Is Vtec really overrated??

[azian21485]

imo vtec is overrated

most ignorant honda people think it's the best thing in the world..and that honda is a bunch of geniouses (yeah i know all about the nsx being first production car blah blah blah)

vtec = overrated
variable valve lift = not ovverated

having a second set of lobes isn't for good idle..it's to keep a good low end as well as having a good high end...without variable lift, you'll just have great top end with shitty low end or vice versa

variable valve lift + displacement = ferrari, bmw, aston marton, and others

variable valve lift + no displacement = japanese cars haha

[koolkoreanked]

^^^^^ ROLMFAO!!!!!! Well just about everything I was going to say has been said already.

[Chan_Man]

ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL That is by far the best way too show it.

[Kanibus]

[owequitit]

The Valvetronic thing is a little weird, but I don't know that the valve springs are really all that stiff. It has a traditional rocker arm and valve springs, there is just an intermediate arm that acts between the cam and the regular rocker arm. There is a gear that pushes/pulls it closer to, or farther away from the cam lobe, essentially varying valve lift. The new I6 in the 3/5 series redlines at 7,000 which isn't as good as the Pattakon system redline, but is still inline with conventional valvetrains.

[TÜNE.FREE]

put it this way, u have 10 to 1 compression on a motor, u can only run a cam that is so hot so that the car can run then still produce power, like if the car cant run worth shit under 5k then it is useless cause ur not ganna wanna be above 5k all day.. well on a Vtec engine and u have high compression and wants huge ass cams then u can use a really hot cam and make it even hotter after Vtec and that is where the power will be made, but then think again, the harder Vtec hits makes more wear on the valvetrain, so i dont know, u decide...

[deevergote]

Saying Vtec is over rated, is like saying EFI is over rated and CArbs are better.

there is no win win situation here guys, its just non vtec people ragging on Vtec.

Yes you can make tons of power with out vtec, yes you can make tons of power with vtec.

Short and simple... and quite right

It's different technology. If you know how to use it to your advantage, it's good. Many people prefer EFI over carbs, but Bisi ran 9s with a carb'd F22. "Better" is only based on perception and ability.

[phatdoughnut]

Saying Vtec is over rated, is like saying EFI is over rated and CArbs are better.

there is no win win situation here guys, its just non vtec people ragging on Vtec.

Yes you can make tons of power with out vtec, yes you can make tons of power with vtec.

[gloryaccordy]

Yeah I saw Valvetronic...I still can't figure out how it works though. Plus, it can't rev too high because of the high spring rates involved. That Pattakon system will raise a car's revvability significantly; I forget why but it does...they have a vid of a car w/the system being revved 3K over it's old redline, no problem.

[owequitit]

218 WHP out of a bone stock N/A 2.0 liter with an 8,000rpm factory redline (preproduction '06 SI tested by Temple of VTEC). That is what VTEC is all about. In all out racing, it isn't necessarily less useful unless the car is at WOT all the time like drag racing. In road racing (it was originally developed for Formula 1) it can be a huge advantage, especially when you have to spin a 3 liter V10 to 17 grand and have enough bottom end to get out of a "slow" corner.

VTEC isn't the end all to performance, it simply allows a smaller, more efficient engine to make power numbers larger than it should, and still be drivable.

Plus, you have to admit that it is fun to get in a car that pulls harder and harder all the way to redline, with no drivability side effects. And they just sound really really pissed off.

As a note about continuously variable valve lift. BMW already has it in production with Valvetronic. It basically has a very complex rocker arm mechanism that changes the rocker ratio per the ECU's commands. It may not be "infinitely" variable, but then an engine would not run under the majority of infinite conditions anyway, and it allows enough adjustability for them to not have to put a throttle plate on cars equipped with it. The valve lift varies from 0 (engine off) to a certain amount which in turn acts as a throttle, negating the need for the throttle plate, and reducing pumping losses in the process.

[93accordexcoupe]

ive felt my car run with out vtec.. and its shitty..

i think we all have

[gloryaccordy]

I agree with basically everything everyone said in this thread. VTEC is indeed a pretty novel idea, allowing Honda to keep something as crazy as the S2000 ULEV or whatever it is. However, odds are if you really care about all-out all-motor performance you'd be willing to put up with the shittiest of idles. I'd get a Delta 282 cam if I could afford one right now, no problem. As long as I have my torque from 2k on, I'm good.

I've been closely watching valvetrain developments, and we've definitely come a long way; however I think the last hurdle is completely variable valve lift. Interestingly enough, some dude in Greece came up with a system that has infinitely variable valve lift called variable valve actuation. His site is www.pattakon.com, and it takes a while to understand...but basically the system uses roller rockers and changing pivots to go from zero lift to stock lift. When this system is put on the intake cams, it replaces the throttle as it controls the air coming in...

The only 'downside' about it is that on stock cams you probably won't make any more peak power than you do, unless somehow it can add lift to a stock cam (but that's impossible, as lift is defined from the base circle to the peak of the lobe...it's the same distance). HOWEVER, because you have complete control on the lift, you can run an insane intake cam and a pretty wild exhaust one, and it'll still be street legal and all because at part throttle you'll have very little valve lift...

So yeah I think VTEC is a little overrated in that it's very on-off; but at the same time, it's good because you can have crazy 300-degree high cams and cops/racers/emissions people would be none the wiser. But as an engineer I know that having variability is better than on-off, no matter what...why do you think Honda has VVT in i-VTEC?

[Chan_Man]

I'm loving the feedbacks. Keep them coming.

[WiKKeDV16]

ur a sick little man

[deevergote]

@ the shameless plug

I agree that a LOT of people who praise VTEC don't know the mechanics of it... THAT is why it's overrated. I take it for what it is, and it's a very useful design. I like VTEC because of the simplicity. The more advanced versions in the newer Hondas, Toyotas (they're late, but stepping it up), and Mitsubishis (MIVEC has been around almost as long as VTEC) are a little more complex. However, the simple lobe-changing VTEC makes slipping in a new set of cams a simple upgrade. There are basically 3 options for cams on an H22: large lobe only race cams, which kill low end considerably; cams with two modified lobes, making more power overall with a slight loss in low end; and the cams the good Dr above mentioned, those that have stock-ish small lobes, and wild VTEC lobes... those are good, but you lose some midrange in the crossover (got that from Crower).

If VTEC a replacement for turbo? No. Does it make an engine a monster? No. Does it give more options, in some cases... if you choose to use it.


If I ever boost an H22, I want to tune it so the turbo hits maximum boost at the same time VTEC hits... just for S&G