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Old 01-30-2008, 07:14 PM   #1
Stanleybb50
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Rod Knock / Timing belt tensioner??? Knocks at around 2000 RPMS (HELP PLEASE!)

I posted this as a response on a subaru forum when i found an article that sounded like my issue....

please let me know what you think!!!

DID ANYONE EVER HEAR THE RESULT OF THIS????

I have the exact same sounding issue on my 2001 Honda accord 4 cyl. It quiet until its warmed up, then I have a knock from like 1700-2200 rpms (but only under light acceleration -- more or less maintaining speed when driving).

its been driving me CRAZY as i just bought this car 2 months ago and first heard it on the way home from the dealer (when it was fully warmed up).

It sounds like this guys timing belt did in fact get ripped probably by the tensioner? Does anyone know if my Honda could have the same demise? I was going to change the belt as soon as i got it, but i wasnt sure if this noise is a rod / bearing / wrist pin or something... one mechanics theory was a wrist pin and my other mechanic said he thought the tensioner and honda said its "normal for the miles" (95k mikes) which is crap cause it cant be normal as it is a decently loud knock under a light load when warmed up.... I can get it to do it when in neutral if i rev it a little around that rpm range...

the one mechanic thought it was coming from the T-belt side as he used a long screwdriver to listen.. said he didnt think its from the lower end... but this sure sounds like a deep knock / rattle around those rpms only and there is some vibration in the motor also possibly (more than when cold at least)

It doesnt seem like spark knock at all....

ANy theories? Could this be the same issue? I dont wanna put all the money into the car to have my mechanic rip it apart and change the timing belt and tensioner only to find out that it still makes the noise when all is said and done... but i definitely dont wanna blow the motor over a snapped timing belt if it is the same issue!!!!
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Old 01-30-2008, 07:27 PM   #2
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I'll honest to god send like a friggin gift card to advance or something to somebody who can give me the correct answer!!! I have been stressing over this for faaaaar to long and ive had enough! If i get this fixed, I'll be the happiest man on earth and feel like i have a brand new car.. know what i mean?
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Old 01-30-2008, 07:56 PM   #3
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just curious, but what oil filter brand are you using?

if it's Fram, i've heard that it can cause "annoying noises" similiar to a knocking..
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Old 01-30-2008, 08:45 PM   #4
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Check your sparkplugs. Make sure they're properly installed. A plug that has been pushed up in the socket can cause a knocking sound under load, and it's most noticeable as you have described it.

Your other ideas are worth looking into, but this is just another possibility. If you're wondering about the timing belt and tensioner, get them replaced... it's about time anyway, if you haven't yet. If that IS the problem, it has to be done before it causes any additional problems. If it's not the problem, it's not going to hurt the belt to be on there for a short time. You're going to have to either repair or replace the engine if it turns out to be internal anyway... regardless, you'll need a new timing belt.
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Old 01-30-2008, 08:50 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deevergote
Check your sparkplugs. Make sure they're properly installed. A plug that has been pushed up in the socket can cause a knocking sound under load, and it's most noticeable as you have described it.
sounds like you have experience deev
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Old 01-30-2008, 09:08 PM   #6
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Never really thought of the plugs.. and i never looked at the timing belt situation that way - but most of the cost of the belt is not the belt -- its the labor that i didnt wanna pay for if the engine craps out.... and as far as oil filter... i'd guess its pennzoil? not 100% sure though without crawling back under there...

any other suggestions?
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Old 01-30-2008, 09:14 PM   #7
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Could you better describe the noise please?

Did you change the oil when you got the car?
If not, I suggest changing the oil and cut the oil filter open and check for metal debris.

Since its the 4 cylinder, you could take off the top timing belt tensioner and check the condition of the belt and possibly belt tension.
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Old 01-30-2008, 09:25 PM   #8
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generally rod knock happens all the time if its bad not at one set rpm range.
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Old 01-30-2008, 09:30 PM   #9
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Well you could pull the plug from each cylinder to see if it the noise goes away, Takes the load off the cylinder and then you can tell if it is coming from the top end or bottom end, If it goes away it could be a rod knock, if it gets louder it could be pistion slap Pistion to wall clearence wrong, or like someone mentioned it could be spark knock, due to excessive carbon build up or wrong ing timing, wrong heat range plug, it is harder to try to tell you what to check for each thing i mentioned has a different type of noise and depending on what the noise sounds like dertemines what it could be
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Old 01-30-2008, 09:31 PM   #10
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Knock gets louder as you go up in the rpm range. And it speeds up. We had the same issue in my friends stang because of loss of oil pressure. Hope its spark knock if it is thats an easy fix. Spark knock deev described it in short.
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Old 01-30-2008, 09:34 PM   #11
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not pull the plug out but kill the spark to that cylinder
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Old 01-30-2008, 09:44 PM   #12
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is the knock at half engine speed or at engine speed
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Old 01-30-2008, 10:19 PM   #13
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its reallly hard to tell if its at engine speed or not...

like i said it happens only at 1700-2200 rpms (roundabout) --- if i am pulling out normally or going up a hill there is no noise -- only when im like for instance maintaining a constant speed in like first or second gear up a very small incline if that makes sense - the only reason i think it doesnt do it in the other gears is just too much load for it to happen...?

i mean it really is like non- existant if i hit the gas a little harder when its making the noise.. does that make sense?

but the noise in general... id have to say more like a hammer tapping/hitting a 2x4 kinda? its definitely not random -- always does it under those circumstances and always when the car is completely warmed up -- it can be quite loud if i get the situation jsut right...

like i said, i can also get it to make the noise in neutral if i keep tapping the gas pedal (keeping it all around that 1700-2200 rpms...

I'll try the cutting out the spark to some plugs tomorrow (if its not too cold) and if i have time!

i dont think i can take the whole timing cover off myself... soudns too involved even though im not too bad with cars at all...

i did change the oil when i got the car even though the oil was spotless when i got it and filled properly...

no "idiot light" indicating low oil at least -- not even when at a low idle -- or like if i try to almost make it stall with the 5 speed...

didnt check the old oil filter for flakes (in the garbage now) --- i heard the noise immidiately with the oil that came in the car which was probably what the oil cap calls for (5w20 in these things) -- which is why i changed it and threw in 5w-30 and it didnt seem to quiet the noise even in the slightest -- the noise didnt seem to change....?

like i said though -- its jsut so wierd.. if im stanidng there revving it via the throttle under the hood - it almost sounds like its physically coming from the valve train and possibly closer to the timign belt side -- but thats too hard to say for sure (so dont assume thats where its coming from by any means what-so-ever) thats just what the one mechanic thought... he did get out the long screwdriver to the ear -- said it really didnt sound any louder though when he put it to the cover itself... but he still thought maybe the tensioner and swears he doesnt think its the bottom end... but i dont know...

hope this isnt like "too much information" that people just see all the words and say "F-IT - THATS TOO MUCH TO READ" haha -- cause i know i might thnk to do that -- or if nothing else jsut "skim"

but hopefully one of you is on to something!! i'm absolutely dead ass serious that im gonna send a gift card or something if we get this solved!! Cause ill feel like i have a brand new car!
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Old 01-30-2008, 10:30 PM   #14
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Is it really loud?? I worked on a Civic yesterday that had a valve train knock when you raced the motor a little bit but it wasnt at idle and it would get out of it in higher rpms, Most of the time when you put a load on the motor the knock will become louder or more apperant
Do you have a manuel or a auto? if it is neutral in a manuel and still does it you could rule out a main bearing issue but.....when you say it starts making the nooise when it gets to operateing temp is odd most of the time a knock would become quieter when the motor waarms up beacuse the bearing and everything is starting to expand have you tried to nthrottle the motor by habd when the car is cold to see if it does it?? and the knock is faint to where it cant be heard in the cabin when it is cold??
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Old 01-30-2008, 10:39 PM   #15
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yeah theres no knock when cold and you're right that it is the opposite of what you would expect with rod knock -- i mean of course there is a little piston slap when cold... but thats a different noise -- and as far as the lifters and springs and the general "honda slap" -- that is just fine and normal -- but this is a different deeper noise than that...

its a manual shift and like i said i can kinda get it to do it if i rev it just right and kinda tap on the gas at that rpm range... that make sense?

but when im driving its pretty loud under the perfect circumstances when in gear with the light load on it and hot....

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Old 01-30-2008, 10:40 PM   #16
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Valve train is more of a tapping sound rarely a knocking sound from my experience. Hondas have this regardless. If its an on and off I would check the plugs for spark knock. If its constant and consistent that would be a confirmed rod knock and you will be able to find out by pulling the oil pan and checking for metal bits. But check your plugs. You sure your bushings and all are good. You sure its not a clicking since you say it happens when you turn. You sure it aint the axle? I would give that a look see.
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Old 01-30-2008, 10:43 PM   #17
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try changing the viscocity of oil to a lighter weight,and run some engine flush through it. it could be a number of things, but start with the easier thins first, and least expensive. if you are running to thick of oil your valves are'nt clearenced enough to get oil to the top. try checkin the oil press when u hear the knock. if theres any syn oil mixed w/ conv oil sometimes it foams up too. that to me explains the low rpm range. cause if ur rpms go up ur oil pump works harder pushin hardr thus makin the oil reah its proper destination if that makes sense
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Old 01-30-2008, 10:50 PM   #18
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no no no - no noises when turning (not cv joint for sure) -- only when like driving on a small grade hill maintaining speed if that makes sense... and you're right about hte valve train noise -- guess i gotta pull some plugs? well first just the wires to short the plugs out and run --- = then pull the plugs to look at them...

and the noise isnt there at like say 1400 rpms - and its also quiet above 2200 rpms.. and i dont think theres any foaming of the oil that ive noticed -- and i dont have a pressure guage for the oil..

thats an interesting theory that the plugs could be all fouled up or something or the gap has changed and has carbon all over it or something... im sure they're the original plugs since honda doesnt even recommend changing til like 110k or some crap like that. hell, they're prally never even been pulled outa there -- i gotta get a real long ratchet to get them out im pretty sure or i would have done it earlier...
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Old 01-30-2008, 10:57 PM   #19
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i wasnt sure if i mentioned that the car and engine have 96k miles.. no mods -- all stock.
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Old 01-30-2008, 10:58 PM   #20
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A small extension with a 5/8 spark plug socket works wonders.
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