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Calling N/A f22 people looking into chipped ecus

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    Calling N/A f22 people looking into chipped ecus

    This thread is for the mostly stockish f22 guys looking for some performance gain from using a chipped ecu. I've gotten plenty of inquiries about getting the map, sending out an ecu with the map, how its going to run, why the map is taking so long and i wanted to clear alot of things up and concentrate you guys into one thread and tell you the absolute truth.

    First, I cannot modify the stock pt3 or pt6 ecu's you need a civic or integra ecu. The stock f22 has 8.8:1 compression. This is extremely low for an n/a car but honda made it that way so we could run 87 octane and get away with it without detonating. For this reason and mainly this reason the f22 can't gain much power at all through ecu tuning of any sort. I was able to gain about 5-6whp and 10-12wtq from around 2200-2800rpm but that was it. The rest of the powerband was the exact same as stock or 1 whp less and no amount of ignition timing i tried nor a/f changes made a difference.

    The motor just doesn't respond to ecu tuning because of the low compression. The compression practically nullifies any potential gains. So to the ppl with just intake, header, exhaust, pullies, spark upgrades, basically stockish, an ecu is practically worthless for power IMO. And frankly you guys are too bandwagon right now. Theres only one stockish f22 person i know of thats wants an ecu from me but is willing to learn to tune it themselves. The rest of the guys expect perfection from the ecu and will be sorely disappointed otherwise. I can't guarantee it will run flawlessly, i haven't even seen most of your cars let alone know how to tune the engine around your environment. Everything from your driving habits to your elevation come into play when i send these ecu's out. So this is why i'm so hesitant to send these things out to most of you. Because i know for a fact that the majority don't care to know about the ecu at all or tuning.

    However, if you plan to raise the compression, change the peak torque from a cam or cam gear, get a good port and polish, or want to go for forced induction and need to add bigger injectors at the same time then the ecu is very beneficial. It gives you adjustability that can't happpen with the stock ecu. You can make the tune as safe or as dangerous as you want to.

    Now for a little trip into tuning land. At peak torque, usually at about 3800-4000rpm on the f22's, is where u need the most fuel. You can change that peak torque by simply adding a camshaft. The cam shifts the powerband (namely the torque line) and moves it into the higher rpms normally. If peak torque is now at, say 4900rpm then the stock ecu will still be dumping its highest amount of fuel at the 4000rpm range and you'd be running lean at 4900rpm where you actually needed the fuel. Since the stock ecu isn't adjustable this is where the craze over chipped ecu's came from.

    So as far as power goes on a stockish f22 there will be little to benefit. The programs for the ecu's however can extend the rev limiter to whereever you want it, remove the speed limiter, and they set you up for the future of your intended setup as it progresses.
    Suppose u have an f22, decide to get a chipped ecu anyways and come across a good deal on an h22. The chipped ecu can be modified to control the h22 and its vtec. It sets you up for your future setup as i was saying. It doesn't necessarily add power it controls it. But of course in some cases there will be a gain but it depends on the setup.

    The reason alot of the h22 ppl can get good gains and results is because of their higher compression. Honda also made the h22's p13 ecu conservative to prevent stupidity like filling up with 87 octane instead of the 92 or 93 it was intended to run on. They try to make these cars stupid proof ya know? And that leaves room for ppl to take advantage and get some good gains from an ecu.

    Also, the reason i haven't finished this map is because i don't have a stockish f22 anymore. I have to meet up with Grumpys93 when our schedules match up, so i'm not on my own time and theres not much i can do about that. I'd also like to say that with gas prices nowadays its almost essential to know how to tune the fuel curves if your gas mileage falls. I'd hate to send out an ecu and have everything working great except bad gas mileage and have that person not know how to tune it out.

    If you have any tuning questions there are two stickies i made at the top of this performance section that will tell you just about everything you need to know.

    chipped ecu thread ( yes its long)

    Tuning thread (yes thats long too)
    http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=11966
    If you take the time to read through u will be able to decide if these ecu's are for you or not. You should have some knowledge on how to tune and if you don't...read the stickies. If you have any questions after reading then by all means ask away. I only get tired of answering the same questions as i've answered 1000 times as would any one of you. It'd be like someone coming into this thread and asking " so is it worth it?" I'd go ape shit and i think i have the right to after typing all this lol.

    In conclusion, for stockish f22's your only benefits would be:
    - a little gain from 2200-2800rpm
    - removed speed limiter
    - full throttle launch if you want it
    - extended rev limiter if you want it (a blown motor is your fault not mine )
    - Plenty of adjustibility for future setups you might build or look into
    - If your willing to work with me i'll teach you everything you need to know.

    Disadvantages:
    - It may not run as perfect as u might think such as bad gas mileage as stated above
    - you will need a chip burner to be able to change anything on the map
    - you will need to have to have some insight on how to tune from reading up
    - possible loss of hp above 3000rpm by 1-2hp
    - if you aren't willing to take the time to learn i'm not willing to take the time to help you

    Thank you for reading, if you have any questions please ask but please try not to make me repeat myself too much.
    Last edited by MRX; 02-06-2006, 01:17 PM.
    Knowledge is power...in EVERY sense of the word

    FSAE (F Series Accord Enthusiasts) ..."A dying breed thats taking it to the next level" #12

    #2
    i cant tell if i just learned a lot or my eyes are just showing me different colors

    Comment


      #3
      All MRX stated is true. People, you need to stop buying the crap magazines put out there. A modded ecu can only help you find power that the stocker is holding back. If you are stock, the modded ecu will not do much. This is not like having a WRX, or an EVO for that matter where the stock ecus are designed to hold the car back. Like MRX stated before this engine comes with 8.8 compression. That is anemic in the performance world since its N/A. Unless you do some serious mods to your engine, a chipped ecu will not do anything for you.

      Comment


        #4
        me and a friend of mine are going to mill the a6 head .45 and port polish and some cam work.....
        now what are some of the compresion numbers that an engine should have in order to see some gains from the chipped ecm?
        are we there yet are we there yet are we there yet

        Comment


          #5
          now thats a good question. I'd have to say near or possibly above a 9.8:1 ratio should yeild favorable results. But that is my personal opinion. But most favorable results would probably be in the 10.5:1 and above range.
          Knowledge is power...in EVERY sense of the word

          FSAE (F Series Accord Enthusiasts) ..."A dying breed thats taking it to the next level" #12

          Comment


            #6
            am i the one that was willing to learn (i am EXcivic94 and DynamicTuned on AIM) i talked to u about turbo and i was saying that if i rebuilt the motor with pistons i would use ur program and wideband tune myself cause i have access to the stuff, remember me now, anyways, ya i know what u mean by stockish and that is why i listened to u over AIM and am now for sure going to use a cam and some head and IM work to get power.. so cool, i will learn and u can help, cool... anyways, what u said about seafoaming, ur soo right, i ran a bottle through and my compression numbers are all between 175-180 now, remember i was saying that one of the cylinders was at 203!! lol.. al fixed now, but ya, i gotta change my plugs,. cause when all the stuff broke up and came out of the exhaust it burned my plugs, like not bad, they aren`t purple,. they just have burned shit on em... later-

            GET A TUNING QUOTE FROM ME AZ PEOPLE

            "TÜNE.FREE Engine Management!"

            ...::SHAWNEE::...

            Comment


              #7
              ok, first i would like to know what seafoam is, and where i can get it, second, what is exactly needed to 'burn' chips?? laptop soldering gun or something. i am completely fascinated to learn how to tune and make adjustments through the ECU. I would like to be able to understand why any adjustment is made for what purpose etc. i think i realize that after some work like I/H/E or basic bolt ons, a cam or pistons or P/P are needed, then you can fully utilize these upgrades through the ECU if tuned properly. i am trying to understand this the best i can now, as i am still new to tuning and hondas somewhat, besides working on a few B18s in some teg's. Thanks for the info, it is greatly appreciated keep it up!!!

              Comment


                #8
                please see the links posted in my first post, your answers will be found in there.
                Knowledge is power...in EVERY sense of the word

                FSAE (F Series Accord Enthusiasts) ..."A dying breed thats taking it to the next level" #12

                Comment


                  #9
                  thank you for clearing that up, I learned alot.


                  "You've done more threatening prescription drugs..."
                  "the character of a man can be judged by how he takes his criticism"
                  "Quoting yourself is like, masturbation" -Starchland

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Nice write up, learned alot.
                    Originally posted by Makaveli2k
                    Just goes to show, leave the JDM poses to the Nimble, sleek, asians. =)

                    Comment


                      #11
                      lol i am living proof that the chipped ecu does not do to much when it comes to power but i like it from what i have been doing(aka mrxs genie) the chipped ecu has taken the rev limiter to a much higher point im not sure if its 6800 or 7k to scared to go that far lol, my gas mileage has either stayed the same or gone up a lil bit, i also have discovered that the rpms seem to drop a lil faster too. I cant say nething bout speed limiter but i can go past 110 and ive thats as far as i am takin it right now because i don't have suspension or z rated tires...If u want to see the dyno of me with my intake, exhaust and chipped ecu jus pm toine he has the copy it shows what i gained from it. With the problems for a chipped ecu the only ones i have come across are a slight stutter here and there, and my fav usually takes to twists of the key to crank the motor up but i have gotten use to it but the whole reason i took up the pleasure of bein toines genie was because one i am/was willin to learn bout it, still am mind u, 2 i am going boost soon, and 3 because i want to explain the horizons for other cbs...lol I like the chipped ecu even though i don't feel much of a gain i have gotten comfortable with uberdata and the whole ecu tuning....Man this is long lol thanx for readin my part of the f22 stockish if u have ne questions let me know and if u can't get a hold of toine let me know i see him at least 2-3 times a week
                      ~Nick~
                      FSAE (F Series Accord Enthusiasts) ..."A dying breed thats taking it to the next level" Lucky #13
                      MR Thread:http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthre...ight=Grumpys93

                      Comment


                        #12
                        so, is this really worth it?

                        lol. I was thinking, although I've been told it bad for me... If you were to tune a stock f22 on 93 octane, advance the hell out of ignition, you should see 2-5whp more over what your tuning.. Maybe I'm wrong because of the damn compression.
                        Shift_BOOST

                        BOOM!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          hmm the low end gains (around 2200 rpm) to me would be worth it to pick up around 7 whp.


                          "You've done more threatening prescription drugs..."
                          "the character of a man can be judged by how he takes his criticism"
                          "Quoting yourself is like, masturbation" -Starchland

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by 92ex
                            so, is this really worth it?

                            lol. I was thinking, although I've been told it bad for me... If you were to tune a stock f22 on 93 octane, advance the hell out of ignition, you should see 2-5whp more over what your tuning.. Maybe I'm wrong because of the damn compression.
                            i had the ignition as high as 38-39*...it ain't gonna make power lol
                            Knowledge is power...in EVERY sense of the word

                            FSAE (F Series Accord Enthusiasts) ..."A dying breed thats taking it to the next level" #12

                            Comment


                              #15
                              hey, we've been communicating via e-mail. patrick_kerce@columbia.sc. Hopefully we'll have motor with enough cam and compression to justify some ecu tuning. Don't give up on it yet guys. look for a budget n/a writeup before next summer.
                              H.S.A.E.

                              90 CRX Si - gutted, caged, Bisi F2d kit, close ratio LSD trans, F22A6 - under construction

                              99 civic LX - y8 head and trans, lowered, blowing cold AC, and getting 35mpg.

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