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    #16
    Originally posted by wildBill83 View Post
    So you aren't planning to cam your monster HP F22 motor? How would that be any different than buying a new set of cams for the H22 and putting the same amount of work into it as you plan to put into an F block? If you are going for a specific build, then you need to select every part to match. If you are telling me with the correct sized cams, tuning for early VTEC, and the correct size turbo I couldn't make a quick 0-60 car? Pshaw!
    show me someone who makes a smaller lobed cam than stock

    Comment


      #17
      Any company that grinds cams can make a smaller one than stock, but that's just silly. What I'm saying is that with correctly sized cams and a turbo plus the work you plan for the F22 would net you more bang for the buck. You are the one who talks all this about a smaller cam, not me.

      Are you really saying that people don't make quick 0-60 H22 turbo motors?

      I'm just confused as to why you think it is cheaper to get an F22A6 and then turbo it up to a high HP range rather than work on the H22... I don't see how it is possible seeing as there is more aftermarket support for an H22 than an F22.

      EDIT:
      I change my tune, the H22 is worthless, you might as well just pack it up on a crate and ship it to me. I'll dispose of it for you. Come to speak of it, my SE with a healthy F22A6 doesn't really need it's motor, so you can have it in trade for that worthless H22.
      Last edited by wildBill83; 09-16-2014, 01:06 AM.

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by wildBill83 View Post
        Any company that grinds cams can make a smaller one than stock, but that's just silly. What I'm saying is that with correctly sized cams and a turbo plus the work you plan for the F22 would net you more bang for the buck. You are the one who talks all this about a smaller cam, not me.

        Are you really saying that people don't make quick 0-60 H22 turbo motors?

        I'm just confused as to why you think it is cheaper to get an F22A6 and then turbo it up to a high HP range rather than work on the H22... I don't see how it is possible seeing as there is more aftermarket support for an H22 than an F22.

        EDIT:
        I change my tune, the H22 is worthless, you might as well just pack it up on a crate and ship it to me. I'll dispose of it for you. Come to speak of it, my SE with a healthy F22A6 doesn't really need it's motor, so you can have it in trade for that worthless H22.
        look at the graph you posted, with that power band your going to want to not hit full boost till about 4k ish so that your turbo doesnt run out of efficiency up top were the H makes all/most of its power. while the F is ment to not be rev'ed up like the H. I want a motor that makes power from 3-5.5k ish not from 4.5-7k

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by wildBill83 View Post
          Any company that grinds cams can make a smaller one than stock, but that's just silly. What I'm saying is that with correctly sized cams and a turbo plus the work you plan for the F22 would net you more bang for the buck. You are the one who talks all this about a smaller cam, not me.

          Are you really saying that people don't make quick 0-60 H22 turbo motors?

          I'm just confused as to why you think it is cheaper to get an F22A6 and then turbo it up to a high HP range rather than work on the H22... I don't see how it is possible seeing as there is more aftermarket support for an H22 than an F22.

          EDIT:
          I change my tune, the H22 is worthless, you might as well just pack it up on a crate and ship it to me. I'll dispose of it for you. Come to speak of it, my SE with a healthy F22A6 doesn't really need it's motor, so you can have it in trade for that worthless H22.
          im not saying the h22 is worthless, its quite an awesome motor N/A or high RPM boost, but i want something that is going to spool faster and make all of its power low.. Also its cheaper cause an f22 goes for what a couple 100, well i could probably sell my h with the s1 cams, s1 clutch, ostrich and hulog with the tune on it for say 1000-1200.

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by 93redcb7 View Post
            see it makes 100hp at 3.5k rpm, i want something that is going to be quick 0-60 not 60-120, yea i can get a turbo to spool to make power sooner, but then it runs out of efficiency and becomes basically a hair dryer... and i guess i havent added in... this is my daily driver, yes i do have another car if i need it though..
            ill be limiting my numbers based on clutch and just pure drivability, i dont want 5-600hp to just not be able to get traction.
            It sounds like you equate low rpm power to quick 0-60 which is not the case. You won't be spending more than a couple of milliseconds below 3.5k if you are performance driving. Since this is your daily you want the benefit of VTEC. It gives you the low rpm and high rpm. The F is not going to generate much more power especially because you're limiting it to daily duty. Also, you can use the long gears of the accord transmission if you plan on making a good bit of power. The more time you can make power in a gear, the better.

            Originally posted by 93redcb7 View Post
            yes i understand that you can change the crossover point of vtec, but for it to work properly you have to crossover when the lower lobes are at their highest efficiency to keep making power, kicking vtec over at 3.5k is just going to bog the motor... trust me when i swaped my h i was having issues and we manual tested it by driving and my friend hit 2 wires together for the solenoid to open, and it just flat falls on its face below say 5k rpm. So in terms of having vtec kick over sooner you would need smaller lobes to compensate for that
            Why would you crossover when the low lobes at performing at their best? For this setup you should ignore VTEC completely as a system and look at the engine as a single cam. For simplicity, of course.

            Originally posted by 93redcb7 View Post
            look at the graph you posted, with that power band your going to want to not hit full boost till about 4k ish so that your turbo doesnt run out of efficiency up top were the H makes all/most of its power. while the F is ment to not be rev'ed up like the H. I want a motor that makes power from 3-5.5k ish not from 4.5-7k
            What does the N/A graph have to do with a turbo besides being able to tell VE? Have you read some efficiency graphs of turbo's? It also looks like you don't quite get the HP/TQ relationship. It's good that the H makes it's 'peak' HP at the top AND maintains its TQ linearity. You won't get that with the F. You'll get a 'peak' HP earlier because the TQ dropoff is steeper on the F.

            Originally posted by 93redcb7 View Post
            im not saying the h22 is worthless, its quite an awesome motor N/A or high RPM boost, but i want something that is going to spool faster and make all of its power low.. Also its cheaper cause an f22 goes for what a couple 100, well i could probably sell my h with the s1 cams, s1 clutch, ostrich and hulog with the tune on it for say 1000-1200.
            I'll buy it
            Last edited by sonikaccord; 09-16-2014, 09:05 AM.

            YouTube Clicky!!

            Comment


              #21
              Just for shits and giggles, here is one of jdm92_accorns dyno of a modified F.

              Pound for pound...stick with the H

              YouTube Clicky!!

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by sonikaccord View Post
                It sounds like you equate low rpm power to quick 0-60 which is not the case. You won't be spending more than a couple of milliseconds below 3.5k if you are performance driving. Since this is your daily you want the benefit of VTEC. It gives you the low rpm and high rpm. The F is not going to generate much more power especially because you're limiting it to daily duty. Also, you can use the long gears of the accord transmission if you plan on making a good bit of power. The more time you can make power in a gear, the better.


                Why would you crossover when the low lobes at performing at their best? For this setup you should ignore VTEC completely as a system and look at the engine as a single cam. For simplicity, of course.


                What does the N/A graph have to do with a turbo besides being able to tell VE? Have you read some efficiency graphs of turbo's? It also looks like you don't quite get the HP/TQ relationship. It's good that the H makes it's 'peak' HP at the top AND maintains its TQ linearity. You won't get that with the F. You'll get a 'peak' HP earlier because the TQ dropoff is steeper on the F.

                I'll buy it
                i wont be limiting it to daily duty, i will also be auto-crossing and drag it once in a while, i dont have the f22 trans now, i have the h23. and yes i understand that you want longer gears to stay in boost longer.
                and yes low rpm power is going to get you 0-60 faster than high rpm power. the faster you get to the power band the faster your going to get to 60

                so use a vtec engine as a non-vtec engine... the whole benefit of the H

                my point, you get peak HP quicker with the F.

                Again that means i could put another 1,000$ into building the F correctly
                Last edited by 93redcb7; 09-16-2014, 02:50 PM.

                Comment


                  #23
                  If you are dead set on building a 400+ hp f motor, save your money and buy an f22a1 since you will be upgrading the intake cam and exhaust anyway.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by wildBill83 View Post
                    If you are dead set on building a 400+ hp f motor, save your money and buy an f22a1 since you will be upgrading the intake cam and exhaust anyway.
                    not a 400+ a 350-400, i dont want more than 400. and if i think right the springs are better in an a6.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Why would you want factory 20+ year old worn springs? A new cam, valve job with valves and springs should all be on your shopping list for a high hp f build.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by wildBill83 View Post
                        Why would you want factory 20+ year old worn springs? A new cam, valve job with valves and springs should all be on your shopping list for a high hp f build.
                        this is true, so i guess i could go with the supertech springs and retainers... or i could use the bisi pro springs and stock retainers

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by 93redcb7 View Post
                          i wont be limiting it to daily duty, i will also be auto-crossing and drag it once in a while, i dont have the f22 trans now, i have the h23. and yes i understand that you want longer gears to stay in boost longer.
                          and yes low rpm power is going to get you 0-60 faster than high rpm power. the faster you get to the power band the faster your going to get to 60

                          so use a vtec engine as a non-vtec engine... the whole benefit of the H

                          my point, you get peak HP quicker with the F.

                          Again that means i could put another 1,000$ into building the F correctly
                          The H has a wider powerband than the F. You can build be peak hp as fast as you want, but you won't be faster than the guy who builds for peak torque and maintains that all through the rev range if both engines have the same peak hp.

                          I didn't say that, I said ignore the fact that is has VTEC and look at it as a single cam. The reason being is you feel that below 5k, the H is weaker than the F when the N/A dyno's say otherwise.

                          You want 400 whp max. With the F you'll be building a lot of torque really fast because you will start falling on your face at about 6k. So say your redline is at 7k...you'll have make at least 300ft-lbs at 7k to have 400hp. Add the fact that it'll be struggling to breathe (relative to the H) and you'll probably be making close to 400ft-lbs peak.


                          With the H, you could probably stretch that out to 8k, with less torque, more traction, smoother and easier to drive. At 8k, you'll have to generate 262 ft-lbs. Because of the two cam profiles, you'll have great lower end too and will probably only have to make closer to 300 ft-lbs. AND that helps the turbo's efficiency as well.

                          All these are very rough calculations, both motors can get there. Go with the F. It looks like you are more passionate about it.
                          Last edited by sonikaccord; 09-16-2014, 03:29 PM.

                          YouTube Clicky!!

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by 93redcb7 View Post
                            i dont have the f22 trans now, i have the h23. and yes i understand that you want longer gears to stay in boost longer.
                            You dont want longer gears unless you like to hear your turbo spooling while the guy with the shorter geared trans has already pulled away and reached the power band. The h23 is a good middle ground, I wouldnt use the f22 trans unless your goal is better gas mileage.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by Sordz View Post
                              You dont want longer gears unless you like to hear your turbo spooling while the guy with the shorter geared trans has already pulled away and reached the power band. The h23 is a good middle ground, I wouldnt use the f22 trans unless your goal is better gas mileage.
                              well sort of, cause if your shifting every 15 MPH to stay in your power band you dropping boost to often. There has to be a nice medium of staying in gear "longer" but not to long

                              Comment


                                #30
                                You can do it cheap, but you have to work harder for it.

                                First decision, forged or no? If your goal is 400+ whp then spend the money. If your goal is closer to 300 whp just get a stock motor.

                                For the money, you cant beat a holset turbo for this power level. $300 will get you one in good shape.

                                Hiprofile injectors area a good cheap option, or you can decap some subaru injectors like I did and get 800CC injectors for cheap cheap.

                                One thing about transmissions, the f22 gears don't seem that long when you have 400 whp.
                                spin city

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