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Nitrous timing retardation

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    Nitrous timing retardation

    So with a large shot of Nitrous I understand that the timing has to be set back in order to prevent detonation. What I am wondering is can I set the timing back with a timing gun and moving the dizzy? I know it would probably be safer to tune the ecu for nos and timing change but is it really "unsafe" to do this by moving the dizzy?

    Also are there any consequences for setting the timing back while not spraying?
    R.I.P. Veronica - JDM F20A swapped 2.0 Si wannabe.

    #2
    The consequences are, are that your cars not gonna run as efficient off the spray. That is, unless you're gonna be putting the dizzy back when you don't plan on spraying which is a lot of work.

    Depending on what you've got done and how big of shot will help out a lot too if you could include that.

    Comment


      #3
      im pretty sure if you dont tune the ecu and you retard the cam then youll blow something if you spray. dont quote me on that, but im thinking some valves are getting fucked up.

      Comment


        #4
        well im thinking 75-100 shot. and i have been looking at the NOS sniper kit.
        R.I.P. Veronica - JDM F20A swapped 2.0 Si wannabe.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by GenDBlade View Post
          im pretty sure if you dont tune the ecu and you retard the cam then youll blow something if you spray. dont quote me on that, but im thinking some valves are getting fucked up.
          Incorrect. I ran a 70 flywheel shot on my s2k untuned (no timing pulled) for a year and a half before I bought a standalone AEM EMS.

          With stock compression on a f22a/b, you could probably spray a 70 flywheel shot as well with no or just 1 degree pulled from stock timing being 8.8:1 compression.

          Something that most people have no clue about nitrous is to read your spark plugs. More importantly, know how to read your timing mark on your ground strap. Heres a great writeup on it. You should use this method to see how much timing you should pull after a test run and you pull the plugs RIGHT AFTER the run with turning the engine off right at the end of the run to get a good read.
          http://www.robertsnitrousservice.com...lugwriteup.htm

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by CB7 Sleeper View Post
            well im thinking 75-100 shot. and i have been looking at the NOS sniper kit.
            As long as you're bottom end is sound and not pushing it, you can run a 100 shot with stock compression no problem. I'm not sure on the bottom end as I'm newer to CB7's so I would look how much it could handle. I would start off with the 50 shot and pull your plugs to see what they look like. You want to see the timing mark at the middle of the curve on the ground strap for best results. Then do the 75 shot, check and adjust again. Then do the 100 shot, check and adjust. Its best to work up in steps rather than just going to the 100.

            Also, do not use any fuel additives like octane booster or your plugs will be covered in orange dust and you wont get a good read.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by D1sclaimer View Post
              Incorrect. I ran a 70 flywheel shot on my s2k untuned (no timing pulled) for a year and a half before I bought a standalone AEM EMS.

              With stock compression on a f22a/b, you could probably spray a 70 flywheel shot as well with no or just 1 degree pulled from stock timing being 8.8:1 compression.

              Something that most people have no clue about nitrous is to read your spark plugs. More importantly, know how to read your timing mark on your ground strap. Heres a great writeup on it. You should use this method to see how much timing you should pull after a test run and you pull the plugs RIGHT AFTER the run with turning the engine off right at the end of the run to get a good read.
              http://www.robertsnitrousservice.com...lugwriteup.htm
              nice, the write up is helpful. so i can run with the timing set back on the dizzy? and this is safe and running on a tune for the nos isnt necessary right away?
              R.I.P. Veronica - JDM F20A swapped 2.0 Si wannabe.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by D1sclaimer View Post
                As long as you're bottom end is sound and not pushing it, you can run a 100 shot with stock compression no problem. I'm not sure on the bottom end as I'm newer to CB7's so I would look how much it could handle. I would start off with 3 degrees pulled from your timing and then read them like the writeup I linked to. You want to see the timing mark at the middle of the curve on the ground strap for best results.

                Also, do not use any fuel additives like octane booster or your plugs will be covered in orange dust and you wont get a good read.
                well, im not going to be using an F22a, Im doing an F20a DOHC swap with very low mileage, practically new. Im unsure what the bottom end can handle but its going to be stock yes.
                R.I.P. Veronica - JDM F20A swapped 2.0 Si wannabe.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by CB7 Sleeper View Post
                  nice, the write up is helpful. so i can run with the timing set back on the dizzy? and this is safe and running on a tune for the nos isnt necessary right away?
                  You can do that, but like I said, its not gonna be the most efficient off of the spray since you're setting timing for on the spray. If you're just setting it back 1-2 degrees, you're not gonna notice a crazy drop in performance for off the spray.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    so a small retard in timing isnt very noticable off the spray? anything above 2-3 degrees is noticable?

                    with an ecu tune, how would this work. would the ecu recognize the spray and retard timing on its own? im confused about this
                    R.I.P. Veronica - JDM F20A swapped 2.0 Si wannabe.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by CB7 Sleeper View Post
                      so a small retard in timing isnt very noticable off the spray? anything above 2-3 degrees is noticable?

                      with an ecu tune, how would this work. would the ecu recognize the spray and retard timing on its own? im confused about this
                      Chipped ecu or Hondata, I have no clue as I haven't used those.

                      With my AEM EMS standalone ECU, it has an extra set of pins on the ECU for switches. I have a relay wired into it so when the relay activates the nitrous solenoids, the ECU gets a positive voltage to one of the pins as a "switch" and then switches maps to the nitrous map from getting the positive voltage.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Try this: http://www.nitroussupply.com/faq.php


                        And you migh talk to RICHIE*GT35R. He was a HUGE help when I had questions!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by visualpoet View Post
                          Try this: http://www.nitroussupply.com/faq.php


                          And you migh talk to RICHIE*GT35R. He was a HUGE help when I had questions!
                          awesome thanks!
                          R.I.P. Veronica - JDM F20A swapped 2.0 Si wannabe.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            You can also check out a Bisi level 2.3 camshaft. These cams are specifically designed for squeezing (nitrous) applications. Also, retarding your ignition is a great idea. However, how much retarding will be needed depends on the amount of nitrous. You should look into a ignition timing control like MSD. This device basically allows you to automatically retard the spark when the nitrous system is in use. This way you avoid soggy, retarded timing when you are not using your nitrous. If you need a MSD unit, I will help you out. Pm me.
                            Last edited by robert@bisimoto; 12-04-2009, 02:55 AM.
                            Bisimoto Engineering
                            1) Call 1-888-9BC-MOTO(888-922-6686 ext. 1) Mon-Fri 9am-6pm PST
                            2) Email me, robert@bisimoto.com
                            3) Contact me on AIM, robert@bisimoto.com

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