H22 or turbo F22?

[deevergote]

Quite honestly, ANY turbo Honda application will NEVER be as reliable as a stock motor. In fact, pretty much all factory turbo cars have a shorter lifespan than NA cars. Turbo just wears things out faster. Don't be fooled by thinking a well built and maintained F22 would be more reliable than an H22 in good condition with the same amount of maintenance.

If you have money, why not find a blown H22 for cheap (you can grab one for about $500, if you look hard enough) and build that for boost? I know it's not one of your options, but hell... if you're going to go turbo, and you're planning on building, why not do it to the better motor? The F22 is a great motor, but if you can afford to do it to the H, it's got more potential... and the presteige that goes with the turbo H is nice as well!

Don't think I'm knocking turbo F22s though... I'm building one myself! I'm doing it on a budget though... if I had the money, I'd rather have a boosted H, or at least F22B DOHC.

[mondojackal]

Quite honestly, ANY turbo Honda application will NEVER be as reliable as a stock motor. In fact, pretty much all factory turbo cars have a shorter lifespan than NA cars. Turbo just wears things out faster. Don't be fooled by thinking a well built and maintained F22 would be more reliable than an H22 in good condition with the same amount of maintenance.

If you have money, why not find a blown H22 for cheap (you can grab one for about $500, if you look hard enough) and build that for boost? I know it's not one of your options, but hell... if you're going to go turbo, and you're planning on building, why not do it to the better motor? The F22 is a great motor, but if you can afford to do it to the H, it's got more potential... and the presteige that goes with the turbo H is nice as well!

Don't think I'm knocking turbo F22s though... I'm building one myself! I'm doing it on a budget though... if I had the money, I'd rather have a boosted H, or at least F22B DOHC.

i'm in the same boat...i don't have that much money..i am gonna need some help later on, mike...hope i can depend on you for some info!

[85gts]

all factory turbo cars have shorter life spans than n/a apps? i don't think so. probe/mx6 gt's are very well built motors and many have lasted longer than there n/a counter parts. the ONLY reason why it wouldn't is abuse from the owner. that's not to say the motor general doesn't have it's problems, but non of which is sourced from the turbo. more electrical than anything to do with engine components.

[mondojackal]

yeah, i agree..you have to think...people that buy turbo's cars, or turbo their cars aren't normal drivers...people dont turbo charge a car to baby it with the right foot...that prolly has a lot to do with the fact that turbo doesnt last as long as N/A...

[85gts]

but see...i'm willing not to go cheap and fast...i'm going reliable/fast...which means it ain't cheap. I could build the tranny first but the cars lookin kind of hash. so i'm going to end up painting her first and the suspension is going so it's getting changed as well...of course all in due time. but the least i will go to is to build my tranny...in my other post you will see. i am keeping the auto...so nobody tell me about how much better it would be with a manual..lol. i won't go manual unless i have to. and that's if my built level ten tranny goes.

[TheTempest]

yeah, i agree..you have to think...people that buy turbo's cars, or turbo their cars aren't normal drivers...people dont turbo charge a car to baby it with the right foot...that prolly has a lot to do with the fact that turbo doesnt last as long as N/A...

not to be an ass...but the people who drop h22s in their car's aren't normal drivers ethier. Well...at least I'm not. Just my two cents.

[85gts]

what does that prove? what do you think is taking more abuse? a N/A h22 that puts out 200hp or a turbo'd motor...anyone...putting out 300? I had a 85 Celica GTS...hence the sig...that had a 22re. Had over 200,000 miles, pounded the living crap out of that motor and it still pulls as hard to this day as to when i first got it with 140,000 miles on it. i added a header, and a cam. it probably put out a whoppin 100+hp and 150 something tq...woo hoo. point is...it's harder to break a lower HP motor. you will more likely break it from over reving than actually blowing a piston out, or anything for that matter. now if you are trying to tell me a stock bottom end H22 can handle 300+HP turbo'd and it's gonna last longer than a built bottom ended F22 making the same HP i would say that you would be wrong.

[deevergote]

I said it could handle 300hp... not how long, though. Turbo on any stock bottom end Honda will break things eventually. It's not made for it. I have yet to meet someone with a turbo Honda that has gone over 100k miles without breaking something. My H22 is about to break the 100k mark now, and I've never had an issue (half of it's life to date was spent in my car).

Also, I'm not saying that a built NA motor will last any longer. That just wasn't part of the discussion. Performance parts are made to withstand abuse moreso than stock parts, but they aren't always designed for long term reliability. Look at sport tires. They'll perform under extreme conditions much better than stock 80,000 mile tires, but they'll wear out faster.

An H22 with IHE and a few other minor goodies will last longer than a turbo F22, provided that the motor is in good condition. Turbo F22 offers more immediate power, even with stock internals. A BUILT turbo F22 will be quite expensive, but produce decent power. However, a built turbo H22 would offer even more potential. If you're going to shell out the cash to build a motor, my advice would be to start with the best motor for the job. DOHC motors offer more flexibility in cam tuning, and the H22 head is designed to flow better than the economical F22 head.

[TysCb7]

I feel that there is no point to turbo a honda with an h22 or f22, because it is a HONDA ACCORD even if it is all done right and you have spent countless hours on tuning at the end of the day its still a front wheel drive! Im not saying turbo cars suck or anything im just saying it would be a lot smarter to turbo a car that can handle it better like a 240sx. just my .02

[Direthought]

Ok, so your real question here is how involved you want to get into the car/project. The H22 will not be as much, but will just be about spending a good deal of money on one product. F22 other story, spending money on many different things that you hope will live in harmony as you drive it.
Thats the real question, how involved do you want to be? If money isnt the issue than you must figure out how much wrench time you want to spend.
If you think about it, its also how much power you want, and whether you want to deal with VTAK!!!
When you get the F22 fully built, where else do you go? More boost is just gonna rip the motor to shreds even if properly tuned and blah,blah,blah. It will just wear out the motor.
On the other hand, the H22 after being built up could be changed to the turbo set-up allowing more power that would easily surpass the F22's with relativly low boost.

Its all about involvement and noone will really make your mind up for you.

[oneoffaccord]

i say go with a h22 built, n/a that bitch. you will have more fun with it. it also depends on the tranny that you are using. if you do a h22 us the h22 tranny. if you go h22 boost use the f22 tranny. having a built f22 turbo will be different but it will never surpass the h22. dont matter what you do. theres nothing like the sound of a vtec cracking or a sound of a turbo boosting

[deevergote]

I feel that there is no point to turbo a honda with an h22 or f22, because it is a HONDA ACCORD even if it is all done right and you have spent countless hours on tuning at the end of the day its still a front wheel drive! Im not saying turbo cars suck or anything im just saying it would be a lot smarter to turbo a car that can handle it better like a 240sx. just my .02

Dodge SRT-4?
Eclipse GS-T?
Probe/MX-6?

Where's the harm in FWD? Sure, you can't drift it. Sure, when you're making 700hp, you have traction issues. However, who cares when building a street car? I know of VERY few people here (even 2point6, who owns his own shop) that are building a CB7 to be a pure race car. In fact, since the inception of this board, I only know of 2... one fell off the face of the earth (I assume the project was abandoned) and the other, owned by soysaucecb7, was wrecked.

As a street car, a FWD platform is just fine. RWD and AWD are just other options... matters of preference, not superiority.



So, can a Honda engine make a good turbo motor? Sure. Will it last for a long time? Probably not, but who knows. Build it well, with good parts, and it'll last long enough, most likely. Will a fully build NA motor last? Probably no longer than a turbo motor. Will a stock H22 last? Sure, if it was and continues to be well maintained.

Direthought makes the best point here... how involved do you want to get? A lightly modded H22 will be the easiest route. You could even throw a 50 shot of nitrous on there, along with simple bolt on mods, and get into the high 13s (IHE, cams, pulleys, ECU tuning). Is that enough? I've seen fully built turbo F22s getting into the 12s, ready to break into the 11s. I personally know 2 guys with turbo H22s that are making over 400hp (one may be pushing 500 by now). The more power you make, the more you have to know... Once you start a major project, you can't halfass anything.

[Direthought]

Involvement is what seperates you from everyone else on this board. From what i've seen, the majority here just want to lightly mod their accord and then keep it that way. Not getting involved keeps them from spending too much money. This example is geared toward everyone who has just bought an A6, or h23 intake manifold, coldair, and exhaust, along with a 272 regrind. I'm not trying to flame or bash but, thats the base of the base for our vehicles.

Sure, you can buy an H22 and then lightly mod it, but then you are just onto the H22 bandwagon.
Then agian, you can go turbo F22 and add yourself to that list.

I'm not saying everyone has to be unique, but if you want to be at least a little different you have to put some time into it. I suggest you get the H22, and then go crazy N/A with it. Granted there isnt much that you can do more-so flow-wise seeing as its a air-flowing monster.
You gotta figure it out man, How much time do you want to spend finding the parts, researching the bad ones from the good, and then finding out how well these work with others. Along with whether to increase, decrease displacement... etc.
Its all about your involvement. I cant preach that enough.

P.S. If money isnt an issue, drop a K into your engine bay. Try out a K24, but if you gotta just use a 20.

[Accord R33]

So, can a Honda engine make a good turbo motor? Sure. Will it last for a long time? Probably not, but who knows.

hey...watch your moutch biatch. 2 years+

every problem i ever had with my car was completely unrelated to turbo


SR20 fo life! i mean uh.......f..2..2

[deevergote]

But you're not going to get another 200k out of your turbo motor, Eric. Perhaps your new SR20, since it's made for that... but not the F22. Regardless, any project is worth doing, as long as you understand the limitations and consequenses.

For example, the H22 IS a little heavier than the F22. Not by a whole lot, certainly not as drastic as putting it in a Civic, but there is a difference.


Honestly, the only thing innovative that hasn't really been done on here is supercharging. Nobody that I know of makes a supercharger kit that will fit on our cars properly (the Prelude kit requires firewall modification at the very least). I've been thinking about a centrifugal supercharger system on the H22, since I believe that could be made to fit (battery relocation, skinny radiator, etc...) Such systems are insanely expensive though, compared to the budget turbo systems availible.

There are a number of respectable turbo guys on here. Accord R33 here and Midnite Racer X have established themselves as some of the resident gurus. There are quite a few others that have done some great things as well. 2point6 has the most impressive all-motor H22 here (as far as I know), and Hondafan81 is in the process of building an all-motor F22 that should be interesting (the man is uber-technical, so he's going to know everything that's going on!) Accord SiR and H22sparkle are the most referenced H22 turbo guys, each making around or over 400hp. We also have someone who has an F22 fully built for nitrous... I forget who that is though (doesn't post much, I don't think... but he's from NJ like me )

When it comes down to it, just consider your long-term goals. If reliability is a concern, the stock H22 will be your best bet. If you want the cheapest power possible (aside from nitrous) then a budget turbo kit will be best. Turbo is easily upgradable too, so it's good for piece-by-piece improvements.