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Raf99 : 1993 Accord EX

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    I'd say you are correct. Thanks !

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRflF01FgIw

    Comment


      Originally posted by Raf99 View Post

      " I pulled the pistons, honed the cylinders, installed new rings, rod bearings, and valve seals"


      While I want to do this work myself, I am no where close to the experience level and don't have the tools. I'm assuming you have all the tools etc? or take it to a machine shop for full rebuild / assembly?
      First time for everything. I didn't have the experience either, but was trying to save my daughter some money because I picked the vehicle out for her. Bought the Honda Service Manual. Used my engine hoist to lift the engine enough in the bay to remove the oil pan, then supported it with jack stands from underneath. Had to remove the oil pump/balance shaft assembly to get to the rods. I had a shop clean and check the head and install the new valve seals. The only tool I had to buy was the ball hone. Just a lot of wrenching to take things apart and put it back together. I guess I cheated some, I cleaned and reused the original pistons; I probably should have installed new. There was just a hint of piston slap under some conditions afterward. I was able to take my time (I probably had it here for at least 3 months) because I was able to loan her a rescue project Accord.
      90 LX 4dr 5 spd 395,000 - MRT: http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=201450
      07 Element EX AWD 205,000 - MRT: http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=210623
      07 Element EX AWD AT (2) 102,000 - MRT: www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=211920
      08 Element LX FWD AT 227,000 - MRT: fleetw00d : 2008 Honda Element LX - CB7Tuner Forums
      LOTS of CB7 parts - ENTIRE COLLECTION - FREE
      Come and get it. http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=192583

      Comment


        Is there a test for valve seals? smoke machine under pressure?

        Just not a fan of buying thousands of dollars worth of parts when we don't know 100% that's the issue. I think you are correct so far as no-one else has an explanation. Obviously this issue only happens on WOT / vacuum so I'll never be able to reproduce unless I take the car for a drive with the clear jug left in the engine bay or put it on the dyno. But that will just tell me what I already know; oil making it's way to the catch can.

        I also think if I rip the engine out and "investigate" i won't find the issue either. I read some horrible forums where people sold their car as they could not figure out this issue. Others sent the engine to the machine shop for full rebuild and then still had the issue (I find that impossible).

        Comment


          That video... so you got no oil coming out of the catch can hoses during that test, but lose a lot when they're hooked up to the can? Could it just be a matter of the inlet ports on the catch can not being at the proper height in relation to the ports on the valve cover (similar to how the radiator cap needs to be the highest point in the cooling system)? Are the ports on the back of the valve cover above the baffles? I'm not near my engine, but I remember there not being much space above the baffle, so I wonder if ports can even be welded along the vertical walls and still work properly.
          Last edited by CyborgGT; 09-28-2020, 10:44 AM.

          Comment


            Originally posted by CyborgGT View Post
            That video... so you got no oil coming out of the catch can hoses during that test, but lose a lot when they're hooked up to the can? Could it just be a matter of the inlet ports on the catch can not being at the proper height in relation to the ports on the valve cover (similar to how the radiator cap needs to be the highest point in the cooling system)? Are the ports on the back of the valve cover above the baffles? I'm not near my engine, but I remember there not being much space above the baffle, so I wonder if ports can even be welded along the vertical walls and still work properly.
            Yaa i hear ya. but shit's done proper and this setup has been rock solid for 6+ years now! And I imagine it's not filling the catch can or clear jug here unless under load. & the highest load.



            Fleedtw00d is right most likely. Something is wrong and it's along the lines of valve seals (maybe on #4 in particular), cracked piston or rings. AND only happens when under full throttle (high pressures). I'm asking every experienced person I know and I have all different answers. One mechanic told he it was just now settling in and this is normal. (5+year settle in period? or... 10,000km). Tuner hinted at oil passage / orifice broken, but he's thinking of the B series that had a piece in there.

            I'm not sure what to do at this point. Not sure if this is normal or not. Some high HP cars use a drain back system, but... I've seen 600+HP cars with no catch can at all! ..... i dunno.

            My current thought is ....... it's broke. Was working great, now will puke all of her oil into the catch can if I allow it.

            There's two ways to fix this.

            1. Expensive
            2. Not so expensive

            Comment


              Looking back at your post with the diagrams, they don't show these oil orifices (#3 & 4, in middle of image), except what looks to be a vague reference on your second-to-last image as "oil control orifice" on the left side of each camshaft system:


              https://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com...e-rocker-arm-3

              They have their own o-rings as well. They have a threaded center bore, so if you have a tiny bolt laying around of the right size, you thread it in to have something to hold onto as you pull them straight up and out.

              Comment


                Not sure it's related to this issue though. & why would anyone want to pull this thing out? It's the passage way to the cam oil ways.

                Comment


                  I did when I originally disassembled my head for the build (can't remember if it was actually necessary, but I was "upgrading" everything, if not at least having it inspected; I did have my rocker pads polished), then again when I degreed my cams (to lock the VTEC rockers), since they also serve to lock those rocker shafts in place. I think I've heard of the o-rings going bad, though, so I replaced mine since I was already replacing every other seal in the engine.

                  The oil flow diagram was confusing me. I couldn't tell if the oil going through those rocker shaft orifices ends up circulating through the center orifice as well. Looks instead like the oil just exits into the head via cam lubrication?

                  But I'm just now seeing the leak down results on the same card as the compression test. This look at leak-down tests agrees with fleetwood's thoughts on a piston/cylinder related issue, but also mentions the head/head gasket as a possible cause. Maybe a passage that's on its way to clogging up, causing problems with oil returning to the crank case and choosing a path of least resistance through your catch can? ... just throwing ideas out. The engine's got to come apart at least partially to really look at anything.
                  Last edited by CyborgGT; 09-28-2020, 05:21 PM.

                  Comment


                    Ya, i agree that oil is simply coming out via the cam oil holes and staying in the head. & with positive pressure it takes the only exit.

                    So question for ya'll. How come some cars use a catch can drain back to the block and some do not?

                    Comment


                      I thought you said earlier that you don't lose as much if you drive it conservatively? Was the YouTube video of your engine?

                      Use or not of a drain back system on the catch can may depend on how well the baffling (if any) in the engine works to limit how much oil gets blown to the can. If the engine is healthy and the baffling works well, then minimum oil loss. If the baffling doesn't work well, or there isn't any, then more oil is expected in the can so they set it up to return it to the engine.
                      90 LX 4dr 5 spd 395,000 - MRT: http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=201450
                      07 Element EX AWD 205,000 - MRT: http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=210623
                      07 Element EX AWD AT (2) 102,000 - MRT: www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=211920
                      08 Element LX FWD AT 227,000 - MRT: fleetw00d : 2008 Honda Element LX - CB7Tuner Forums
                      LOTS of CB7 parts - ENTIRE COLLECTION - FREE
                      Come and get it. http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=192583

                      Comment


                        Ya was mine. Temps may play a role in this too of course and obvious pressures. Thanks for the help btw.

                        A cheap fix would be to simply replace the seals only. But... the other head parts are OEM / 27 years old and probably should be addressed. I was thinking of simply trying to get skunk2 valve kit. (i technically should replace the cams but ahhh dunnno. $$$ )

                        Comment


                          Well now that the head is off. 2 more tests. Turn off the lights in the garage and shine a flash light down the ports. See if you can see any light leaking through into the combustion chamber. Lay the head up on the studs on one side to do this. Another test again while the head is up on it's side is spray some carb/intake/brake cleaner down into the ports and see if it leaks out of the valves.

                          The intakes could be ever so slightly bent and leaking back pressure out and filling the catch can.
                          MRT: 1993 Honda Accord SE Coupe (Lola)

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Raf99 View Post
                            I was thinking of simply trying to get skunk2 valve kit. (i technically should replace the cams but ahhh dunnno. $$$ )
                            If you're talking S2 springs and all that, let me know if you go through with that route. I've got the spring bases sitting around that I can't use and could send you for just the cost of shipping. At the time, I didn't realize they were intended to adapt their B-series springs to the H head and weren't the same size as OEM.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by CyborgGT View Post
                              If you're talking S2 springs and all that, let me know if you go through with that route. I've got the spring bases sitting around that I can't use and could send you for just the cost of shipping. At the time, I didn't realize they were intended to adapt their B-series springs to the H head and weren't the same size as OEM.
                              Ya, I think I'd have to have the whole set to use those (springs and cam shafts), wish I could find some Skunk2 cams on sale.

                              Comment


                                Yep. I hope this is a valve seal vs. a cracked piston. I cannot duplicate the amount of oil I was seeing the other day, but will still say something is wrong.
                                Great sound effects clip if anything. GoPro was in the engine bay.

                                https://youtu.be/sSXC815lU4I
                                Last edited by Raf99; 10-04-2020, 03:47 PM.

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