jdm92_accorn finally building boost

[jdm92_accorn]

so i've looked into it and the 93 coupe just may be going boost. i have rods left over from my last build and a set of h23 headstuds i just bought brand new with acl rod and main bearings for $75. so a set of 9:1 pistons and an overbore coupled with a custom regrind and it'll be set. i may be able to boost it for around 4k and i'll just throw the t2w4 on betsy and the m2s4 in the 93 coupe with the 4.062 FD and a lsd. it already has coilovers and new bushings so who knows. the turbo i plan to use is the borg warner EFR 7076 .92 a/r with built in wastegate and recirculatory valve, you know this guy vvvvv


coupled with one of these little guys minus the wastegate flange


i think with a good set of 1000cc injectors, 3" exhaust, proper intercooler sizing and it should be fully capable of 400-500whp. the way i see it is if i can make 180whp on motor at 14.7psi atmospheric pressure it should produce 500whp at roughly 26-28psi with that turbocharger. dont get the wrong idea from this either. to all my n/a f-series followers betsy will stay on track for a 2.6L stroker street build. right now im having a hard time finding someone i trust to take a 100mm brian crower stroker crank and properly machine it down with an offset to fit f23 rod journal bearings. the expensive part will be the crank. i think about 5k and the bottom end will be good to go. but this year my budget is slightly limited so i figure why not finally toy with the 93. i haven't even made a MRT on it yet. it just kind of sits there and gets drove about once every two weeks. it does make me enjoy betsy more after i drive it. considering it is stock with ebay bolt-ons and the stock f22 trans. it is a massive difference. betsy can litterally walk off and leave it from a 60mph roll with betsy in 5th and the 93 in 3rd. proof is when i took it to get an alignment last week, i picked it up and my girl was driving betsy and i was in the 93, i dropped it down to third and rolled up on besty and she didnt even downshift and she just waalllkkked away. i was really surprised, betsy is so composed when it is accelerating that it doesnt feel that fast. you really can only judge it by the scenery or the speedo. if things go well over the next couple of years and i get both cars completed i will be testing n/a vs turbo to the fullest extent, lol.

[WiKKeDV16]

Why stay internally gated ?
A lot of drawback from that.

[jdm92_accorn]

not nearly as much as you would think with the design.

borg warner has shown alot of promise with this new design. besides, if i go turbo i want a simple and compact setup to make installation and removal painless. this allows me to disconnect four lines, one v-band, one charge pipe and the manifold will come off with the turbo. i may however change and swap out to an f23 bottom end. rods and pistons will be fairly cheap and the added displacement will mean more power with less psi and better spool time. i will probably test waters at 400whp with the f23 bottom end at 15psi. if all goes well i will be gutting the crap out of the 93, lol.

[toycar]

Yeah buddy, thats what Im talking about!!!


WOOT








So, I know Im always that guy thats like "you should do this instead of that" and its probably irritating. Just so its out there, feel free to tell me fuck off and no fucking way, lol






Welp, now that I got that out of the way.......



Im sure you plan on running an f22a cylinder head, so why not just run a dsm manifold? If you move some shit around, you can use OEM parts to get every bit of the power you are looking for on a budget.


Why not run a Holset turbo instead of a borg warner monster?


HX35 would be plenty of turbo for what you are after. .92 A/R is just way to big for an efficient f22. You'll have to spin that bitch to 10k to even get the turbo moving air, and you'll never efficiently power the turbo.


A variable geometry Holset turbo is your answer.


I pulled this from dsmtuners;


Summary provided by wiseman, Dsm-onster:
HX35:

The 8blade hx35 has a 56mm compressor inducer. This is found on 1995-1998 cummins manual pickups. The compressor flows 52 lb/min according to the compressor map. The bolton BEP housing (0.55 a/r) is enough to push the limit of the compressor. There's several 500whp 8blade hx35 cars out there with the bolt on housing. It reaches 20+psi by 3500rpms in 3rd with 272 cams. Smaller cams would equal a faster spool speed in most cases.

The 7blade hx35 has a 56mm compressor inducer. This is found on the 1999-2002 cummins manual pickups. The compressor flows 60lb/min according to the compressor map and logged results from a member here. The bolton BEP housing with the hx35 turbine wheel do not SEAM to have enough flow to really reach the potential of 60lb/min. But many have logged over 50lb/min so far and seen 500whp. The stock hx35 12cm^2 twinscroll turbine housing is a t3 flange housing. This mated to a NON-divided runner manifold has produced a 132mph trap speed with a full weight 1g AWD. This is about 600whp. So the flow is there with the stock housing if you use a non-divided manifold. The spool speed of the 7blade hx35 is similar to the 8blade hx35 with 20+ psi by 3500rpms in the bolton housing and by 4000rpms with the stock housing with a non-divided manifold.

I run a holset hx35 on my race dsm, and its worth it. Well worth it for the money.


OEM quality/reliability is a wonderful thing. You are gonna spend a couple thousand dollars on that borg warner turbo to buy it new, and atleast a grand to buy one in unknown condition. Or you could buy a holset hx35, a more appropriately sized turbo for your engines produced cfm, for about a third in new condition or as little as $200 in rebuildable condition. Ever built a turbo? Its really easy. If you can build an engine, you can build a turbo.


$80 for balance, and Whabammo. Tons of money saved. So much money saved, you can now buy forged rods/pistons and still spend less than that brand new borg warner jobby that will never reach its efficiency zone(from your engines potential cfm)


At the least, read up on Holset turbos and go from there;


http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turb...-part-6-a.html





You can always sand/polish the compressor housing and have the turbine housing jet hot coated or something to that affect to make it prettier. Holset turbos, dollar for dollar, are where its at if you are going big with power.


My thoughts anyways.



***Edit***


Have you ever turbocharged anything before? I didn't do the math for your hybrid f23 motor, but an OEM f22a6 only produces about 250cfm at like 6500 rpm. Consider your estimated cfm when looking at compressor maps and picking out a turbo for your ideal efficiency range.

To get the most out of your setup, you'll really want to make sure you can push the turbo into its peak efficiency range while operating at your desired engine speed. At 9k rpm's you are pushing around 340cfm on a 132 cubic inch motor assuming 100% V.E.-and thats only like 21-23lbs/min of flow. +/- depending on ambient temps and a few other variables.


Look where that gets you on the compressor map. In all honesty, I bet you'd be happiest with a hy35 or an hx30 turbo, but there are so many turbine housings, different blade designs on the wheels and compressor housings available that are interchangeable, that you could really come up with just about anything you wanted if you were willing to do the homework.

[jdm92_accorn]

The borg warner in the pic is currently on a scion frs and spools 15psi by 4k and that's on a round up 2.0L. Its dual ballbearing, billet wheels with s special designed twin scroll exhaust housing to promote spool. Here it is on a 9:1 2.0L evo.

[toycar]

The borg warner in the pic is currently on a scion frs and spools 15psi by 4k and that's on a round up 2.0L. Its dual ballbearing, billet wheels with s special designed twin scroll exhaust housing to promote spool. Here it is on a 9:1 2.0L evo.

No denying the numbers, its just that turbo in particular is a ton of money. A ton. For similar results, you could save thousands.



I dunno.


Do it, you wont. You wont-YOU WON'T





LOL



Just adding my two cents is all. I think its a great unit, just for the performance you are looking to get out of it, there are other options for way less money.


Twin scroll + bb journal is why that baby scrolls like it does. With those options, I've seen this turbo cost $2400+ in the .92 trim and as much as $3500.


Nice unit, no denying that. But, christ, dude, thats tons of money.



***Edit***



HX35 dyno half way down first page, sorry cannot link pic(photobucket giving me grief)

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dyno...hx35-dyno.html




Anyways, just adding what I can to the conversation.


If you buy it, I would like to drool all over it if thats ok.


Just let me know, K?


LOL

[sonikaccord]

I want the Holset HE351VE...If I could make a control method to make the vanes do whatever...

0.5 to 1.something A/R... sigh

[toycar]

I want the Holset HE351VE...If I could make a control method to make the vanes do whatever...

0.5 to 1.something A/R... sigh

.14 to 1.92 a/r




Yup, holset makes some of the sickest turbos.


Controlling one of these babies is as simple as setting up a WG to actuate the vanes off of exhaust pressure.

Presto.


Use a light duty WG spring, like a 5psi jobby from an audi or something similar.


Easy peasy. I had one of these on my race dsm for a while, but eventually went with the hx35 because I started running n2o at idle for better spool. With the VE turbo, it just wasn't having it.


I suppose I could've adopted some sort of electronic boost controller to help with this and played with the spring rate to get it dialed in correctly, but, basically I was spinning the turbo at idle way to fast for the amount of oil pressure I was able to feed it.


I either needed to figure out how to shut it down(electronic boost controller was my first thought, adjusting spring strength in the exhaust powered WG was my second) but in the end I traded the turbo for my hx35 and am very happy with that. I suppose a sump system could've fixed my oil supply issues, but, thats a ton of money.


Fuck that.


This is a pretty good thread about those turbos in particular;


http://www.supraforums.com/forum/sho...51VE-VGT-Turbo

[jdm92_accorn]

Since mine will be less than 2k due to no built in boost control and cause I know a guy, lol. It won't be bad. The whole turbo setup should be under $3.5k.

[toycar]

Since mine will be less than 2k due to no built in boost control and cause I know a guy, lol. It won't be bad. The whole turbo setup should be under $3.5k.

Well thats just damn cool than.


I think you understand where its a turn off for someone that would have to spend retail though right?



Are you going to fab a manifold or have one fabbed? If you have a choice, you should consider a top mount manifold. It'll support the weight of that beast better.


Well, if you are going to fab/pay to have one fabbed.


Good shit man. I'll be watching for sure.



Have you ever turbocharged a car before?

[jdm92_accorn]

i had a 1g gsx, svo mustang and an 87 turbo thunderbird. as far as the manifold goes i'll be buying a pre-fab one from blue ridge motorsports. i will be knife edging the twin scroll exhaust housing and running a non divided t4 manifold.