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F22A Bisimoto Header: How well is yours working?

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    F22A Bisimoto Header: How well is yours working?

    http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthre...60#post3112760
    ^^^Since this thread was closed due to some of comments posted (I assume), it prompted to think a bit. A quick search on the forum, I couldn't find a thread in line of what I am about to ask, so I am making this thread. Also I felt that I am obligated to make this thread due to some of members' interest on how my header be treated or fixed by Bisimoto.

    I would like to, as the title says, know how well is yours working as far as leak issue is concerned. Did it work well right out of the box, leak free? Or, did you have to do something to contain the leak? How did you do it? How is it installed on your car/engine? Please post up actual photos if you have.

    Please do not post about power gain or loss. Please do not post what you read about it on other thread or forum. Please do not make those readings as appear to be your own experience. Please do not post what you think about Bisimoto as a company or as a person. Please do not post story about any other product sold by Bisimoto or other company.

    Here's mine. I bought this when the last group buy was going on. Pictures were taken soon after it was delivered. Words in the pictures are reflect of my emotions at the time. If you see that as negative to Bisimoto, that may be your own view.









    I had it sitting on my rack without contacting Bisimoto because doing so did not produce any positive result on one of members. He said that in his own thread/post other than this one. You can read the same in the following post here.

    My header was sent back to Bisimoto for inspection and correction because he(Bisi) was nice enough to offer to pay for shipping charges. You can read this in that closed thread.


    As of today, Feb 16, 2013, my header you see above is with Bisimoto waiting for inspection since it was delivered on Jan 22, 2013.


    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    2/21/2013
    Some of posts made on this thread were erased or deleted and some of remaining posts does not make sense. So read on with that in mind please.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    2/23/2013
    In one of those deleted posts on this thread, there was a comment saying in effect that I should have expected some leak because of Bisi header has slip joints. Below are exhaust pipes removed from an aircraft. These pipes are equipped with slip joints. Since AVgas use lead there will be white deposit if a joint is leaking. As you can see, there's no white deposit around the slip joints indicating no leak. This is what I am accustom with and what I expect from slip joints.






    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    I hope this thread will be a benefit to the current owners as well as future owners of Bisimoto headers and to Bisimoto Engineering.
    Last edited by oyajicool; 02-23-2013, 03:38 PM.
    A&P-IA

    #2
    Mine leaked so bad, I had taken it apart and tryed every form of sealant i could to fix it as suggested by the great customer service of Julio after stating that this is normal operation for a "Custom" race header..

    I'm digging through my Photobucket now for my pics ill edit this when i find them.

    Edit:



    Sorry for the shitty quality, Buy as you can clearly see.. The primary does not seal into the collector. There's no way around the fact that its a fitment issue and not an issue with the collector, but the primary location.
    Here's a couple of it off the vehicle from last night:


    Again sorry for the shitty quality.
    Last edited by Cb_JoeyG; 02-21-2013, 04:57 PM.

    8 Accords so far:
    '81 SE Sedan(1st Gen), '83 SE Sedan(2nd Gen), '89 SE Sedan(3rd Gen)
    '89 DX Sedan(3rd Gen), '92 LX Coupe(4th Gen), '92 EX Wagon(4th Gen)
    (3rd gen parts car) I'm currently Driving a '14 Accord Sport 9th Gen

    Comment


      #3
      Just had to share this thread from another forum; http://www.thezcr.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26125
      Pictures of the two headers are half way down the first page.

      Check out the high school welds that are being accepted/passed QA and shipped. These welds would fail even the most relaxed QA in most areas of business. It's quite obvious of all of the mistakes and holes that have been reworked. The start and stop points are terrible.... Not to mention I don't think the proper amount of purging gas was used on the top sides of these welds. The inside is very evident that no purging gas was used at all. This is made obvious by the white residue (sugaring/oxidation) around the welds.

      Even the temperature and filler rod control (welders technique) is elementary. Made obvious by the amount of overlap and undercut on a lot of the welds. Just another reason for a weld to crack. Very easily taken care of...get a welder who knows just a little bit about what he is doing.

      I called out the QA of these headers in a thread on H-T back when they first came out. I was bashed and flamed for weeks for being a Bisi hater..... 4 years later, I rest my case!
      Last edited by GhostAccord; 02-16-2013, 02:04 PM.
      MR Thread
      GhostAccord 2.4L Blog

      by Chappy, on Flickr

      Comment


        #4
        OP,
        This is a copy of an email that I just sent to you:
        I read your correspondence, and I would like to shed further light on your situation. Your unit is in line for modification to amend what may be a leak with primary to collector interface. The race season is upon us, and our fabricators are working very hard to fulfill orders, including the amendments to yours. To insinuate that “nothing is being done” is far from the truth, and not very pleasant.
        Moving forward, I would ask you to kindly only communicate with me if any questions or concerns arise. I will follow up this email with similar thoughts shared on the forums, as I am heavily concerned if you have taken my gesture, and staff communication, in a negative light.
        My goal is to rectify this for you, and the process does take a little time. Thank you.

        I see how inflamatory and negative your title is. I am taken aback by this, and quite confused. It is an invitation to bash, as Ghost accord has (in normal fashion) exhibited.
        I stand by my products, and if there are any abnormal leaks, above and beyond dlight seepage upon startup, I will rectify it. They are slip fits, and as all slip fit applications, seal properly upon heat expansion.

        I AM TRYING TO HELP YOU, AND IT IS MET WITH NEGATIVITY. I really do not understand this...at all. Other company heads in our industry would run from this, but I have met this with assistance and transperency.

        I used the same concepts on all of my personal cars, including the Bisimoto F22a insight.
        http://youtu.be/dy8nO4Lgv8k

        I hope that helps, and stay tuned for updates.
        'Bisimoto D15/D16/F18/F22
        World's Fastest and Quickest TRUE unibody all motor FWD
        World's Fastest All Motor SOHC Honda
        1988 CRX Unibody, D16 full street: 12.68 @ 107mph
        1988 CRX Unibody, D15 full race: 10.77 @ 123mph
        1988 CRX Unibody, F22A full race: 9.81 @ 139mph
        2006 Insight Unibody, F22A: 9.26 @ 152mph
        NEW!:www.bisimoto.com: parts, dyno tuning, apparel, technology!
        Bisimoto's Facebook page
        478 HP naturally aspirated F22A!!!

        Comment


          #5
          Bisi, keep this in perspective, please. He has a considerable sum of money invested into something he has not been able to use. If you're committed to your own customer service model and doing what you believe is right then you can't compare yourself to what other companies do. Your ethical standards dictate that you stand by your products so do that and you're good.

          You also have to keep in mind that you investing time and resources into the racing season needs to be independent of the time you give to customer service issues. While that may not realistically be possible with your resources it is perfectly reasonable that a customer should not consider your endeavors as more important than their outstanding issues. This is not my business as I am neither you nor the customer in question but the time that the header has been back with you without any work having been done to it seems excessive at this point. It sends the message that he is not important because you already have his money.

          Please also understand that many people have been watching these threads with considerations toward purchasing products from your company. You did great with the springs and retainers you recently offered as far as making good gestures towards potential customers. Please keep that type of streak up. This header issue is front and center to everyone's interest in how their opinion of Bisimoto is formed and is extremely important that it be handled as such.

          The short version of what I'm saying is that it just needs to get done to a level that satisfies the OP as he's the one that has a financial investment made. Just understand the situation's implications also.
          My Members' Ride Thread - It's a marathon build, not a sprint. But keep me honest on the update frequency!

          Comment


            #6
            Invitation to bash in my normal fashion, What???? I was only letting people know about the quality of the product and the reasons why they are the way they are. A lot of people would see these errors and have no idea what they are looking at. Hand over their money and then wonder why they cracked, rusted or leaked.....

            For your sales rep to spill the beans and admit that your welder(s) are finally using back purging added proof to my original findings. You cannot get proper fusion and quality welds leaving the backs of the weld open to the atmosphere.

            I am not bashing you personally, the design is cool and I get behind the fluid dynamics of it. It's the product quality and QA that has been less than spectacular at times. Along with the way issues have been handled. It is unfortunate that you put your name on the product.

            My engine builder told me up front that it was race build season and that I could ether pay the same rates they do. Or I could wait until he slows down. I chose to wait...at least he told me up front. That's what I see as being an issue here, being up front with your customers!

            Time to nut up! Ether go all corporate and drop the everyday joe or treat all of your customers with the same quality customer service that I am sure your company is capable of.
            Last edited by GhostAccord; 02-20-2013, 03:45 PM.
            MR Thread
            GhostAccord 2.4L Blog

            by Chappy, on Flickr

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Bisimoto View Post
              OP,
              This is a copy of an email that I just sent to you:
              I read your correspondence, and I would like to shed further light on your situation. Your unit is in line for modification to amend what may be a leak with primary to collector interface. The race season is upon us, and our fabricators are working very hard to fulfill orders, including the amendments to yours. To insinuate that “nothing is being done” is far from the truth, and not very pleasant.
              Moving forward, I would ask you to kindly only communicate with me if any questions or concerns arise. I will follow up this email with similar thoughts shared on the forums, as I am heavily concerned if you have taken my gesture, and staff communication, in a negative light.
              My goal is to rectify this for you, and the process does take a little time. Thank you.

              I see how inflamatory and negative your title is. I am taken aback by this, and quite confused. It is an invitation to bash, as Ghost accord has (in normal fashion) exhibited.
              I stand by my products, and if there are any abnormal leaks, above and beyond dlight seepage upon startup, I will rectify it. They are slip fits, and as all slip fit applications, seal properly upon heat expansion.

              I AM TRYING TO HELP YOU, AND IT IS MET WITH NEGATIVITY. I really do not understand this...at all. Other company heads in our industry would run from this, but I have met this with assistance and transperency.

              I used the same concepts on all of my personal cars, including the Bisimoto F22a insight.
              http://youtu.be/dy8nO4Lgv8k

              I hope that helps, and stay tuned for updates.
              Bisi, I have stayed out of this up to this point, but must side with Jarrett.

              You offered a product or service, were paid in good faith and failed to deliver. It is not a negative reflection on your business that was not brought upon by yourself. The bottom line is that for $650 a header, the customer has every reasonable expectation to get a good quality product right out of the box. Not after sending it back, not after 3 rounds of modifications, and not after 6 months of waiting.

              Do it right the first time, or don't do it at all.

              For the record, I am sure you are a good guy, and I know that I personally appreciate your efforts to provide for the CB7 community (which is why I have never said anything). Your engineering ability is without question or challenge, but your service leaves a lot to be desired, and frankly, these stories keep people like me from touching your product because I simply will not tolerate this level of service and quality at ANY price.

              As for the racing season, I understand that your resources are limited, but again, I must side with Jarrett. You failing to correct an issue because you are busy is no different than the customer expecting to pay you in installments, or not paying you at all. How would you feel if he drove around with your header for months before he paid you for it? I am guessing that would be unacceptable. You sold the customer a product and should stand by it, even it that is an inconvenience for you. Anecdotally, as a person who has worked in customer service my entire working life, I see a sort of feedback cycle here. Fixing the product is inconvenient because it takes time from your other activities, but at the same time, you need to keep customers happy for business considerations. It seems to me that the ultimate silver bullet here is delivering the quality in the first place because not only would that satisfy the customers paying a lot of money for your product, but it would also free up your resources by eliminating the need to fix everything that comes back. Sounds like a win/win to me. It would also avoid having to see threads like these all over the internet, and would instead transform such threads into glowing reviews of your product and quality.
              Last edited by owequitit; 02-21-2013, 12:54 AM.
              The OFFICIAL how to add me to your ignore list thread!

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by GhostAccord View Post
                Invitation to bash in my normal fashion, What???? I was only letting people know about the quality of the product and the reasons why they are the way they are. A lot of people would see these errors and have no idea what they are looking at. Hand over their money and then wonder why they cracked, rusted or leaked.....

                For your sales rep to spill the beans and admit that your welder(s) are finally using back purging added proof to my original findings. You cannot get proper fusion and quality welds leaving the backs of the weld open to the atmosphere.

                I am not bashing you personally, the design is cool and I get behind the fluid dynamics of it. It's the product quality and QA that has been less than spectacular at times. Along with the way issues have been handled. It is unfortunate that you put your name on the product.

                My engine builder told me up front that it was race build season and that I could ether pay the same rates they do. Or I could wait until he slows down. I chose to wait...at least he told me up front. That's what I see as being an issue here, being up front with your customers!

                Time to nut up! Ether go all corporate and drop the everyday joe or treat all of your customers with the same quality customer service that I am sure your company is capable of.
                I understand your position, but we have this. To avoid getting this one shut down too, please just let it roll off your back.

                Your opinion is certainly valid (I mostly agree with it in fact) and the evidence thus far supports what you are saying.

                It seems odd coming from me, but there is no benefit to turning this into a pissing match at this point.
                The OFFICIAL how to add me to your ignore list thread!

                Comment


                  #9
                  CyborgGT, if you had a TV that you needed to return to Wal-Mart but there were no dedicated customer service employees to assist you with that, you'd be upset. Imagine having to wait until one of the cashiers helping customers was finished or had a free moment to come over to customer service to help you. Knowing the traffic inside Wal-Mart that wait could go on indefinitely. The mentality behind a service like that is that you don't have the new customer's money so you need to earn it. But for those poor souls who are having problems with items already bought it's less of a priority because their money is already in the bank and has probably already been spent.

                  You seem so passionate about defending someone for whatever your reasons are that you're not being logical. What if the race season were to dictate that the OP didn't receive his header back until August. Is that acceptable? Keeping the issue concealed benefits no one but Bisi. And please quit calling people an ass-hat because you're too confused to see that he's upset about a purchase.
                  My Members' Ride Thread - It's a marathon build, not a sprint. But keep me honest on the update frequency!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Thanks for the feedback, and I have taken the comments into consideration. It is no suprise that what I predicted is happening is this thread already. I never called the OP names, and we have communicated with him throughout the process.

                    The unit is still in in line for modification, and the OP will be notified upon completion.

                    In regard to positive feedback, there are tons, and here is a few samples of F and H series clients with great success:

                    http://youtu.be/dg0ZNLU66Io

                    http://youtu.be/pjkjubb6rhc

                    http://youtu.be/EkDluwnA67M

                    http://youtu.be/ibSWswq35gQ

                    http://youtu.be/9AfSEb_HpIc

                    The Bisimoto headers ARE the most advanced F units on the planet, and the new v3 designs are even more superior. The OP will be very pleased with the performance upon recieving his unit back. Thanks, and have a pleasant weekend.
                    'Bisimoto D15/D16/F18/F22
                    World's Fastest and Quickest TRUE unibody all motor FWD
                    World's Fastest All Motor SOHC Honda
                    1988 CRX Unibody, D16 full street: 12.68 @ 107mph
                    1988 CRX Unibody, D15 full race: 10.77 @ 123mph
                    1988 CRX Unibody, F22A full race: 9.81 @ 139mph
                    2006 Insight Unibody, F22A: 9.26 @ 152mph
                    NEW!:www.bisimoto.com: parts, dyno tuning, apparel, technology!
                    Bisimoto's Facebook page
                    478 HP naturally aspirated F22A!!!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      This thread needs to remain focused, constructive, professional and informative.

                      Points made by all parties involved and faults. This information should be presented in an informative and professional manner in hopes of company improvement. Being unprofessional does not help either this forum or the company involved. Overall intention should be to help the company improve and benefit our community.

                      Your actions are recognized across all forms of media, so one must act accordingly ALL the time.
                      HondaFan81 For Sale Parts (LOW PRICES ON EVERYTHING)

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Wow, you dontlike what someone has to say so rather than editing an admittedly stupid comment out of my post, you shut me out completely. Model of professionalism. The rest of what i said is true, that coming on a forum to complain about a problem is not going to help you. This guy waited until just recently to approach a company about a defective product he bought months ago, timeliness is obviously not important to him. Me,i'm an extremely patient person, i've gone through several similar situations in my life. Just recently i had a service quoted at two weeks take just over a month because the guy was busy. It's understandable. Not all of us are naturally so irritated by it, so the whole thing just seems a bit incredible to me. Because based on how the thread was created, it appears as more of an attack on a company rather than an innocent request to fix a problem.

                        Oyajicool, if you even caught my comments in the short time they were up, im sorry for the personal attacks.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Edited my first post with some pictures to help with the topic on hand. I did not have a choice in the matter as to send my header in originally, when given the option and told that if i paid shipping both ways they'd "take a look" for me. At the time i considered that not exactly worth downing my daily driver for a month or 3

                          8 Accords so far:
                          '81 SE Sedan(1st Gen), '83 SE Sedan(2nd Gen), '89 SE Sedan(3rd Gen)
                          '89 DX Sedan(3rd Gen), '92 LX Coupe(4th Gen), '92 EX Wagon(4th Gen)
                          (3rd gen parts car) I'm currently Driving a '14 Accord Sport 9th Gen

                          Comment


                            #14
                            The amount of leaking shown in Cb_JoeyG's images is dangerous.... I think the company at hand should take a different stance in the resolution of this issue. They should pay all shipping required to fix this issue ASAP. That would not pass our yearly vehicle inspections. Carbon monoxide inside the cab would also be a major concern.......


                            Question;

                            Are these headers being sold as 49/50 state legal? I don't see anywhere on the website that states that they are for off road use only.
                            Last edited by GhostAccord; 02-21-2013, 05:20 PM.
                            MR Thread
                            GhostAccord 2.4L Blog

                            by Chappy, on Flickr

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Yea the fumes were a bit much in traffic. Could never have my heater set to fresh air for fear of exhaust fumes in the cab with my children in the car. One of the factors in me picking up the wagon as my new daily was this header and its leaking exhaust fumes

                              8 Accords so far:
                              '81 SE Sedan(1st Gen), '83 SE Sedan(2nd Gen), '89 SE Sedan(3rd Gen)
                              '89 DX Sedan(3rd Gen), '92 LX Coupe(4th Gen), '92 EX Wagon(4th Gen)
                              (3rd gen parts car) I'm currently Driving a '14 Accord Sport 9th Gen

                              Comment

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