New Clutch not Disengaging. Took back Apart. Nothing looks Wrong??

[boulky12]

The last few times I've been doing the tests, when I try to get in gear and put car on the ground, I've been doing it without the oil in the trans. So that I don't have to keep taking it in and out. I'm sure the gears have a little oil on them still so wasn't worried about that. But that wouldn't be why I'm not able to get in gear with the car on the ground or would it? I don't think so but just making sure

[boulky12]

Okay thanks man. I will try with them.

I tried looking these up and found nothing

[Grumpys93]

According to exedy website that is the correct pressure plate:
https://shop.exedyusa.com/exedy-raci...i-2292483.aspx
I’m honestly a little lost. Only thing you haven’t swapped back to stock was the trans and the CMC. You aren’t leaking any fluid correct? Not having oil in the trans shouldn’t be an issue since you can never get it all out. I’ve already asked about the axles.

Do you have the SS line running straight from the CMC to the slave. Or did you feed it on the fitting on the trans that runs a hard line to the slave?

[Raf99]

Ya, i'm not sure what to say here too, except I think this picture sums up the problem.







I am also assuming nothing stupid is being done here accidentally:
- flywheel on backwards
- crack in shift fork that gives play when being pushed
- the ball behind the shift fork is worn down 1/8" (<----- is this the problem? No, it's not adjustable)
- clutch push rod / master cylinder is adjusted properly (not being adjusted properly can mimic this issue)

Although your release bearing looks correct, if you were sent the wrong release bearing that would cause all of this too. As the guy on that page i listed noted, he had different sizes. One from Exedy specifically made up to 1/2" thicker for their unit, which would make perfect sense in your situation.
Maybe see if Exedy will look at this page :P

[boulky12]

Thanks for finding that Nick. Yeahh thinking I may still try swapping the cmc. Not leaking any fluid no.

Yes the SS line is running straight from the cmc to the slave. I deleted the hard line/ clutch damper deal.

Raf, yes I'm sure I've been putting the flywheel and clutch correctly. Pretty sure shift fork is not cracked as I compared the 2 I have. But I will be double checking when I bring the trans down again. Will inspect the pivot ball. And yes I've always been adjusting the pedal so that it feels right.

Yeah hoping to get the trans back down today. If the release bearings are not the same width I'll def be reaching out to them.

Thanks yall

[boulky12]

So the release bearings appear to be little different style but contact points measure pretty much the same. Still have the box for the new one. Part # appears to be correct. I noticed when I slid the release bearings down all the way on the input shaft housing, the new one goes in a little further, bout 1/8 in. Not sure if that's a valid test..

The pivot balls are different. The one from the T2T4 is bigger and about 1/8 in longer. The forks are the same other than the one from the T2T4 has a little bit bigger dimple for the bigger pivot ball.

What do yall think? I'm thinking I should try running the smaller pivot ball and fork that goes with it. Might make the difference. I would like to run my old release bearing too but dosent seem like a good brand and don't want it squealing later.

[cp[mike]]

maybe try using the old Fork (with the small dimple) on the new Ball (with the taller height). It might give you a bit of leverage advantage

[Raf99]

Nice Pics! Ya, so you're looking to move the release bearing closer to the pressure plate forks/teeth. I see nothing here that will give you the 1/8" you need though. I'd say use the H22 ball with H22 fork as it fits proper fit for the trans.

I took apart another spare H22 pressure plate I had to measure for you. So that's 3 pressure plates with the 1 1/2" mark and the one giving you issues sitting lower by 1/8". If the rest of the parts (release bearing, slave cylinder) are all the same measurements then pressure plate (or using the wrong release bearing) is the issue. Need to get that 1/8" somewhere.




In your above pics the measurement of you on the release bearing with the red ring. The red ring doesn't touch the pressure plate teeth/forks, it goes inside.
With the pressure plate on the engine and a flat edge across it, these teeth will still sit 1/8" lower (or more?). The bearing is static size, the slave cylinder in a static spot, the play in the slave cylinder the same as all others (and you tried two & we measured).

Were you using the F22 shift fork and ball the whole time? (I don't think so) I think you've tied all combos now except master cylinder.
The head scratcher here though is you mentioned in the beginning post that your fork only moved half of a friends. " Another thing we noticed is my fork moves 1 inch, while dreamability71's fork
moves 2 inches, when fully engaged." But you and I measured that the slave moves the full distance (not under load). So...... is there a chance that your slave is failing when under pressure and not moving it to the 3" mark (or the full length) ? I think you said you tried both though.

The other idea here is that the pressure plate is broke? The diaphragm spring could be broke inside, etc. in a spot you cannot see. Or some piece of metal is "giving" / allowing 1/8" of play that won't allow the clutch to release but can only been seen under pressure. I wish i was there to help man, this one may turn out to be the simplest thing that solves it

& if the flywheel is too thin then it would cause this whole affect too. But.. can't see that. Excedy has a whole troubleshooting guide too and mention things like this:
https://www.exedyusa.com/wp-content/...-Guide-web.pdf

[boulky12]

Thanks guys. Okay I will use the bigger pivot ball and fork that goes with it. And if you look at the pics, my new stage 1 pressure plate is at 1.5 in, and my stock one right under 1.75 in. I thought swapping the stock one was gonna make a difference but it didn't.

I've been using the T2T4 bigger pivot ball with matching fork the whole time.

I dont think its a bad slave cuz I have 2. Tried both. 1 of them I know for sure works good. No change.

Yes could be possible pressure plate is broke inside, somewhere I can't see. Although I inspected the retractor clips inside and they appear to be contacting the diaphragm like normal.

And my bad on the flywheel. I inspected them closer. And although the flywheel is 12mm thinner, the teeth, and contact point for the clutch is the same. So its fine

Well I guess since everything checks out, I'm gonna put it all in again and hope it's the master

[Raf99]

Any updates on this ?

[underPSI]

I'm following as well. Same engine, same transmission, same clutch and similar (although not as bad) symptoms.

[boulky12]

Any updates on this ?

Not much. Put it all back. Thought I had my old Cmc but guess I threw it away, so got one coming. Threw away the reservoir with it, so gonna have to hit up the yard for one of those.

Gonna try this, although I really don't think its the issue. Fork seems to be moving plenty, so dosent seem like hydraulics, but I don't understand why its not actually disengaging! Everything inside seems fine, tried swapping flywheels, swapping pressure plates, with/without pilot bushings.. its like it all gets locked up when I put the PP on or when I bolt the engine/trans together..

Yesterday, when I put it back together again, I tried of course seeing if I could get lucky. Still wouldn't go in gear, on ground, of course. But this time when I was testing up in the air I noticed, I didn't even need to use the clutch to get in gear and spin the wheels. The second I start putting it in gear, no clutch pedal, wheels start spinning, and goes right into gear. I'm pretty sure I wasn't able to do this before. So is it staying engaged now??

[boulky12]

I'm following as well. Same engine, same transmission, same clutch and similar (although not as bad) symptoms.

Interesting..

[Raf99]

Yaa ok.

So you're just rev matching the gears but in the air. (Explained: when your clutch stops working when driving, technically if you sit at the proper RPM you can pop it in to gear without using the clutch. Big rigs do this etc etc etc; you may already know this stuff).
Your clutch is not working. And looking at the marks on the pressure plate, it doesn't even look like the release bearing is touching / engaging. Got a micro camera that can look in the trans while you push the pedal? (in at the shift fork)

But ya, could also be hydraulic pressure, but doubt you can mess that up. Easy to bleed and no points of failure really. From this point on, put all the original stuff back on. I'm 100% positive it's the Excedy pressure plate measurement is the issue but not sure why the OEM one did not work. And then there's the clutch adjustment rod under the dash. An improper adjusted pedal or push rod length will also cause this issue. It will bolt up and it will push fluid, but you're not getting the full plunger length engagement.

Is OEM stuff F22 or H22 ? (do you have a H22 OEM clutch & pressure plate?)

[boulky12]

Raf,

Thanks for the explanation. Looking at the pics you can see the bearing has been touching. And does feel it is engaging. The pedal feels like a normal clutch pedal. I do not have a micro camera but thanks for the idea. I might buy one. Would be nice to see what's going in in there.

Yes, I feel like if the culprit was the exedy pressure plate, swapping my stock one should've fixed it, but no change. And yes I have tried adjusting the clutch master rod under the dash. I also have pics from Grumpys93 of where his pedal and rod is. (He's also running the s2k cmc) Mine is pretty much the same as his and feels good where it is.

The stock stuff is F22. And it is not even OEM, it is cheap LUK brand. I do not have any H22 clutch or pressure plate. These trans actually come come on F20B but either way, it should be all interchangeable from what I've read.