ENG: H-series Plenum on F22A6 runners

[98vtec]

nah, unfortunately....i, myself never got to dyno test it. I moved to a EuroR IM so spending money on testing that didnt really make any sense to me.

not to mention the euroR gave me 14whp and 13 ftlbs peak and gained everywhere from 3k-redline (minus the vtec crossover)

reducing the total volume of the IM and then tuning for it will make a noticeable difference.

Jeff Evans noted on his forum that he made 5whp across the whole operating range (pretty sure it was 5whp).

[owequitit]

nah, unfortunately....i, myself never got to dyno test it. I moved to a EuroR IM so spending money on testing that didnt really make any sense to me.

not to mention the euroR gave me 14whp and 13 ftlbs peak and gained everywhere from 3k-redline (minus the vtec crossover)

reducing the total volume of the IM and then tuning for it will make a noticeable difference.

Jeff Evans noted on his forum that he made 5whp across the whole operating range (pretty sure it was 5whp).

I was just curious, because numerous people have said this, but the few dyno graphs I have been able to see don't seem to bear it out. Of course, it is unlikely that they are retuning the engine at the same time too, so that may be the key difference.

I just figured maybe you would have had some dynos to post that would give one more verifiable option on this.

The other option is to double stack the Blacktrax IM spacers and remove the IAB plate that way too. This seems to have shown some rather promising gains on an H22 as well.

Don't know how well either method would work with the F22 since it is a completely different engine though.

[98vtec]

The other option is to double stack the Blacktrax IM spacers and remove the IAB plate that way too. This seems to have shown some rather promising gains on an H22 as well.

Don't know how well either method would work with the F22 since it is a completely different engine though.

looking back on it, i wish i would have tested it. I've spent so much money on the dyno that another 50 dollars really wouldnt hurt me, lmao. But i'm beyond the point now of proving this for a stock motor now that i have internal mods and a hybrid in the making.

I have tried the blacktrax spacer as well. An 8 port one, which i port matched the manifold to (blacktrax ports were a good bit bigger) and the car just didnt feel as powerful, even after tuning. it didnt have the ummpphh factor, lol.

[owequitit]

looking back on it, i wish i would have tested it. I've spent so much money on the dyno that another 50 dollars really wouldnt hurt me, lmao. But i'm beyond the point now of proving this for a stock motor now that i have internal mods and a hybrid in the making.

I have tried the blacktrax spacer as well. An 8 port one, which i port matched the manifold to (blacktrax ports were a good bit bigger) and the car just didnt feel as powerful, even after tuning. it didnt have the ummpphh factor, lol.

With one spacer they seem to lose in the bottom and gain just a bit on top, probably for an overall loss under the curve. According to their testing dynos.

With them double stacked, they seem to gain about 8WHP in the top, with no loss on the bottom, again according to their published dynos.

I am thinking about testing a few of these.

[98vtec]

there was a guy on HT who independently tested the plates and they had no where near 8whp gains, lol.

blacktrax is awesome, i love natalie.....but its called marketing.

[owequitit]

there was a guy on HT who independently tested the plates and they had no where near 8whp gains, lol.

blacktrax is awesome, i love natalie.....but its called marketing.

I am aware of the differece between marketing and everyday gains which is specifically why I disclosed the source...

However, having said that, "independent" testing, has potentially just as much room for error, and perhaps it didn't work with his setup. Considering what other people have unlocked from the stock H22 manifold, people whom I trust their judgement and have PROVEN their performance, a nice gain is probably possible. There is no logical reason why it wouldn't make at least similar gains compared to just removing the IAB plate, which on a stock engine has shown to decrease power in the bottom end.

Of course, according to you, not if you tune it. Luckily, Blacktrax also published all of the conditions of their dyno test, down to the car and the mods on it. It too had an EMS, so perhaps that was a factor. Of course, according to them, they didn't retune.

Of course, 90% of the "scientific" stuff I have seen on HT is a joke, and would not be repeatable, and in many cases was not even tested throughly. There are a few people on there who I respect, but there are far more ridiculous flamers who think they know everything there is to know about a car, but seem to find disappointing results in many places.

So their results must also be taken with a grain of salt.

8WHP from Blacktrax spacers is probably optimistic in most cases, but that doesn't mean it is impossible. Anyone should know that it will depend on each and every setup on a case by case basis, because no two engines or builds are the same.

[98vtec]

I am aware of the differece between marketing and everyday gains which is specifically why I disclosed the source...

However, having said that, "independent" testing, has potentially just as much room for error, and perhaps it didn't work with his setup. Considering what other people have unlocked from the stock H22 manifold, people whom I trust their judgement and have PROVEN their performance, a nice gain is probably possible. There is no logical reason why it wouldn't make at least similar gains compared to just removing the IAB plate, which on a stock engine has shown to decrease power in the bottom end.

Of course, according to you, not if you tune it. Luckily, Blacktrax also published all of the conditions of their dyno test, down to the car and the mods on it. It too had an EMS, so perhaps that was a factor. Of course, according to them, they didn't retune.

Of course, 90% of the "scientific" stuff I have seen on HT is a joke, and would not be repeatable, and in many cases was not even tested throughly. There are a few people on there who I respect, but there are far more ridiculous flamers who think they know everything there is to know about a car, but seem to find disappointing results in many places.

So their results must also be taken with a grain of salt.

8WHP from Blacktrax spacers is probably optimistic in most cases, but that doesn't mean it is impossible. Anyone should know that it will depend on each and every setup on a case by case basis, because no two engines or builds are the same.

oh i know how you feel, i'm a moderator on there....i gotta clean up the garbage

i have done enough testing with intakes and manifolds to know the following, for a "stock" JDM h22a:

skunk2 IM - eh
stock manifold - eh ok
stock manifold minus IAB plate and retuned -
stock manifold minus the valves - eh
EuroR IM -

have yet to do any testing on the double stack so i cant give you any real opinion on it.

[owequitit]

oh i know how you feel, i'm a moderator on there....i gotta clean up the garbage

i have done enough testing with intakes and manifolds to know the following, for a "stock" JDM h22a:

skunk2 IM - eh
stock manifold - eh ok
stock manifold minus IAB plate and retuned -
stock manifold minus the valves - eh
EuroR IM -

have yet to do any testing on the double stack so i cant give you any real opinion on it.

Based on the work of others, such as 2point6, the stock H22 manifold can outperform the Euro R, if prepped properly.

Also, keep in mind this is the F22A6 we are dealing with, and not an H22. Most IAB removal gains I have seen are beyond the real powerband of the F22 anyway, so one could assume that with a similar displacement, and less revs, the effect would be either a) marginal or b)altogether not there.

[98vtec]

Based on the work of others, such as 2point6, the stock H22 manifold can outperform the Euro R, if prepped properly.

Also, keep in mind this is the F22A6 we are dealing with, and not an H22. Most IAB removal gains I have seen are beyond the real powerband of the F22 anyway, so one could assume that with a similar displacement, and less revs, the effect would be either a) marginal or b)altogether not there.

well yea, if prepped properly....but then its not really a "stock" manifold, lol


i bolted on the euroR manifold in comparison to my usdm manifold port matched to the blacktrax spacer then retuned it.



same dyno, couple days apart.

[ja23merz]

i need some clarification on which ports are the inlets and outlets on the iacv and fiv. i read through the diy, but im still so confused. my temperature seems ok during idle, but when i drive, it goes up a lot, sometimes to the top. my fans turn on, i checked the thermostat, did everything i can think of. i think i definitely have the coolant lines mixed up. im in desperate need of help

[accordaffair]

http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showpost...1&postcount=27

Also, remember to set your tps

[ja23merz]

so does that work perfectly for you? i looked at it and compared it w/ the original diy instructions, and there seems to be some differences. but ill try it tomorrow.

[accordaffair]

Mine has worked perfectly on 2 cars

[Losiracer2]

it's all about re-routing the coolant lines correctly, that's the hardest part.

[starchland]

thanks for the info man!