Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

JDM h22a OBD2 swap in 1991 accord Lx Using OBD2 stuff.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    JDM h22a OBD2 swap in 1991 accord Lx Using OBD2 stuff.

    I recently did a head change on my f22 I was going to do the top and bottom but I couldn’t be without the car for long so I just did the top end. Well now it is burning oil. So I decided to just buy a JDM H22a. The day that I was going to order the motor from HMO, I was searching through Craigslist and found one in my area timing belt and stuff already done. Cheaper than the HMO motor by a good bit plus TB parts replaced with OEM. So I decided to get it.
    The catch. I had done all the research I knew exactly what I needed. Not any more this motor was OBD2. everybody says just swap all the parts for OBD1. That gets expensive. The guy I got the motor from said I can use the OBD2 stuff. Most of it anyway.
    So here is a journal for my swap.


    My plan was to use the OBD2 stuff. All except the ECU. I will be using a jdm p13 to start and then hondata s300 in my chipped p28 after all is running well.

    Most of the swap is straight forward like the OBD1 h22a. However there are several main differences I have noticed
    1. Throttle body mounted MAP sensor
    2. Dizzy. OBD2 has one plug OBD1 has two plugs.
    3. Injectors. OBD1 are low resistance , OBD2 are high resistance
    4. Most OBD2 jdm motors I have seen don’t have a vtec oil pressure switch

    The Motor JDM h22 96. It came from JDM engine corps in TX


    Valve cover removed. I've seen cleaner but I'm ok with this. A couple 1000 mile oil changes and some ATF and I should be fine.




    1. MAP SENSOR: You can use the accord MAP sensor and just ignore the prelude MAP on the top of the TB. But why. Using the prelude map should give a more accurate reading bc it is directly on top of the TB and Doesn’t have a hose that may have a hole in it and cause a skewed reading. There is a diagram on here done by Ronald Type-R. I will post it. Pretty much cut and solder the wires together and use the prelude map.
    http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthre...3&page=2&pp=20


    2. Dizzy: It is well known that the internals for both dizzys are the same. So what are the differences. It’s the plugs both dizzys have 8 wires. My OBD2 dizzy wires were the exact same color as the wires on my OBD1. I opened up both dizzys and confirmed that they all went to the same location. Ie coil wires, crank sensor and ICM wires. Some I could see but the colors were the same. Below is a pic of the finished dizzy rewired up for OBD1. I also have a backup OBD1 dizzy I purchased just in case.





    3. INJECTORS: I can understand using the dizzy but really, the injectors have advanced so much since 92-96. Any way. There are basically two types of injectors saturated OBD1 low impedence and peak and hold high impedance OBD2. Now my plan with this motor is realiability and Fuel economy. So eventually I plan to run RDX 410 injectors. Running high impedance injectors in our cars is fairly simple. The ECU sends a high impedance signal from the factory. Our accords have a resistor box which effectively knocks the signal down to work with the injectors. One other difference is the obd1 injectors are 345cc and the obd2 are 290cc. I have not researched that as much to know the long term results seeing that most of you will run a P13 which is calibrated from the factory for 345cc. Remember I have a hondata so adjusting fuel trim can be done easily. To bypass the resistor box you merely need to solder the 5 wires that go into the box together essentially deleting the box. Now I try to cut the harness as little as possible so I cut the plug from a accord in the JY. Sorry if someone needed that plug. Pics to follow.

    Injector wiring was straight forward. All the cylinders were the same between both engines. The accord common was yellow/black and the prelude common was red/black. Soldered the OBD2 plugs on.

    Where I did have trouble was mounting the plastic thing that holds the wiring for the injectors. It is pressed against the valve cover.

    I've read where people had issues with the OBD2 injectors since they are 290 compared to the obd1 345. But honestly I don't know if maybe they didn't delete the resistor box or what. Because this engine is strong with these injectors. I was thinking I may have to get the 345 but to be honest I don't think I need them.
    Last edited by Stoner51; 02-09-2013, 09:01 AM.

    #2
    4. VTEC OIL PRESSURE SWITCH: Most of the OBD2 JDM h22a I have seen didn’t have this. If you are like me mine had a bolt in its place. So I went to the JY and picked up one of these. Any Honda vtec motor will do. Unscrew the bolt and screw in the pressure switch. This plug should have two wires.
    I wired this in; it was fairly simple. Green wire to the ecu and black wire to the ground on the T Stat housing.

    5. POWER STEERING: I have a line from a 98 prelude. I will post pics of what is needed to bend the line to fit in the accord chasis. I have searched and have yet to see any pics. Just people saying the bent it a little. If you are like me you want to know how much and is this doable by me.
    FAIL for me anyway. I will take it to a hydraulic shop to fix it. Well the hose I ordered was for a 95 vtec lude. I don't know how everybody bent the lines but when I tried they cracked. Looking on ebay. It seems the si lude(h23) line should be a closer fit. I took my power steering line to a fabircator. He attempted to use hydraulic splice to put the lude top on the accord bottom. But there is a metal slinky running through the line and he couldn't. Prob if you cut the line low toward the rack you could. But I told him to cut it so the connection would be behind the engine. He was able to heat the lude connection and pull it off. Then he bent the pump part of the accord line and welded the lude connection on. he matched the shape of the lude line. Then it was angled too far down. So we just bent it up about 45 deg. It test fit well. We will see how it fits in real life hopefully tomorrow.. I will post pics of all the lines I have. Accord and the two lude lines so you can see the diff.
    The lines that I have From top to bottom.
    98 prelude h22 vtec hose. See the end that goes into the rack. Its way short. Mine cracked while bending
    93 Prelude H23. This is close and should be easier to get to fit.
    91 accord line from advance(don't buy this line it is too small of a dia and your pump will squeal all the time)
    Lastly we have the best option. 91 accord hose, bent at the PS pump end with 98 lude end welded on.

    Next you can see the pump ends. There is a difference in the H23 and H22 diameters. You can see in the pics.
    From top to bottom.
    91 accord
    93 h23 Prelude
    98 h22 prelude


    I had to get a new return hose for the power steering pump. I used 5/8 fuel line.


    6. IACV: Mine came with a two wire IACV



    Parts.

    Timing belt, balance belt, balance shaft seals and new retainers, cam seal. KS manual tensioner(easiest adjuster to use), rear main seal, new oring for the oil cooler, exedy OEM clutch, Ngk wires, NGK zf6fix-11 iridium plugs. New clutch master and slave cylinder .
    All seals and belts are OEM minus the alt and power steering belts. Which I will post the sizes when I fully assemble and measure them.
    I used the accord crank pulley and the belt sizes are.

    ALT/AC/CRANK: 43 inch, You could maybe go 42.5. But I know for sure 42 doesn't work.
    PS: 40 inch.




    Thanks

    steve
    Last edited by Stoner51; 04-01-2013, 10:59 PM.

    Comment


      #3
      Post Swap Tuning/problems:
      Not really a tuning problem but these ebay gaskets suck and the bolts aren't worth a shit either. This after one day.

      Some how I always manage to have trouble with the timing belts. And this is no different. No matter what I tried the cams always moved. Finally in the end I got it right.
      Last edited by Stoner51; 02-07-2013, 08:53 PM.

      Comment


        #4
        Wow. What a task this has turned out to be. Nothing bad just seems to be taking me forever.
        And I still haven't started it yet.
        Problems I have had.
        One of my ECU plugs was too big. I thought they were all the same size.
        Power steering. I cracked the line trying to bend it to get it to fit. Does everybody go around the sway bar or under it. So next week I will go to a hydraulic shop and get then to fix it.
        Taking the engine out was easy. Putting it in required lots of help
        For some reason I always have trouble with my passenger side axle. And this is the case now. As it won't go it.
        Wiring is straight forward. Swap is straight forward. I am just slow.
        So far 3 hours for engine out and 6.5 hours today. I started late because I thought It would take just a little longer than the removal. WRONG

        Hopefully tomorrow I will have it running.

        steve

        Comment


          #5
          This is actually quite interesting. I've heard that it's possible, but never seen anybody actually document the project. This opens the doors to a lot of options I think. There are even bluetooth devices that plug up to the OBD ports so that you can real-time monitor stats as well as codes through a smart phone. I really hope you succeed with the swap. It'd be a great addition to the community information pool.

          Comment


            #6
            I should prob rename the thread. I am only using the obd2 accessories and a obd1 computer.


            steve

            Comment


              #7
              I got the timing thing straightened out last night.. Picked up my power steering hose from the fabricator yesterday.
              Got the new power steering belt and a new return hose for the power steering.
              I should get off work tomorrow about noonish and I plan to put in the power steering stuff. and then Hopefully that will be just about it.
              Everything runs good. No problems that I can tell. Going to take it easy for about a month. I won't get on it until I am sure all is goo.

              Comment


                #8
                Nice to hear that the timing issue was sorted. Timing can be a real pain until you've done it a few times.

                I know not many are posting but I am following this as you go.
                My Members' Ride Thread - It's a marathon build, not a sprint. But keep me honest on the update frequency!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Thanks.. I am no mechanic. So this swap is done by an average guy with average tools. I searched around and all of the info was scattered around. I would assume as time goes by more people will have to use the obd2 motors. Sooner or later Japan will run out of OBD1.
                  The only thing that really worried me about this swap was the power steering and I bombed that. However with my newly made hose I should be set.
                  I will post pics of the hose I gathered from searches that I was to use And I don't see anyway I could have made that work.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Subscribed.
                    "My FOR SALE thread - Click here"

                    MEMBERS RIDE

                    99 SILVERADO

                    WHEEL FLIP

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Finally someone who friggin understood what I wanted. I have called every damn hydraulic shop in this town. And got the same answer. "oh we can't do power steering lines" WTF its a damn hydraulic line why not.
                      Anyhow after 2 weeks of searching I get this.



                      And the good thing about this is, you can tighten the bottom end and not attach the pump portion and it will be easier to get in with the motor in. Then you can tighten the top and your done. Should you ever need a new hose because this one leaks. You only have to get the middle rubber portion. You don't have to buy the whole hose. I almost think anybody with a leaky hose should do this. Even if you aren't swapped.

                      I'm happy with this. Can you tell.

                      Oh cost me $65. $40 cheaper than the Advance auto hose I got for the F22 that made the pump whine bc It is too small.

                      steve

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Well everything is running good. Changed out the leaking PS steering line for the one I had made. No leaks in the PS. Oil seems to be clean. I changed it at 1000 miles and put in castrol synthetic in the gold bottle 5w-30. I'm using mobil 1 filter. I have some engine flush I will prob use next oil change and then note the difference in the top end.
                        So all in all this is doable with the OBD2 parts. Dizzy and Injectors. You will need an OBD computer. The car ran fine on the p13 I just wanted the s300.
                        Here are some pics of it installed. I know I was going to post some pics during the swap but I was a little pressed for time and I had some help over and didn't want to hold them up longer than I had too



                        Power steering line. I did shave some off the PS pump because I am using the accord crank pulley. Seems to me the spacing for this pump would be using the Prelude bigger crank pulley.



                        Maybe somebody will find this info useful.

                        steve

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Stoner51 View Post
                          Finally someone who friggin understood what I wanted. I have called every damn hydraulic shop in this town. And got the same answer. "oh we can't do power steering lines" WTF its a damn hydraulic line why not.
                          Anyhow after 2 weeks of searching I get this.



                          And the good thing about this is, you can tighten the bottom end and not attach the pump portion and it will be easier to get in with the motor in. Then you can tighten the top and your done. Should you ever need a new hose because this one leaks. You only have to get the middle rubber portion. You don't have to buy the whole hose. I almost think anybody with a leaky hose should do this. Even if you aren't swapped.

                          I'm happy with this. Can you tell.

                          Oh cost me $65. $40 cheaper than the Advance auto hose I got for the F22 that made the pump whine bc It is too small.

                          steve
                          Do they make one with the 92 to 95 prelude top part of the PS hose? Where did you get it?

                          My swap thread
                          Main relay proplems?--DIY

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I took this to a shop that makes hydraulic hoses. You can take whatever ends you want them to make I took the pump end to 98 prelude and my 91 accord bottom end. He took the factory crimps off. Cut the ends flush. Then he brazed what looked to me to be a AN fitting. One of those fittings on both ends and then He made a hose to go in between.
                            I told him to make the hose 32inches. I think I prob could have gone with 30in. The hose is 3/8 ID. It works good. I think maybe If we went 1/2in it would have been better. I have some noise from the pump, but it doesn't increase when I turn the steering wheel. It is constant. So I don't know if it is the hose being too small or I need to rebuild the pump.
                            I had the Advance auto replacement hose that made noise bad and this is nothing like that noise. I can live with it.
                            The hose is Parker. I googled a dealer near me and went and told him what I wanted. And this was exactly what I had in mind.

                            The hose cost $65. If the whinning pump bothers me I can get just the replacement middle for about $45 in a bigger diameter.

                            steve

                            Comment


                              #15
                              So 4 downpipe gaskets later. I still have a leak.

                              So after searching I found out this is common because the brackets are warped. So I ordered the percys downpipe gasket 60017. It came in the mail. It was a little off on the holes so I took the dremel to it and enlarged the holes.
                              Then I took my belt sander to the bottom flange. Checked it with my straight edge and it was closer, not perfect but close. Since this is a five layer gasket I may have been able to just use the gasket and not flatten the surface. After 4 weeks I'm tired of screwing with it.

                              Time will tell.

                              Hopefully it will hold me till june when I can hopefully get my header.

                              steve
                              Last edited by Stoner51; 03-30-2013, 06:53 PM.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X