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Raf99 : 1993 Accord EX

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    Wish this site worked properly.......... fingers crossed it gets fixed soon.

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      Originally posted by CyborgGT View Post

      If you're talking S2 springs and all that, let me know if you go through with that route. I've got the spring bases sitting around that I can't use and could send you for just the cost of shipping. At the time, I didn't realize they were intended to adapt their B-series springs to the H head and weren't the same size as OEM.

      So the springs you have are for the B / K series head ?

      Comment


        I replied to your Visitor Message about that to try out that feature.

        Comment


          Originally posted by CyborgGT View Post
          I replied to your Visitor Message about that to try out that feature.
          Ya, I like to be able to see what I'm trying. So why would I want to use B series springs in an H head? Why wouldn't I use H22 springs?

          Comment


            It just sounded like you were considering getting S2 springs as a future upgrade for yourself (maybe I misunderstood when you said "valve kit" and assumed you meant the whole head setup), and S2 doesn't make springs specifically for the H22. They make B-series springs, and then instead of making H-specific springs, they made thicker spring bases that allow you to install their B-series springs on your H head.

            Comment


              Originally posted by CyborgGT View Post
              It just sounded like you were considering getting S2 springs as a future upgrade for yourself (maybe I misunderstood when you said "valve kit" and assumed you meant the whole head setup), and S2 doesn't make springs specifically for the H22. They make B-series springs, and then instead of making H-specific springs, they made thicker spring bases that allow you to install their B-series springs on your H head.
              Ya, so it would be these?
              https://skunk2.com/engine/springs-re...e-springs.html

              & does anyone know if you can use after market springs (dual / stronger) with OEM valves / cams? I mean..... nothing would change technically

              Comment


                Originally posted by Rilas View Post
                Well now that the head is off. 2 more tests. Turn off the lights in the garage and shine a flash light down the ports. See if you can see any light leaking through into the combustion chamber. Lay the head up on the studs on one side to do this. Another test again while the head is up on it's side is spray some carb/intake/brake cleaner down into the ports and see if it leaks out of the valves.

                The intakes could be ever so slightly bent and leaking back pressure out and filling the catch can.
                Leaking intake valves at the seat would just flow back into the intake, not help pressurize the crankcase. Leakage past the valve seals does end up in the crankcase.
                90 LX 4dr 5 spd 395,000 - MRT: http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=201450
                07 Element EX AWD 203,000 - MRT: http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=210623
                07 Element EX AWD AT (2) 98,000 - MRT: www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=211920
                08 Element LX FWD AT 225,000 - MRT: fleetw00d : 2008 Honda Element LX - CB7Tuner Forums
                LOTS of CB7 parts - ENTIRE COLLECTION - FREE
                Come and get it. http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=192583

                Comment


                  ^ Yeah, I'd figure out the problem before throwing money at it. But 'springs and retainers' is a common upgrade even if you're not upgrading cams or valves. Stronger springs make it less likely that your valves will float, and a lot of people end up revving higher when their engine is tuned. Looking through S2's website, in the time since I collected my parts they've apparently come out with H-specific "Alpha" springs, which don't need the adapter bases and aren't as aggressive, if you don't have big cams installed. The Pro springs you linked, from reading the description, might be too much for stock cams and cause excessive wear. Me not being knowledgeable on turbocharging, though, I don't know if turbo/cylinder pressure amounts to the same thing as cam lift in terms of valve spring abuse for Pros to be necessary.

                  Comment


                    So what springs would I need to buy to work with these? I'm game though, as I bought a h22 head off a guy. Got some new OEM valve seals. Going to see if I can start learning this....












                    Comment


                      The two most important parts about upgrading springs/retainers, aside from using quality materials to start with of course, seems to be 1) the angles machined into the retainer and valve lock you're using. The outside of the lock needs to be the same as the angle on the retainer's inner hole so they fit together correctly and don't risk popping off and dropping a valve. And then 2) look at a spring's seat pressure and what your cam calls for; stock cams aren't going to need a super stiff spring. For whatever it's worth, I know you'll find good and bad about every brand under the sun, but my machinist (specializes in heads, does a lot of Honda and Subaru) kept mentioning to me that he really doesn't like Brian Crower.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by CyborgGT View Post
                        .......stock cams aren't going to need a super stiff spring.
                        Ya, i'm staying away from Brian. And good point, is there even a point in me replacing anything besides the valve seals here. Just replace the valve seals and put the engine back together and see if that fixes my problem. Can't see the harm in doing this assuming timing is correct when it goes back together. And I think I can do this without removing the head from the block. (make piston TDC to push back on the valve?)

                        Comment


                          I'd be leery of just using the piston, the valve only contacts on the piston on one side. I've heard of folks dropping a bunch of rope into the cylinder, then rotating to TDC to support more of the valve. The other option is to use an adapter to apply air pressure to the cylinder (I suppose at bottom dead center - if you do it at TDC, you run the risk of the crank spinning a half turn). Any time I've changed valve seals, I've had the head off the engine.
                          Last edited by Fleetw00d; 10-17-2020, 10:50 PM.
                          90 LX 4dr 5 spd 395,000 - MRT: http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=201450
                          07 Element EX AWD 203,000 - MRT: http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=210623
                          07 Element EX AWD AT (2) 98,000 - MRT: www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=211920
                          08 Element LX FWD AT 225,000 - MRT: fleetw00d : 2008 Honda Element LX - CB7Tuner Forums
                          LOTS of CB7 parts - ENTIRE COLLECTION - FREE
                          Come and get it. http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=192583

                          Comment


                            Unless you're revving higher than stock, upgrades probably aren't worth it.

                            If you don't have an air compressor to pressurize the cylinder through the spark plug hole, and you trust some rope to not get caught up in there, this guy came up with an interesting technique. Although I probably wouldn't use his zip-tie spring compressor method; there are cheap H22-specific spring compressors on eBay: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM3I5LwLaTg (*ed. - took too long with this post before fleetw00d got to it! Having the head off the engine will allow you to use gasoline while everything is still assembled to test that valve seat seal as well)

                            A problem I ran into when I was disassembling my head was that my old seals were really stuck on there. Valve seal pliers, I think that I got from Harbor Freight, wouldn't pull them off. Maybe I was doing it wrong, but I left it for the machinist at that point. In hindsight, maybe pliers that can't help but squeeze the seal tighter to the stem aren't very smart, when the seal needs to only be pulled straight up.
                            Last edited by CyborgGT; 10-17-2020, 11:08 PM.

                            Comment


                              I'll clarify, I did not change the seals myself. I provided the seals to the shop I had doing the valve job or whatever to the head - I don't usually pass up an opportunity to buy a new tool, but I never bought a valve seal pliers.
                              90 LX 4dr 5 spd 395,000 - MRT: http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=201450
                              07 Element EX AWD 203,000 - MRT: http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=210623
                              07 Element EX AWD AT (2) 98,000 - MRT: www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=211920
                              08 Element LX FWD AT 225,000 - MRT: fleetw00d : 2008 Honda Element LX - CB7Tuner Forums
                              LOTS of CB7 parts - ENTIRE COLLECTION - FREE
                              Come and get it. http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=192583

                              Comment


                                Ya, i appreciate the feedback folks. Agreed, head needs to come off. Not sure if I'm going to re-use the head studs or not. Not sure how much money I want to spend. I ripped into this spare head I have, valve seals came off no problem, twist and pull gets them off. Was my first time digging into a head and looks pretty simple. Cam gears are notched, gears have arrows, can't see putting cam in upside down or anything. But thoughts and questions arose .........

                                - Best to have a machine shop clean (a lot of cleaning) and re-assemble the head
                                - I see worn out spots on the cam covers (old age). I imagine a machine shop would polish this out
                                - They will also make sure valve seating is proper, along with all the tools (I don't have) to get the job done. They are also the original shop that built it the first time.
                                - I know the cams in mine look far worse than this spare head
                                - Supposedly the spare head was "rebuilt" by this shop who did my engine (I can't tell by looking at it. Vavle opening have large carbon buildups, spiderwebs in the exhaust holes. Need a shop cleaning anyways)
                                - what size head gasket to use? (I'm not 100% certain what mine is... cometic 87mm? .30?? )


                                The real $$$ answer here is to take them the engine and two heads. Tell them to take best of parts to make one OEM head with new valve seals. They'll clean it, shave it, clean journals, advise, etc. and charge me close to $500. (It will look super pretty too).

                                But thanks Covid - what may have to happen is I take it apart and replace the seals myself and put back together. Saving the serious work for another day. All of this costs money, in this case thousands.

                                Digging into spare head for fun...





                                (cat hair)





                                Took Sally for one last drive on the weekend. A 1 hour drive on the highway and back roads. Resulted in this much oil in the catch can. I use to get this much in one whole summer/year of driving.


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