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Very unique intake valves

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    Very unique intake valves

    So, a guy named Vince who is a tinkerer/inventer approached me several months ago about a very unique valve design that he resently patented.

    He wants to put a set of these valves into my engine for testing purposes and to get some data on them. He's only used them in V8's, and other domestic engines and is curious as to how much of a performance impact they will have on an econo-box 4 banger.

    Now, I'm sure most of you haven't the slightest idea as to what I'm talking about...a valve is a valve right?...wrong.

    These valves that he has designed use a CNC machined floating ring around the valve to serve as a floating seat, this floating seat allows the valve to close itself when intake air tries to reverberate back into the manifold. Follow me so far?

    These valves are only for the intake side of the head and pretty much allow you to have as much overlap as mechanically possible without any losses in the low end, as a matter of fact these valves cause the torque curve on the low-end of the powerband to see dramatic increases. Also, because the valve essentially closes itself when air tries to escape the combustion chamber it makes even the most wildly cammed motor idle like stock.

    I've seen the prototypes for these valves and I have also seen the documentation and dyno sheets. The best example he gave me was a Jeep rock crawler, they loaded it on the dyno, and placed a load on it, in order to maintain that load without stalling the motor, it had to be held at nearly 4000rpm. They then tested the same vehicle with his intake valves installed under the same load, and the Jeep idled through the load at only 550rpm...that's astonishing in my book. Also, the torque curve was impressive and climbed nearly 50lbs. ft.over the baseline, at only 800rpm...

    Now, Vince basically wants me to install these intake valves and the largest overlap cam I can find. He has guarenteed that even with something similar to the Delta 282 race cam, my car will idle even lower than stock and will come to life at 500rpm and all the way till the cam runs out of juice, no 4000-7000rpm powerbands, just constant, consistent power.

    I'll be seeing him again at SEMA tomorrow to give him one of my F22a intake valves so that he can make the prototypes for me. I just wanted to tell you guys about this amazing opportunity and I wanted to get your input. I know that the idea is a bit out there, but I have seen the proof and I understand the logic behind the design. This design also works well on turbo motors, allowing greater overlap in the cam without sacrificing any power. Let me know what you guys think, and I will keep you posted. I also need to know if anyone has specs on the Delta 282, as well as personal experience with idle, powerband, piston-valve clearance, etc. I will try to get some pictures or diagrams of the valves if he'll give them to me, but I know that these are still in the prelimenary stages of design and manufacture and he is still rather hush-hush about them.

    -Kyle
    SOHC Non-VTEC F-series for life

    "It is the fools prerogative to utter truths that no one else will speak."
    -Morpheus (The Sandman)

    #2
    I'm skeptical but trial and error never hurt anybody. If It ends up working and you see the dramatic increases and improvements, how much would the valves and the cam be sold for???


    I like my women like I love my cars, built for comfort and speed........

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      #3
      sounds like an infomertial

      correct me if im wrong but in a turbo w/ overlap situation the intake valves donít really matter because if the exhaust valve is open when air is being forced in there its going to start pushing out the exhaust valve before its closed whether or not you got some special intake valve
      Last edited by Mike; 10-31-2006, 08:29 AM.

      Old Ride-New Ride

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        #4
        think again

        If theres no more air that can be crammed into the cylinder the piston going up will create a pressuredifferance causing this valve to shut. No matter what pressure.

        No projects at the moment... danm

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          #5
          interested...would love to try them out myself actually.
          Knowledge is power...in EVERY sense of the word

          FSAE (F Series Accord Enthusiasts) ..."A dying breed thats taking it to the next level" #12

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            #6
            Well, I talked to Vince, and gave him one of the f22a's intake valves and he is going to starting working on it sometime next week, after SEMA is over.

            I had Dennis from HP Heads (one of the best head guys in Vegas) take a look at the design. He believes that will work well, but he's not sure about two issues; noise and long term street use. He said these may cause some noise because the rings move and then the valve shuts on them, also could have issues if the rings become dislodged from their seats around the valves or get stuck in the closed position. But other than that he thought there was sound logic behind the design, and the dyno doesn't lie.

            For any of you that may not have understood what I meant when I explained how these work...consider it "true" "variable valve timing". I say that because the valve will shut, not when the cam determines it should, but when cylinder pressure is high enough to close it on its own. Vince also explained to me that as the RPM increases the valves will end up shutting closer and closer to where they "should", so these are really designed to take up the area of the powerband where a larger cam doesn't make as much power, it fills in the torque curve. I'm still trying to get a copy of the before and after dyno graphs from the Jeep test.

            -Kyle
            SOHC Non-VTEC F-series for life

            "It is the fools prerogative to utter truths that no one else will speak."
            -Morpheus (The Sandman)

            Comment


              #7
              The theory is brilliant, but i have a difficult time picturing that actual setup in the combustion chamber. Any pictures, dyno sheets, anything would be awesome too see. It would be great to have for everyone running the 272s in thier daily driver if they do turn out to be quiet and durable enough

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Wiccanvampier
                Well, I talked to Vince, and gave him one of the f22a's intake valves and he is going to starting working on it sometime next week, after SEMA is over.

                I had Dennis from HP Heads (one of the best head guys in Vegas) take a look at the design. He believes that will work well, but he's not sure about two issues; noise and long term street use. He said these may cause some noise because the rings move and then the valve shuts on them, also could have issues if the rings become dislodged from their seats around the valves or get stuck in the closed position. But other than that he thought there was sound logic behind the design, and the dyno doesn't lie.

                For any of you that may not have understood what I meant when I explained how these work...consider it "true" "variable valve timing". I say that because the valve will shut, not when the cam determines it should, but when cylinder pressure is high enough to close it on its own. Vince also explained to me that as the RPM increases the valves will end up shutting closer and closer to where they "should", so these are really designed to take up the area of the powerband where a larger cam doesn't make as much power, it fills in the torque curve. I'm still trying to get a copy of the before and after dyno graphs from the Jeep test.

                -Kyle
                It is hard to visualize, but the theory seems logical.

                Since power at an RPM is all about breathing at that RPM, I can see where this would have a profound effect. It allows us to remove the HIGH RPM/LOW RPM compromise.

                My guess would be that overall gains will be relative to displacement, but if he can get this to be reliable at high RPM's, I think he may have a winner.


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                Comment


                  #9
                  I got ahold of Vince and he directed me to his website where he explains the valves. The link below is an article that was written about the technology, check out his site, it explains a lot.

                  http://www.omnivalves.com/news-photos.html

                  -Kyle
                  Last edited by F22Turbo702; 11-18-2006, 11:46 PM.
                  SOHC Non-VTEC F-series for life

                  "It is the fools prerogative to utter truths that no one else will speak."
                  -Morpheus (The Sandman)

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Makes a lot more sense now i my head with pics but damn!! those are some thick ass valves!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Those are pics of the prototypes, the actual production valves are the same size as stock valves. The only thing that sucks is that the floating seat has to be machined before the valves are assembled, so I need to get my head finished and give him the valve seat angles so the valves and seats will match.

                      -Kyle

                      PS- glad it makes more sense now.
                      SOHC Non-VTEC F-series for life

                      "It is the fools prerogative to utter truths that no one else will speak."
                      -Morpheus (The Sandman)

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Man I was looking towards the future ( for efficiency sake) and waiting for
                        honda to bring out a Gas direct injection engine to swap in so I'm not throwing all my $$$ into one tank of gas every week but, This sounds and looks like a great idea. Once all bugs are worked out for noise ( well really durability) that dude is gonna make some serious $$$.
                        I hope this will be an " affordable " technology when it's first released.
                        Life is wide, limitless. There is no border, no frontier ~ Bruce
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                          #13
                          as long as they are pretty durable.
                          i'll be investing in them when they come out. ha
                          uh... if by overboosted you mean "right the fuck on" then, sure, it is.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            if this really works like they say on that website u better be good good friend with that guy cuz his going to be one rich son of a gun.

                            Not my fault my dick only fits magnums.
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                              #15
                              Very nice.

                              It seems to me that as long as they can withstand the RPMs and the metallurgy is right, these could be very awesome.

                              The way you described them makes a lot more sense now.

                              I would consider a set.

                              Hondas are about the best engines to test their durability on too.

                              Although a crotch rocket would probably work too.


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