North American Union? Is this all for real?

[owequitit]

My only issue there is that "they" wasn't Iraq. In fact, I don't believe any of "them" came from Iraq. We didn't attack the other countries that provided the terrorist bodies. Iraq was an easy, acceptable target. Iraq was an opportunity to gain a military foothold in the Middle East... which perhaps we DO need to hunt the terrorists.

My only issue is that "they" doesn't fit into a nice little box, or country as in years past. They are EVERYWHERE, and there is an Al Qaida presence in Iraq. Also, if you want to know more about WMD, and just how honest the media is not being, hit up 203cree.

It sucks, but waging a war on terror is like battling a bear... with your hands tied... with a wooden spoon. They can blow up anything and anyone they want. They know where we are, because well... army guys... they're gonna be looking for army guys! (Family Guy reference... gotta inject some humor!) On the other hand, they can be anyone... man, woman, child...

You are absolutely right. The course of inaction that we pursued under Clinton was FAR more effective, which is why the threat grew, and the attacks escalated. Look at the timeline that has already been posted in this thread. If you go and research the ones AFTER 1991, you will see the escalation I am referring to.

Hell, you might not be able to succeed, so why bother to even try? Very foward thinking. Success is just bound to find those people.

Do we have an option? I suppose we don't. As you said, inaction did nothing. Our mere existence is enough for them to hate us, so we can't really fix that. If we don't hunt them actively, even if it is futile, they're going to continue to come here.

And basically, you hit the nail on the head. The best thing we can do is hunt them. They have to physically exist somewhere too. It might change and not be an easy target, but it is there. Besides, the more we keep them on the defensive, the more they can't be on the offensive. Notice that even though everyone seems to disagree with 100% of the actions we have taken, the effectivness to wage war on the US by Al Qaida has pretty much ceased to exist since 2001. Not only have we stopped more intended direct attacks, but the small ones like the Embassy bombings etc. Now, about the best they can do are small scale suicide attacks on US soldiers. At least soldiers KNOW what their mission is, and know why they are there, and are equipped to fight back. Your mom in a shopping mall is not. Your friend in the WTC was not. Also, based on most reports I have received from guys coming back, it IS more stable than it has been, even though the media doesn't want you to think that. Anyone who thought progress would be instantaneous was stupid to begin with. But the other option of NOT staying the course, is far worse, I can assure you. It isn't like they are going to suddenly stop fighting one day. Doing nothing only allows them to grow and become stronger. Then we have a REAL problem. Not only that, but inaction only reinforces that we will do nothing in retaliation. If we retaliate hard enough, they might have a bruised ego, and we might have some casualties, but hopefully, they will think twice before each and every attack. You can not expect behavior B when you reward behavior A. One is totally ineffective, and one is at least partly effective.

Still, this isn't a war with another country. This isn't a war with borders. The war itself is almost a precursor to the "Global Government". The war we're fighting knows no borders... so why should the governing body know any? In almost all futuristic movies, games, etc... people are fighting terrorist organizations, because there are no warlike countries left to pick on. Sometimes fiction is a good indicator of the future!

This is a somewhat idealistic view of the problem. Even terrorists have to exist somewhere. And yes, to SOME degree it is a war with borders. There are those who aid and harbor, and those who do not. Afghanistan being a good example. The easiest and most effective way to eliminate Al Qaida's ability to survive, thrive and funtion in a place such as Afghanistan is to remove their safe haven and shelter. We have done that. As of right now, they are less effective then they were. That is war. Same goes for the group in Iraq. Overall, they have lost effectiveness, despite their attempts to gain momentum by "surging."

To some extent you are correct though. There aren't any 100% definite borders on this one. It isn't like WWII in the sense that we KNOW it is Germany and ONLY Germany that must be dealt with. That is why it doesn't make sense to me when people start finger picking acceptable countries for engagement. Like when they say "oh, we have no reason to be in Iraq, because the terrorists are in Afghanistan." It doesn't work that way, as an example. We did make a strategic error with Iraq, but we are unrealistic in thinking that Afghanistan is the end of the line as well. We may never see 100% success, but hell, it is hard to argue that 90% is better than 0%.

Overall, educate yourself. Properly. Internet videos may or may not (usually not) have a significant factual basis. They're interesting, sure. That's the point. They're intended to grab you and make you tell the world their message.

X2. We have to keep a close eye on the media these days, and there is NO regulation for college students on the internet. Everything you see on the net isn't necessarily bad, but it does require verification, research and opposing viewpoints to be considered. If you haven't done this, then you are not as informed as you think.

Also, when it comes to "fact" in such a thing... sure...

Hell, I can give you "facts" that support every ethnic stereotype in the world. Does that make it true? Is the fact that every "black" neighborhood in a 30 mile radius has a successful KFC, Church's Chicken, AND Popeyes in a fairly central location? Or that they all seem to have at least one outdoor BBQ restaurant (a guy, a trailer, and a grill... with a sign). Does that go with the stereotype that black people like BBQ and fried chicken? Sure it does. Do these places exist? Sure. Lawnside, NJ and Paulsboro, NJ... just as I say. Does that mean that the stereotypes are true? Does this mean that every black person likes that stuff, and that every neighborhood that is primarily populated by black people will have successful fried chicken and BBQ spots? I mean, it's fact, right? The information I gave about those areas was FACT.
What does it prove? Nothing, really. Those areas have a successful Taco Bell, McDonalds, and plenty of other restaurants as well... Also, every time I go into one of the chicken places, there are more white people in line than black people. But I don't need to tell you those facts... because they don't support my argument!

This is a perfect example of what the biased media in general does(on both sides), as well as my all time favorite group of people, the conspiracy theorists.

If it is an honest mistake or ommission, that is one thing. Nobody will ever get 100% of the facts right. If it is blatant, intentional, or otherwise deceitful, then it is nothing more than propaganda. I feel sorry for those who believe it blindly. The Pentagon theory comes to mind.

[zack_odom]

It sucks, but waging a war on terror is like battling a bear... with your hands tied... with a wooden spoon. They can blow up anything and anyone they want. They know where we are, because well... army guys... they're gonna be looking for army guys! (Family Guy reference... gotta inject some humor!) On the other hand, they can be anyone... man, woman, child...

Do we have an option? I suppose we don't. As you said, inaction did nothing. Our mere existence is enough for them to hate us, so we can't really fix that. If we don't hunt them actively, even if it is futile, they're going to continue to come here.

Hell, I can give you "facts" that support every ethnic stereotype in the world. Does that make it true? Is the fact that every "black" neighborhood in a 30 mile radius has a successful KFC, Church's Chicken, AND Popeyes in a fairly central location? Or that they all seem to have at least one outdoor BBQ restaurant (a guy, a trailer, and a grill... with a sign). Does that go with the stereotype that black people like BBQ and fried chicken? Sure it does. Do these places exist? p

Okay hold on one second now; That is EXACTLY how you are supposed to feel about the "war on terror" dont you see, there is no Terrorism from some outside source. It only comes from within our own borders! People seem to have bought into the propaganda from FOX "News". there is no WAR.
It is a way for the Bush's and there cohorts to make OBSCENE amounts of money.
WATCH THE MOVIE. DO THE RESEARCH. It is all easily available public information. I am not pushing this movie because it is a simple point of view,
or some propaganda. IT IS FACT. Impossible to disprove, Easily provable.
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/
Watch. Remember that Truth is not Learned. It is Realized.
You will realize whats true when you have an RFID chip in your ID card.
You will also realize that this country is headed towards one thing and one thing only, Fascism.
And actually dude, About the black thing: I'm black, so I think those things are FACT. Sorry to say man yes Black people like fried chicken/BBQ/Cheap Malt Liquor. I just want to say with a statement like that you should be able to see the truth about the illegal "war(s)" that the USA has waged against developing nations in the past. But I digress: I dont like Fried chicken.
I am not all black though. My mother is white. My Father however, LOVES the stuff.. .hmmm...Ahh the reason why black people like BBQ is because when they were still slaves, the Ribs/Brisket (Which are the main forms of BBQ cuts)
Were thrown out by the white slave owners. and not wanting their "investments" to die of undernourishment, they gave the tough bony cuts to them. the slaves struggled to eat the pieces when cooked conventionally, so they developed a way to cook them for a long time at low heat to make them edible. Fried chicken i dont quite understand and I have no story for it lol.
Also Everyone that reads this needs to realize something as well, IF YOU LIKE HAVING AN OPINION, then you need to see through the lies. I dont know how else to say it. Global government is BAD, there is no way that could be good for anyone, Give me one reason it would be good, and I will give you two why it's bad. But the Main reason is that you once again, are going to be putting the power to RUN THE ENTIRE FUCKING WORLD to one person, or one group of people. ARE U SERIOUS???? U can support such a thing??? You would trust rich people who dont give a fucking shit about YOU to run the WORLD?
Okay fine. You have fun getting your RFID implant.

[owequitit]

Okay hold on one second now; That is EXACTLY how you are supposed to feel about the "war on terror" dont you see, there is no Terrorism from some outside source. It only comes from within our own borders! People seem to have bought into the propaganda from FOX "News". there is no WAR.
It is a way for the Bush's and there cohorts to make OBSCENE amounts of money.
WATCH THE MOVIE. DO THE RESEARCH. It is all easily available public information. I am not pushing this movie because it is a simple point of view,
or some propaganda. IT IS FACT. Impossible to disprove, Easily provable.
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/
Watch. Remember that Truth is not Learned. It is Realized.
You will realize whats true when you have an RFID chip in your ID card.
You will also realize that this country is headed towards one thing and one thing only, Fascism.
And actually dude, About the black thing: I'm black, so I think those things are FACT. Sorry to say man yes Black people like fried chicken/BBQ/Cheap Malt Liquor. I just want to say with a statement like that you should be able to see the truth about the illegal "war(s)" that the USA has waged against developing nations in the past. But I digress: I dont like Fried chicken.
I am not all black though. My mother is white. My Father however, LOVES the stuff.. .hmmm...Ahh the reason why black people like BBQ is because when they were still slaves, the Ribs/Brisket (Which are the main forms of BBQ cuts)
Were thrown out by the white slave owners. and not wanting their "investments" to die of undernourishment, they gave the tough bony cuts to them. the slaves struggled to eat the pieces when cooked conventionally, so they developed a way to cook them for a long time at low heat to make them edible. Fried chicken i dont quite understand and I have no story for it lol.
Also Everyone that reads this needs to realize something as well, IF YOU LIKE HAVING AN OPINION, then you need to see through the lies. I dont know how else to say it. Global government is BAD, there is no way that could be good for anyone, Give me one reason it would be good, and I will give you two why it's bad. But the Main reason is that you once again, are going to be putting the power to RUN THE ENTIRE FUCKING WORLD to one person, or one group of people. ARE U SERIOUS???? U can support such a thing??? You would trust rich people who dont give a fucking shit about YOU to run the WORLD?
Okay fine. You have fun getting your RFID implant.

And this is why the country is going down the shitter.

Ok, here is a challenge for you.

Obviously, I am ignorant. So why don't you enligthen me by proving all of these facts that are covered in this video.

I am going to need to see dates, sources, and entire versions/copies etc, because I am really dumb, and need lots of hitting on the brain to be woken up.

[lokuputha]

This is a great thread.

... and take an isolationist stance.

Isolationism is not as favorable as non-interventionism. IMO, a country may isolate itself from the rest of the world via interventionism. Video

BTW, I cannot say Canada is a good guy; its one of the most cunning powers in the world.

I'll respond to the above later...gotta Formula SAE car to build

[owequitit]

This is a great thread.



Isolationism is not as favorable as non-interventionism. IMO, a country may isolate itself from the rest of the world via interventionism. Video

BTW, I cannot say Canada is a good guy; its one of the most cunning powers in the world.

I'll respond to the above later...gotta Formula SAE car to build

We can't be non-interventionists. If we do that we are the bad guy. Look at what happened with the Tsunami vs Hurrican Katrina.

[Fake Thug]

I think some of you guys are a little naive when it comes to this stuff. You dont ever put anything past the U.S. gorvernments. One WWII gorvernment actually used Nukes on city populations(people), unjustisfiably even to this day. Different U.S. gorvernments/administrations that have ruthelessly overthrown third world gorvernments(even democracies) and purposely cemented civil wars. Their every move has to be scrutinized, questioned, JUSTIFIED.

Take Liberia for example. One minute the U.S. is behind/praising Samuel Doe. They screw him over, he exposes them to the media. The next minute they pull Rebel leader Charles Taylor out of a U.S. Federal prison, send him back to Liberia with CIA backing and training to overthrow Doe. He accomplishes that. Even cuts Doe's ears off on national televevision, but thats not the point. The point is 2 decades of brutal civil war, child soldiers eating human hearts, limbs severed. Supposedly Taylor managed to escape a federal maxium security prison. As a matter of fact, I think it was Levenworth.

The north american union when you think about american history makes sense. I dont agree with it at all, but it is what it is. The fact is, one of the reasons the U.S. is the richest country in history is because its original infastructure was built for free. This a fact of american life. America is like Galactus. Its appetite for cheap(or free) labor is unsatible. Without it, it will not be able to compete or survive.

Under extreme conditions, its makes sense for one man to make the decision to go to war. the legislative gorvernment is a joke, giantic beaucracy. They would have to take a couple of recesses b4 they ever came to a decision. A man makes the decision with over sight from a small legilative body.

[lokuputha]

We can't be non-interventionists. If we do that we are the bad guy. Look at what happened with the Tsunami vs Hurrican Katrina.

Can you describe " what happened with Tsunami vs Katrina." I don't see what you mean yet; afterwards I'll reply.

[ACC0RD22]

I think some of you guys are a little naive when it comes to this stuff. You dont ever put anything past the U.S. gorvernments. One WWII gorvernment actually used Nukes on city populations(people), unjustisfiably even to this day. Different U.S. gorvernments/administrations that have ruthelessly overthrown third world gorvernments(even democracies) and purposely cemented civil wars. Their every move has to be scrutinized, questioned, JUSTIFIED.

Im sorry, but what? We had two options in defeating Japan (who, if you remember, attacked our largest military base in the Pacific when we were not at war with anyone.)

Option 1 was this: Send a ground assault up the island, and take it by force.
Projected US casualties: 1 million +

Option 2 was this: Drop two nuclear bombs on two smaller cities to encourage them into a peace treaty.
Projected US casualties: 0.

Yeah, I think it was justified.

[N9netwoAccord]

Stressed much lately?

I've noticed an increase of swear words in your posts lately.

I'm worried.

lmao glad i wasn't the only one who noticed

[zack_odom]

To Owe:
Dude, I though there would be some kind of response like that from you.
Bro I am not going to argue semantics with you. I will stick to what i said.
Truth is Realized not learned. So me posting the facts will do NOTHING for you.
you will not gain anything from it. I am also quite surprised that you quoted my entire post yet only responded to a very small portion of it......I never said you were ignorant either, I am not posting here to insult anyone or anyone's intelligence....I have nowhere else that is an outlet like this so I want to keep this thread alive lol.
Yeah okay so I dont personally have these Facts/Dates/ blah blah...
If you really want me to google everything to prove it to you I will.
BUT I feel as though that will do nothing for you. I also feel as stated before,
that for you to recieve truth you must Realize it. Not be taught/told it.
And I dont know what you mean about the Katrina /Tsunami thing,
or the world going down the shitter.....Hmmm...*Furrows Brow*
I look forward to reading your response...

[sackingz123]

Im sorry, but what? We had two options in defeating Japan (who, if you remember, attacked our largest military base in the Pacific when we were not at war with anyone.)

Option 1 was this: Send a ground assault up the island, and take it by force.
Projected US casualties: 1 million +

Option 2 was this: Drop two nuclear bombs on two smaller cities to encourage them into a peace treaty.
Projected US casualties: 0.

Yeah, I think it was justified.

and kill 200k human beings.

[zack_odom]

Accord22//

Option 1 was this: Send a ground assault up the island, and take it by force.
Projected US casualties: 1 million +

Option 2 was this: Drop two nuclear bombs on two smaller cities to encourage them into a peace treaty.
Projected US casualties: 0.

Yeah, I think it was justified.

so you think that the MASS MURDER of innocent civilians was Justified?

Interesting. then you must also think that the Armenian Genocide, the holocaust and Iran/Iraq incidents are okay too?
also Hiroshima is NOT a small city. Not to mention the fact that Roosevelt provoked the attacks against Pearl Harbor by claiming neutrality in the war then cutting off all trade with japan....then ignoring Australian intelligence reports that stated there was a Japanese task force headed for the US.....
But what does that matter right? It was only like hella long ago, and nothing similar has happened recently where our "leader" has ignored repeated warnings that something was going to happen then did less then nothing about it....Nope. nothing like that has happened in a long time.

[C91BLX7]

and kill 200k human beings.

It was either them or us. Who would you choose?

[sackingz123]

It was either them or us. Who would you choose?

human life.

[owequitit]

To Owe:
Dude, I though there would be some kind of response like that from you.
Bro I am not going to argue semantics with you. I will stick to what i said.
Truth is Realized not learned. So me posting the facts will do NOTHING for you.
you will not gain anything from it. I am also quite surprised that you quoted my entire post yet only responded to a very small portion of it......I never said you were ignorant either, I am not posting here to insult anyone or anyone's intelligence....I have nowhere else that is an outlet like this so I want to keep this thread alive lol.
Yeah okay so I dont personally have these Facts/Dates/ blah blah...
If you really want me to google everything to prove it to you I will.
BUT I feel as though that will do nothing for you. I also feel as stated before,
that for you to recieve truth you must Realize it. Not be taught/told it.
And I dont know what you mean about the Katrina /Tsunami thing,
or the world going down the shitter.....Hmmm...*Furrows Brow*
I look forward to reading your response...

You missed my sarcasm.