Plans to build a block?

[honda2014]

Hey everyone, I've got a few questions. First, though, let me tell you about my somewhat newly conjured up plan. In advance, sorry for the noobiness. Gotta start somewhere..

In the beginning, since I decided I wanted to modify my car, I realized that I would have to keep it low budget. Days turned into weeks turned into months. A few hundred dollars went to a few thousand. This is a medium term goal, but I would like to gather all the parts before summer. I have been looking to buy a h22 engine and tranny for a while, like, for 6 months. I have only $1100 left now, due to some college expenses I had a week ago. I will get off track and say I am a rising senior in highschool, I'm just taking college classes for credit this summer. I have a maximum of $1500 to spend on a full engine setup, without tuning and maintenance. All along, I have planned to either save for a motor from hmotorsonline or find one locally for a lot cheaper, and piece it together. Being that I live in a hearty area of ricing, if you find an h22, it is either blown up, torn apart, or needs work. I've gotten discouraged enough to entertain the idea of turbo. Now to move on...

TL;DR - I've wanted to swap an h22 with bolt ons and call it a day, but now I'm planning to do a DSM turbo setup.

My power goals for a turbo f22 are a minimum of ~250 hp, with, hopefully, at least 220. Cost effectiveness and reliability are high up there, and I know that those goals together don't make a lot of sense, but I think it's doable, from what all I've read.

My plan is to do DSM setup, with either a 14b or 16g, more leaning toward the 16g unless I get positive feedback on the 14b.

Here's the rest of my list:
ARP Head Studs
ACL Main Bearings
Manual boost controller, if wanted
P06 ecu
DSM Blue Top 450cc injectors
Oil catch can
DSM Manifold
eBay FMIC and 2.5 in piping
Oil line, ofc
and last but not least, which I still am not sure on: engine internals.

I've been looking at what oem parts breaks down at which hp levels with certain turbos and I realize I'll have to get forged pistons if I want to hit 250 whp safely.
One thing, before I assume that $1500 is reasonable to expect all that stuff to be, I think it is. I price checked all of that, plus $600 worth of stuff to be $1100. My big question is, is this idea silly, or do you think it's doable? It may not be finished by the end of summer, which isn't a requirement, I would just like to have all the parts to start piecing them together. Also, another important question, is there a piston that I can put on a stock rod and keep compression low? I noticed the 4g63 stroker's are common, but when paried with h22 rods, because the are .010 lower than stock length. with f22 rods, the block deck goes down .061 instead of .010. Combining these 4g63 stroker pistons to the f22 rods would make the deck height 8.602... I think that's too low.. Is there another piston that is commonly mated with stock rods that can meet my goals?

[Joey GT-R]

I'm not an expert on 4G63s so I'll leave someone like Gtseviper to chime in on that. Stock rods can be machined to accept different pistons, but it depends on how big the journal is, some are just too small, and others too large. I believe Jarrett has a better idea on the sizing and interchangeability.


Also I believe 250whp on stock rods is a stretch, I would have them shot peened to even get to the 220whp mark "safely", so factor that and journal re-sizing into your build, that's probably going to run $200-$300.

I know you feel comfortable with your budget but I disagree. $1500 for the block by itself minimum. You can cheap out with the DSM setup for only another $750.

[honda2014]

I'm not an expert on 4G63s so I'll leave someone like Gtseviper to chime in on that. Stock rods can be machined to accept different pistons, but it depends on how big the journal is, some are just too small, and others too large. I believe Jarrett has a better idea on the sizing and interchangeability.


Also I believe 250whp on stock rods is a stretch, I would have them shot peened to even get to the 220whp "safely", so factor that and journal re-sizing into your build, that's probably going to run $200-$300.

Do you think it would be worth it to go ahead and pay $100 for h22 rods, then? Also, Gtse viper has a set of 4g63 pistons for sell. This may be my day.
They are $200 less than original price, and he is selling a chipped p06. Thanks for the input joey, its always appreciated.

[Jarrett]

Those 85mm pistons that he has for sale are only decent options for you if your cylinders are within spec. That's the primary reason that setting low budgets for internal work on 20 year old economy engines is so volatile. To think that you could be delving into the internals of this engine, replacing parts and changing bearings and this thing never sees the inside of a machine shop is a little iffy in my opinion.

However, assuming your bores were good, those pistons paired with H22A rods (see H23CB7's for sale thread) would yield a better rod ratio. The wrist pin of the 4G63 is the same size as the F/H-series engines but it is a floating aftermarket piston. You're going to need a newer H22A4 rod bushed for floating pins, have older H22 rods rebushed for floating pins or just buy aftermarket rods.

If you're set on ACL bearings then I would measure all journals very carefully first to ensure that one of them hadn't been touched previously to avoid any unwanted problems later on.

Your pricing also doesn't include seals or gaskets. Those, along with new timing components, fuel and air filters, fluids and other miscellaneous items will instantly drive the cost of this project up. If I were you I would build it first and then install it naturally aspirated. Go ahead and include your tapped oil pan and new gaskets and timing components. Everything is external from there anyway. You won't have changed compression enough to require a retune. Then, once you've saved again, throw all the external stuff on and get it tuned. That would be my suggestion if you don't want to wait until you can afford to do it all at once.

[illinois_erik]

here dude someones done the hard work for ya
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2546957
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2546957



Ive had this on mind since Ill be pulling the A6/A1 bottom out of my se when I scrap it, build that up and hunt down a manual coupe to put it in some day. whats cool is he did his own block guard the way I mentioned in another post and mentioned a product name..so yeah there ya go, and looks like he did it for around your budget too

[honda2014]

Those 85mm pistons that he has for sale are only decent options for you if your cylinders are within spec. That's the primary reason that setting low budgets for internal work on 20 year old economy engines is so volatile. To think that you could be delving into the internals of this engine, replacing parts and changing bearings and this thing never sees the inside of a machine shop is a little iffy in my opinion.

However, assuming your bores were good, those pistons paired with H22A rods (see H23CB7's for sale thread) would yield a better rod ratio. The wrist pin of the 4G63 is the same size as the F/H-series engines but it is a floating aftermarket piston. You're going to need a newer H22A4 rod bushed for floating pins, have older H22 rods rebushed for floating pins or just buy aftermarket rods.

If you're set on ACL bearings then I would measure all journals very carefully first to ensure that one of them hadn't been touched previously to avoid any unwanted problems later on.

Your pricing also doesn't include seals or gaskets. Those, along with new timing components, fuel and air filters, fluids and other miscellaneous items will instantly drive the cost of this project up. If I were you I would build it first and then install it naturally aspirated. Go ahead and include your tapped oil pan and new gaskets and timing components. Everything is external from there anyway. You won't have changed compression enough to require a retune. Then, once you've saved again, throw all the external stuff on and get it tuned. That would be my suggestion if you don't want to wait until you can afford to do it all at once.

I was planning on just buying another block mated to a tranny, and building it from there. My accord is an automatic right now, and will be until I turbo. I may swap to 5 spd at the end of the summer, but I see no want to until I can actually make power. My engine has 301k miles too, so I figured It would be better to buy a lower mileage engine. That's about the only engine I can find that fits in a cb7.

Also, I had planned for all new fluids/gaskets/etc. I have a very new fuel filter, would I need to replace that with the swap? I'll probably be getting an upgraded fuel pump as well... Since the bigger injectors and all.

[toycar]

Thread I made that went into great lengths about the 14b


http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthre...&highlight=14b




I have been a DSM guy for a LONG time. No offense, but since you were in like 1st grade I have owned/raced DSM's.


14b is a great turbo. Much more power and you start running into other issues. 220whp -240whp is probably about it for the 14b.

Why not just buy rods/pistons meant for this engine? It will save you hassle down the road and the cost will be similar. You could just get the OEM rods modified to accept forged pistons and go that way. The OEM rods will be just fine for this kind of power levels. I think anyways. People boost the OEM motor all the time and blow it up-its never the rods that fail. Its always the pistons. I would get ARP connecting rod hardware too.



Any DSM manifold will work. I would run a 2g and port it and the 14b to 7cm and call it good. The 2g>1g manifold, and the evo 3 manifold is better yet. 2g manifold can be had for cheap though.

Manual boost controller can be made for $10.

Read up on clocking the 14b turbo so you can rotate the compressor outlet and have a cleaner install. It looks stupid pointing up with charge pipes running all over the place.

You'll be fine with 2.5" piping, run a 3" Down pipe though. The BOV appears to have escaped your list. Since the engine runs on MAP readings, just about any style valve will work.


I'd run an OEM intercooler(SRT4 or EVO) over some generic ebay shit. If you buy a quality intercooler, get a same side inlet/outlet for shorter charge pipe routing.








My thoughts on your build.

[honda2014]

Thread I made that went into great lengths about the 14b


http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthre...&highlight=14b




I have been a DSM guy for a LONG time. No offense, but since you were in like 1st grade I have owned/raced DSM's.


14b is a great turbo. Much more power and you start running into other issues. 220whp -240whp is probably about it for the 14b.

Why not just buy rods/pistons meant for this engine? It will save you hassle down the road and the cost will be similar. You could just get the OEM rods modified to accept forged pistons and go that way. The OEM rods will be just fine for this kind of power levels. I think anyways. People boost the OEM motor all the time and blow it up-its never the rods that fail. Its always the pistons. I would get ARP connecting rod hardware too.



Any DSM manifold will work. I would run a 2g and port it and the 14b to 7cm and call it good. The 2g>1g manifold, and the evo 3 manifold is better yet. 2g manifold can be had for cheap though.

Manual boost controller can be made for $10.

Read up on clocking the 14b turbo so you can rotate the compressor outlet and have a cleaner install. It looks stupid pointing up with charge pipes running all over the place.

You'll be fine with 2.5" piping, run a 3" Down pipe though. The BOV appears to have escaped your list. Since the engine runs on MAP readings, just about any style valve will work.


I'd run an OEM intercooler(SRT4 or EVO) over some generic ebay shit. If you buy a quality intercooler, get a same side inlet/outlet for shorter charge pipe routing.








My thoughts on your build.

Thanks for the great feedback. Lots of help..