaller in size and hide the valves more. This is good for fuel economy, but not for power.

Then when you look at the F22A ports, you will see that they are much much more oval, and quite a bit larger in size. This means more flow.

You would have to port an F22B1 head quite a bit, just to get the ports to be the same size as an F22A STOCK. I don't know if you can port the F22B1 enough to equal a ported F22A head.

Everybody assumes that VTEC is god.

1) The VTEC in the F22B1 is not designed to be performance oriented. All it does is open 1 intake valve at low RPM's for better emmissions and torque. Then at higher RPM's it starts to open both intake valves. There is nothing on the exhaust.

That's it. No VTEC kick, no extreme increase in power, not a ton of potential.

If you think that an F22B1 has VTEC kick, you have never ridden in a REAL VTEC engine.

With a couple hundred $$ of bolt ons, you can get yourself to a place that even a bolt on F22B1 probably can't touch. At least not easily.

You need to do a search for Bisimoto's posts.

He has a 9 second drag car running an F22A non VTEC, non turbo, non nitrous, engine that is putting out about 400HP at the crank. WITHOUT power adders. It is also extrememly reliable. It also races on 91 octane pump gas.

HondaFan81's Red Project (you can go look at his members ride thread) is putting out H22 power on a stock block F22A with a little bit of head work, and some bolt ons.

It also runs on 87 octane gas without any problems.

The F22A seriously has that much potential. Nobody wants to believe it, but it is true.

Go look at his full build "white project." They are expecting AT LEAST 250WHP out of it, on 91 octane.

I don't know if you have ever swapped an engine or not, but I can pretty much guarantee that the hassle and fighting you are going to go through are not going to be worth the 5HP you are going to get.

Especially not when you could have 10-15 more HP for a couple hundred bucks, and you could do it without have to rewire, rig or solve any problems. Everything you need can be had from junkyards for a couple hundred bucks. I know because I have done it.

I am not trying to be a jerk or a know-it-all.

I am simply trying to share my experience with you, because I think you might benefit from it.

There is a growing amount of information on the fact that the F22A is an EXTREMELY capable engine. Perhaps more capable than any other Honda engine with the exception of the K series. Maybe even more capable than that. Nobody knows yet.

I can say this though. You would be very hard pressed to get an H22 to put down 400HP naturally aspirated, and I would be willing to bet that it wouldn't do it on pump gas... I think someone would have done it by now.

Just my .02
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Old 01-17-2007, 04:03 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by owequitit
Everybody assumes that VTEC is god.
Heh, tell me about it. I wanted the b1 head to improve gas mileage, I drive my car for a living. If I want power, thats what my boosted da is for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by owequitit
If you think that an F22B1 has VTEC kick, you have never ridden in a REAL VTEC engine.
I've driven h22's and k20's, DOHC vtec is the only real vtec.

Quote:
Originally Posted by owequitit
I don't know if you have ever swapped an engine or not, but I can pretty much guarantee that the hassle and fighting you are going to go through are not going to be worth the 5HP you are going to get.

Especially not when you could have 10-15 more HP for a couple hundred bucks, and you could do it without have to rewire, rig or solve any problems. Everything you need can be had from junkyards for a couple hundred bucks. I know because I have done it.

I am not trying to be a jerk or a know-it-all.

I am simply trying to share my experience with you, because I think you might benefit from it.

There is a growing amount of information on the fact that the F22A is an EXTREMELY capable engine. Perhaps more capable than any other Honda engine with the exception of the K series. Maybe even more capable than that. Nobody knows yet.

I can say this though. You would be very hard pressed to get an H22 to put down 400HP naturally aspirated, and I would be willing to bet that it wouldn't do it on pump gas... I think someone would have done it by now.

Just my .02
I've done builds and swaps before. I simply want to see if swapping on the f22b1 head will give me 5-10mpg more, then the head swap will worth it to me.
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Old 01-17-2007, 04:20 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos325
Heh, tell me about it. I wanted the b1 head to improve gas mileage, I drive my car for a living. If I want power, thats what my boosted da is for.



I've driven h22's and k20's, DOHC vtec is the only real vtec.


I've done builds and swaps before. I simply want to see if swapping on the f22b1 head will give me 5-10mpg more, then the head swap will worth it to me.
Most likely with the F22B1 head, your mileage will stay the same or maybe increase 1 or 2 MPG.

With an H series plenum on an A6 manifold, and an A6 Cam with a DC sports header, catback and highflow cat, I was averaging about 28MPG city and 36 MPG highway. With an auto.

Again, IMO you would be better served with bolt ons. I haven't seen anybody with an F22B1 beat my mileage yet. That doesn't mean that it can't happen, but I don't know anyone who has, and I have had a few friends with them.

Besides, the CD5 is only about 100lbs more than the CB7, so if it isn't getting superb mileage in that, it won't get much better in a CB.
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Old 01-17-2007, 04:38 PM   #53
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looks like you should have just kept the f22a man.now youve got a bunch of problems you didnt have before.maybe gen4acclude can help you figure it out now.i would have done like owequitit said.with my 93 ex coupe with the stock f22a6 and fully loaded yes i dont strip my cars.a/c pstg,abs,you name it and a full stereo system on shitty 17 inch tires with the only mods being a cat back exhaust a short ram intake and a 35 shot dry system i ran a 15.2 now if you build up the f22a a lil more with a delta regrind and do the h23 h22 intake swap and add a 50 shot wet system you'll be in the 14's easily we are doing a similar build soon and will keep you informed on how much it puts down and what it runs.
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Old 01-17-2007, 11:13 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by owequitit
Most likely with the F22B1 head, your mileage will stay the same or maybe increase 1 or 2 MPG.

With an H series plenum on an A6 manifold, and an A6 Cam with a DC sports header, catback and highflow cat, I was averaging about 28MPG city and 36 MPG highway. With an auto.

Again, IMO you would be better served with bolt ons. I haven't seen anybody with an F22B1 beat my mileage yet. That doesn't mean that it can't happen, but I don't know anyone who has, and I have had a few friends with them.

Besides, the CD5 is only about 100lbs more than the CB7, so if it isn't getting superb mileage in that, it won't get much better in a CB.
Cool, I'll ditch the b1 head idea and stick with my h23 intake manifold. I guess rig up a switch to activate the itbs at given rpm. I already have a short ram intake and 2.25" downpipe back with no cat & stock muffler. I have a set of a4 headers and a nice low rice canon. Auto here with sports mode.
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