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Radiator fan not working

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    Radiator fan not working

    Prepare for the wall of text, I know its long, I'm sorry. I'm also not the best at explaining things, I can rephrase something if you need me to.
    I've been searching for a while with no luck. I got one of those free pdf service manuals, and I've been following instructions from that as well as cb7tuner, but now I'm just kind of confused as to what to do. Although, I think I've got it mostly squared down to it being a wiring issue. I paperclipped the switch on the thermostat housing, ig2 and the condenser fan only comes on. Swapped the radiator fan relay with the power window relay, didnt fix it. The relay wasnt even clicking, so, thats neat. From about this point, I followed the manual, and used a wired to jump the pins under the relay (2 & 4) radiator fan works, so all wiring from the fuse box to the fan, including the ground works, so thats good. However, when testing pins 1+ & 3- for battery voltage, it showed -0.21v on the multimeter. The manual says to repair the "Blu" wire, but isn't it the yellow that provides voltage? idrk how relays or any of this works. I saw some other singular page looking forum that said he repaired the blu wire, and had a pdf attached, showing the fusebox wires, c254 is supposedly the one I'm supposed to be looking at? I took the underhood fuse box out to inspect the wires underneath cuz it looked rather easy. They all looked fine close up, one had electrical tape wrapped around it loosely though it didnt look like it needed it. but, it wasnt the one in question, at least according to that one little pdf. All the insides of the connectors have disgusting gooey corrosion, making me wonder if I should just replace the wireharness, I've never had much luck cleaning that shit out. Besides, is the wire even my problem or is the fan timer unit? I have a 91 coupe ex manual. Also not sure if I'm looking at the proper wiring diagram, can I get help with all of this please.
    From the manual:
    Click image for larger version

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    #2
    Soo can you check voltage of Fuse15 on UHF (under hood fuse box)? And Fuse #25. Also is your temp gauge working as well as the temp sensor (I think there's two sensors, one for the gauge and one for the ECU / fan).

    Attached Files

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Raf99 View Post
      Soo can you check voltage of Fuse15 on UHF (under hood fuse box)? And Fuse #25. Also is your temp gauge working as well as the temp sensor (I think there's two sensors, one for the gauge and one for the ECU / fan).

      I didn't check the voltages, but they're both fully intact. Does the specific voltage matter? Also, I forgot to mention I had checked No. 8 (radfanrelay), and No. 2 (ECU) on the driverside kickpanel(?) as I heard those also may cause problems, but no luck. I had an issue with my ECT sensor, I accidentally broke the wire on the connector, it was extremely fragile, and half the ect connector got stuck inside the sensor, (CEL #6 on now) so I went to a junkyard and got the stuff off a known working car. (The owner sold it to the junkyard after they busted an oil pan and oil started leaking from the dizzy). I twisted the wires real good together, havent soldered it yet, but no more CEL. Fan working condition never changed during this, the fan stopped working before the ect sensor ever had any problems, and it doesnt atm, car starts perfectly, and runs great other than prematurely fouling plugs, which is a different topic all together. Last but not least, the gauge sending unit wire pops off sometimes because it kinda broke? i dont really know how or when this happened, its just like this now, and it looks like it also needs a new connector. I first noticed that whenever I hit the gas for a 50% throttle pull and the gauge just turned off. ECT Switch A and ECT Switch B on the diagram both are nonfunctional atm, but in all tests I have it jumped to rule it out.

      Comment


        #4
        Ya, it matters because I thought you said the fan relay was not getting power / ie; power is not getting to the fuse box / relay & everything past that point is working. I would also recommend you try a whole new UH fusebox at this point too.
        So is power getting to the relay or fuse #15 or #25?

        These should have power with key on and then it's the Rad fan control module that switches the fan on through the relay.
        If those fuses have power, and the motor works when given power, then the only thing left here is the control module which is not doing it's job.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Raf99 View Post
          Ya, it matters because I thought you said the fan relay was not getting power / ie; power is not getting to the fuse box / relay & everything past that point is working. I would also recommend you try a whole new UH fusebox at this point too.
          So is power getting to the relay or fuse #15 or #25?

          These should have power with key on and then it's the Rad fan control module that switches the fan on through the relay.
          If those fuses have power, and the motor works when given power, then the only thing left here is the control module which is not doing it's job.
          Sorry, I'm still really new to working on cars. I mainly did pcrepair.. I purchased this car back in november 2021, and thats when I first started.

          I tried to test continuity of the wire between the UH fusebox and fan timer, but it showed 0L. I then tried to test all pins of the relay to all the pins on the back of the fusebox, pins 1, 2, and 4 were all good, showing 0.02 or less on the minimum ohm reading. Pin 3, 0L to all pins. I reinstalled the UH fusebox for testing, Pin 1 and 2 both get 12v. Pin 4 has 12v to ground post on battery, Pin 3 has 0.06v? quite odd. Tested voltage of Fuse #15, 12.33v, Checked Fuse #25 again, and somehow, between the posting of this thread and now, the fuse popped? The fusebox was out the whole time, idk how taking it out and putting it back in would pop that fuse, or if it did right before? but either way I replaced it, new one has 12.33v on both terminals, and still same result of no fan running with the relay in and everything. I'm assuming it has to be something to do with the fusebox and pin #3 doing something weird. I wanted to know if you could confirm this or not? Also, should I post a new thread or continue this one with other problems with the same car?

          Pinout:
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          Comment


            #6
            So OL just means that you were using too low of an ohm setting on the meter. Ie: it may have showed a resistance value if you set it to a higher settings. Not going to talk about the blown fuse, could of been anything there, but it it keeps blowing then you may have found your problem (ie: that power wire is touching ground somehow or frayed). The pin #3 i'm guessing is the wire to the motor. So question, does your fan motor turn freely? Can you turn it by hand easily?

            And I'll have more time to dig into my wiring schematics on this coming weekend, but does your condenser fan work? And also have you checked fuse #7 (7.5) by the pedals?

            ps - keep posting in this thread for this issue. Start a new thread for other issues.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Raf99 View Post
              So OL just means that you were using too low of an ohm setting on the meter. Ie: it may have showed a resistance value if you set it to a higher settings. Not going to talk about the blown fuse, could of been anything there, but it it keeps blowing then you may have found your problem (ie: that power wire is touching ground somehow or frayed). The pin #3 i'm guessing is the wire to the motor. So question, does your fan motor turn freely? Can you turn it by hand easily?

              And I'll have more time to dig into my wiring schematics on this coming weekend, but does your condenser fan work? And also have you checked fuse #7 (7.5) by the pedals?

              ps - keep posting in this thread for this issue. Start a new thread for other issues.
              I tested all ohm ratings, including a diode test just to make sure, and nothing comes through on any of the pins. I even got a new fuse box from the junkyard, and it has the same result, so either it is also broke or neither of them are.

              Pin #1 is fan timer unit 12v in, im pretty sure pin #2 comes from the rad fan fuse, pin #3 is assumed to be the blue wire (no continunity)
              pin #4 is assumed to be the radiator fan motor.
              using a short wire, shorting pin #2 and #4, radiator fan comes on.
              i testes the continuity from pin #3 to the blu wire on the sensor, nothing. Then, using a long wire, i connected the blu wire on the thermosensor to pin#3, forced the relay into the socket, still nothing. ?? For the fun of it, i tried shorting pin #1 and pin #4, got sparks, but no fan turnage. Those arent supposed to connect anyway so ig thats fine, just thought it was interesting it didnt want the 12v. Does that mean the fan is pin #2? Either way, pin #3 aint doing and idk why.

              Slightly off topic, i think my car model is KA? I keep seeing KA, KS, KQ, KY, in the manual and i didnt know what mine is, fuse box says KA..

              The fuse is not continunually blowing, it was a one-time thing. All fuses in the car are good. Condenser fan works perfectly. The radiator fan itself is confirmed good and working. All parts im taking from the junkyard were off a previously fully-functioning car.

              Im guessing my blu wire has a break in it, but idk what to test next or how to fix, including that my simple jank fix didnt work.

              Comment


                #8
                So you just answered your question here.

                - If you jump ping 2 & 4 the fan turns on. (Your energizing the relay and causing the fan to come on. I think you're are the ground at that point)
                - For the circuit to energize without your intervention it needs the ground on the other end of the relay (the blue wire)
                - You could jump coolant ground wire to ground and see if it comes on. That would help eliminate the coolant temp switch.

                So either your temp sensor is broke (wires, connector), or your ground is bad after that temp sensor. If you can use wire to connect the multmeter ends on each end of the blue wire for ohms (resistance) you could test it from the fuse to the coolant sensor end.
                And remember your coolant temp sw is a heat activated unit. If faulty it will never complete the circuit to turn things on.

                & sorry, I think I posted a prelude one and our is more simple. Same principal. I would say your grounds are bad or temp sensor.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Raf99 View Post
                  So you just answered your question here.

                  - If you jump ping 2 & 4 the fan turns on. (Your energizing the relay and causing the fan to come on. I think you're are the ground at that point)
                  - For the circuit to energize without your intervention it needs the ground on the other end of the relay (the blue wire)
                  - You could jump coolant ground wire to ground and see if it comes on. That would help eliminate the coolant temp switch.

                  So either your temp sensor is broke (wires, connector), or your ground is bad after that temp sensor. If you can use wire to connect the multmeter ends on each end of the blue wire for ohms (resistance) you could test it from the fuse to the coolant sensor end.
                  And remember your coolant temp sw is a heat activated unit. If faulty it will never complete the circuit to turn things on.

                  & sorry, I think I posted a prelude one and our is more simple. Same principal. I would say your grounds are bad or temp sensor.



                  Can't figure out how to upload a big image to the forums, even though I click on fullsize its always 50% or less, so I had to upload them on Imgur. https://imgur.com/a/KHTlBRP
                  I made sure this is the proper wiring diagram for my exact car model based off checking connectors and other things. I'm not sure what exactly is broke here due the conditions it works under and the conditions it doesnt.. While testing yesterday, I did an oops. a pretty big oops. I was going to bridge pin 3 to G101 with a wire, and I accidentally touched the wire to the positive battery terminal for the fusebox... Yeah.. Idek how I did that. it made sparks and a little tiny flame. none of the cables appeared to get hot or anything, but it did weld a piece of one of the wires from the cable to the screw. I did take it off as soon as I realized what was happening, but yeah. I heard the relay click and activate, and the fan tried to do something? After like 10s and now having my heart kinda racing from being scared of what I just did to my car I took the relay out, inspected for damage, everything seemed fine, I put it back in, tried it, heard the relay click, fan tried to spin for half a second then immediately cut off. The relay now takes longer to disengage, so it definitely took a hit. Took relay out again, tested pin 2&4, no fan. Great. something is dead fs now. Tested Pin 1, 12v. so my cooling fan timer didnt die, thats good. Pin 2 is still showing 12v, which means I didnt bust a fuse or anything either. The positive on positive connection lasted for less than a second i'm pretty sure, but I'm scared to even connect my negative battery terminal now ... I'm hoping its just the fan that I killed, because although its a new fan, I have my old one as a backup which should be working, evidently. lol. I'm not even sure what to do anymore, besides maybe taking it to a dealership, but my broke ass cant afford that and I needed this car to run so that I could get a job, so yeah.. thats where I'm at now. x: Thanks for your help btw.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Soo have you tried a different / new relay yet? That sounds like your problem right now. Either the fan motor is dying out when it get's power, or the relay is flicking off after giving the motor power for 0.5seconds.
                    (don't worry about your "oops", that's what fuses are for)

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Raf99 View Post
                      Soo have you tried a different / new relay yet? That sounds like your problem right now. Either the fan motor is dying out when it get's power, or the relay is flicking off after giving the motor power for 0.5seconds.
                      (don't worry about your "oops", that's what fuses are for)
                      I tested everything in the circuit again, the blu wire to the fusebox after the y split from the thermosensor/restoftheblucircuit,tofantimer is bad. no continuity, but continuity between everything else. continuity from negative fusebox terminal to fantimer has high resistance, but does exist. Continuity from fan to body ground is good, continuity from pin #4 (fan power) is bad. Tested the new fan, I assumed I had broken directly to the battery, it's still good.

                      With two wires in my car knowingly being bad, and one them carrying 12v30a (according to the fuse) unless I can get a really good engine bay diagram for this wiring, or blueprint, yk something 3d so I can really visualize, and some detailed instructions, I'm probably going to look for another wiring harness and just replace it all together. I'm not sure where to get one, other than a junkyard, of which there are plenty around me. The question mainly now is, what kind of wiring harness would I need? (1991 Coupe Manual EX) Can I use any 90-91 EX wiring harness? Does it matter if its a coupe or sedan, or if its a manual? Does it need to be a 91 specifically too? (I really wonder what I'm in for if I have to do the entire harness)

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Hey man, Just wanted to say good work on going down this route figuring it all out. I am having different fan issues but will definitely be using a lot of this diagnostic info to get to the bottom of my issue.

                        A random thought I had from all of my cooling system issues on my 93 coupe, can you use a jumper wire in the cooling fan switch connector force the fans on? That can act as a temporary way of keeping the car running until you solve the real issue.

                        In regards to replacing the harness - I would first look at pig tails you can buy online to repair the damaged wires for that connector.

                        My 93 had a distributor leaking oil on to that nest of harness located under it that has all the wiring for the 4 different sensors related to the cooling system right there, the hot oil constantly falling onto the wiring damaged the insulation so I repaired them all using these pigtails. I used a single ground wire pigtail for the temp gauge sensor. Do this job right with butt splices/heat shrink or quick disconnect terminals and you'll properly repair that part of the harness.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by bmeltp90d View Post
                          Hey man, Just wanted to say good work on going down this route figuring it all out. I am having different fan issues but will definitely be using a lot of this diagnostic info to get to the bottom of my issue.

                          A random thought I had from all of my cooling system issues on my 93 coupe, can you use a jumper wire in the cooling fan switch connector force the fans on? That can act as a temporary way of keeping the car running until you solve the real issue.

                          In regards to replacing the harness - I would first look at pig tails you can buy online to repair the damaged wires for that connector. For Honda Integra Civic IAT Fan Knock Sensor Connector Plug Pigtail Coolant Temp | eBay

                          My 93 had a distributor leaking oil on to that nest of harness located under it that has all the wiring for the 4 different sensors related to the cooling system right there, the hot oil constantly falling onto the wiring damaged the insulation so I repaired them all using these pigtails. I used a single ground wire pigtail for the temp gauge sensor. Do this job right with butt splices/heat shrink or quick disconnect terminals and you'll properly repair that part of the harness.
                          Thanks for the comment. Ive been checking back here daily hoping someone would have some advice before I had time to do the repair. I have kept the paperclip in the connector so that I can check for continuity and all that, just to simplify the circuit and remote the sensor from the equation. I think I will actually end up repairing the harness instead of replacing it. Looking in the car, and at some wiring harnesses that have been deloomed, I think I know which general area to go looking for burnt pieces of wire, although I'm still not sure on whether or not I should solder or twist the wire and crimp it. I reckon for the sensor, I could use 16-18ga and be fine once I find the correct place to splice in. But the main question is what should I use for the radiator fan? I cant find oem fan wattage, amperage, or anything. Im really not sure which wire to use, 14ga, 12ga, or 10ga. The original fuse thats supposed to be there is 12v30a but even the 10ga (stranded, full copper) wire i have barely handles that at the distance it needs. It says 30amp max on the back lol. The 12ga i have says 22amp and the 14ga says 19amp. The wire in the car that goes to the fan looks absurdly thin, like 14ga, maybe? Or 12ga thin insulation? Idrk. I need help with this part, fire scary, although thinking about it, the wires burnt up alr and didnt start a fire lol.. If you have any pictures or video that would help, I would very much appreciate it. I will post again after repair and ill try to take pictures and video during incase anyone else has this issue.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Ya so I think you said you have no continuity between the fan wire (down by the fan connector) 7 the relay end (fuse box). So at this point you are either tracing the whole wire and looking for damage or running a new wire. 14AWG should do, but go larger wire if you don't have the proper size (never smaller). Most of these issues exist at the connector themselves or with bad grounds.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Raf99 View Post
                              Ya so I think you said you have no continuity between the fan wire (down by the fan connector) 7 the relay end (fuse box). So at this point you are either tracing the whole wire and looking for damage or running a new wire. 14AWG should do, but go larger wire if you don't have the proper size (never smaller). Most of these issues exist at the connector themselves or with bad grounds.
                              I have 14awg, but at the distance, its slightly below the 20amp fuse rating, so I stepped it up to 12 for headroom.

                              I havent attempted repair yet because I stumbled upon something really confusing and I'm lost and hestitant to do any work before I get confirmations.

                              Do note, I was wrong about no. 25 fuse size. It is 20a, not 30a.

                              So what I know thus far, at least assumed.
                              Pin 1 is yellow, sometimes yel/blk wire cooling fan timer input 12v
                              Pin 2 is a white, main +12v power input for radiator fan
                              Pin 3 is a blu sensor wire.
                              Pin 4 is the radiator fan wire, going directly to the fan. (iirc, I made sure this was the case before my wire blew)
                              There is a 40 pin? Idk has lotsa pins, round connector, the right side that you can pull out, has continuity, although pretty high ohms. It showed i think 2.52 on the 20k setting as opposed to most connections being 0.00-0.10 on the 200ohm setting. But yeah, this be the blu wire. I already depinned it and snipped it, ready for a new wire but im stumped now lul.

                              And what I found out today when testing continuity and more fun stuff.

                              Pin 1 goes to the top right pin on the left side of the 10pin connector. Wire is green/red.

                              Pin 2 goes to the 8 pin connector. Under the single pin in the corner. The wire is blu/blk. The single pin above it looks to be white.

                              Pin 3 goes to the far left pin on the biggest connector, looks like two pins are almost separated from the rest. Wire that goes to it is yellow, the pin next to it is blu/blk.

                              Pin 4 goes to the 8 pin, connector. Under the single pin, right next to the pin 2 in the corner. The wire is missing entirely.

                              With no.25 fuse in the lower left corner and out of its socket, the right pin has continuity to pin 4, and the left pin has continuity to battery ground.

                              I tracked the radiator fan wire from connector to the fuse box. I know its entire path, both it and the blu wire. But theyre very deep in the loom, which is multilayered. Part of my loom near the airbox for the radiator fan wire was easy to access and 1 layer thick, it was already split open, the wire is definitely blu/blk to the fan.

                              Is the haynes manual wrong? Or is my understanding of these pins just wayyy off? Im really confused. My car wiring matches up best with the ky/kq model except near the fusebox, and the fuse is 20a not 15a. My fusebox says KA SM4-A1 (off a '90 accord, my original was KA SM4-A6, they both match up perfectly in results.

                              Comment

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