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fleetw00d : 1990 Accord LX

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    #61
    Hope everything works out and it fires up and runs great for you!
    Turbo H23a3 build has begun
    01-01-2019

    Comment


      #62
      Originally posted by bjaccord View Post
      Hope everything works out and it fires up and runs great for you!
      Would have been nice. Back together enough to try it. Sounds normal while cranking, but no spark. Back at it tomorrow.

      Aug. 11, 2019: There was a spring missing between the distributor cap and coil tower, but I think this has been missing for a while - it looks like spark has been jumping this gap. Cut a spring to make sure there is contact; no change. Check engine light wasn't on, but jumping the connector showed a code 15; ignition output signal. I appear to have power to the appropriate wires in the distributor. More troubleshooting tomorrow.

      Other issues: Still sounds like little or no compression on one cylinder while cranking. The head was completely assembled by the shop, which means at least some valves were open - I tried to be careful not to set the head down on a flat surface (supported the ends). I hope I didn't bend one before putting it on.

      Both fan temperature sensor electrical connectors disintegrated while trying to reconnect them; found one of them with a broken wire. I was able to undo one connector shell from a spare harness and repair the connector for the sensor on the thermostat housing. I hate to cut the spare harness to solder the wires, are new connector sockets available from Honda?

      Aug 12, 2019: Discouraging. Thermostat ground is attached. Installed another ignition control module (from a spare distributor); no change. Because it was relatively easy, installed a spare ECM; no change. Ignition system worked fine before the timing belt broke; anyone else experience no spark after a timing belt failure incident? OEM manual talks about checks with the test harness (installed between body harness and ECM). Several times I almost coughed up the several hundred ($600+) for the test harness from Honda.
      Last edited by fleetw00d; 08-12-2019, 10:16 PM.
      90 LX 4dr 5 spd 389,000 - MRT: http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=201450
      07 Element EX AWD 193,000 - MRT: http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=210623
      07 Element EX AWD AT (2) 89,000 - MRT: www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=211920

      LOTS of CB7 parts - ENTIRE COLLECTION - FREE
      Come and get it. http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=192583 or watch for banner ad at upper right

      Comment


        #63
        Where did you find the test harness? I'd looked once or twice and thought it was no longer available from Honda.
        My '91 LX build. Bought September 2017. Sold June 2020.
        http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthre...r /> t=209871
        Current mileage: 399450 5/18/2020

        My '92 LX build. Bought Novemeber 2019. http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthre...91#post3293791
        Current mileage: 422679 11/21/19

        Comment


          #64
          So your getting no spark all together? Also have you done a valve adjustment yet? just to confirm your valves are closing completely when they need to I would check the valve lash.

          Are you testing for spark at the spark plug? If your not getting spark at the plug check the coil with a test light. Hold the test light a half an inch from the coil(cap off) and have someone try to start and you should see if arc.


          This is my video I go to every time I have a no start. He does a great job walking you down the chain.

          https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9K78XIhhjAQ


          I have had experience where ICMs have gone out for no reason or warning and I have gone through 2-3 until I had a good one. I always grab these from the junkyard.

          Hopefully that video helps Paul.
          But I wonder if the shock wave from the belt snapping and the piston to valve collision could have shocked the ignition system and maybe caused a component to fail. 8 valves is a good amount of bent valves.

          I don’t think you bent any valves putting the head on and the shop should have given you the head set back to TDC.
          Last edited by Grumpys93; 08-13-2019, 12:20 PM.
          ~Nick~
          FSAE (F Series Accord Enthusiasts) ..."A dying breed thats taking it to the next level" Lucky #13
          MR Thread:http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthre...ight=Grumpys93

          Comment


            #65
            Originally posted by Grumpys93 View Post
            I know your suppose to do it on a warm engine...
            I'm pretty sure you meant to say a cold engine, right?
            My '91 LX build. Bought September 2017. Sold June 2020.
            http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthre...r /> t=209871
            Current mileage: 399450 5/18/2020

            My '92 LX build. Bought Novemeber 2019. http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthre...91#post3293791
            Current mileage: 422679 11/21/19

            Comment


              #66
              Originally posted by wtfisafleek View Post
              I'm pretty sure you meant to say a cold engine, right?
              Yes cold engine. Brain fart. I edited my post, I thought that sounded weird. Thanks for the back up.
              ~Nick~
              FSAE (F Series Accord Enthusiasts) ..."A dying breed thats taking it to the next level" Lucky #13
              MR Thread:http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthre...ight=Grumpys93

              Comment


                #67
                Originally posted by Grumpys93 View Post
                So your getting no spark all together? Also have you done a valve adjustment yet? just to confirm your valves are closing completely when they need to I would check the valve lash.

                Are you testing for spark at the spark plug? If your not getting spark at the plug check the coil with a test light. Hold the test light a half an inch from the coil(cap off) and have someone try to start and you should see if arc.


                This is my video I go to every time I have a no start. He does a great job walking you down the chain.

                https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9K78XIhhjAQ


                I have had experience where ICMs have gone out for no reason or warning and I have gone through 2-3 until I had a good one. I always grab these from the junkyard.

                Hopefully that video helps Paul.
                But I wonder if the shock wave from the belt snapping and the piston to valve collision could have shocked the ignition system and maybe caused a component to fail. 8 valves is a good amount of bent valves.

                I don’t think you bent any valves putting the head on and the shop should have given you the head set back to TDC.
                Low compression on one (heck, any) cylinder won't affect whether the ignition system (I know you know that), so for the moment I'm concentrating on getting it to fire. The shop completely assembled the head, including setting valve lash - I haven't rechecked it. I forgot to take him new spark plug tube seals, so he reused the old ones. Against my own advice, I removed the rocker assembly without backing off the valve adjustments to install new seals; then reinstalled the rocker assembly using OEM torque specs.

                No spark whatsoever. Working by myself mostly, so I put my timing light on #1 spark plug wire and taped the trigger so I can watch from the driver seat. Not even random flashes and no indication of random firing from the engine. I do have fuel in the rail and smell fuel at the muffler exit after prolonged cranking.

                It is an internal coil distributor (new from Honda a few years ago); resistances through the coil check out according to the service manual. I'll figure out a way to check it for spark.

                Is there a way to check the sensors (TDC, etc.) within the distributor?

                More today:

                Grumpy, thanks for the video. The OEM manual doesn't say anything about checking for the alternating signal at the coil ground. I don't have a test light, but I pulled out my Heathkit oscilloscope and connected it - I have alternating voltage at the coil ground. Connecting a wire from the coil terminal to near the block, I was able get a spark there. I had destroyed the rotor trying to get it off, so I installed one from a 92-93 distributor (the part numbers are different - are they interchangeable?). The resistance through the rotor was sky high until I used a small wire brush to clean the center contact and get resistance down to about an ohm. Similar for the cap, cleaned up the carbon contact to make sure I had low resistance from the coil contact to the center button in the cap. With all that done, I still get no indication of spark at the plugs.

                20190813_191810 by Paul Kemme, on Flickr

                How big a gap should the spark be able to jump? With the wire about a quarter inch away from the block, there was no spark; had to get it a lot closer and the spark was more orange in color than blue. Weak coil? Resistance measurements between terminals were right where they were supposed to be according to the manual. I can get a coil from Honda, but not cap and rotor - any recommendations for those besides my local AutoZone?
                Last edited by fleetw00d; 04-09-2020, 10:39 PM.
                90 LX 4dr 5 spd 389,000 - MRT: http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=201450
                07 Element EX AWD 193,000 - MRT: http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=210623
                07 Element EX AWD AT (2) 89,000 - MRT: www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=211920

                LOTS of CB7 parts - ENTIRE COLLECTION - FREE
                Come and get it. http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=192583 or watch for banner ad at upper right

                Comment


                  #68
                  Spark is an electrical thing....

                  How's your electrical things?

                  Comment


                    #69
                    Originally posted by Raf99 View Post
                    Spark is an electrical thing....

                    How's your electrical things?
                    I understand- I'm working the electrical side first, then I'll worry about the compression. The fact that I get a proper alternating signal at the coil ground indicates that everything up to that point is working correctly. Even the spark out of the coil (although it looks weak), indicates that things are working up to that point - it just isn't getting to the plugs even though the resistance through the cap and rotor measures good (less than an ohm).
                    90 LX 4dr 5 spd 389,000 - MRT: http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=201450
                    07 Element EX AWD 193,000 - MRT: http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=210623
                    07 Element EX AWD AT (2) 89,000 - MRT: www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=211920

                    LOTS of CB7 parts - ENTIRE COLLECTION - FREE
                    Come and get it. http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=192583 or watch for banner ad at upper right

                    Comment


                      #70
                      Originally posted by fleetw00d View Post
                      I understand- I'm working the electrical side first, then I'll worry about the compression. The fact that I get a proper alternating signal at the coil ground indicates that everything up to that point is working correctly. Even the spark out of the coil (although it looks weak), indicates that things are working up to that point - it just isn't getting to the plugs even though the resistance through the cap and rotor measures good (less than an ohm).
                      resistance is one thing, not getting enough power through is another. It sounds like you are not getting enough power to the coil.

                      Comment


                        #71
                        Originally posted by Raf99 View Post
                        resistance is one thing, not getting enough power through is another. It sounds like you are not getting enough power to the coil.
                        New coil did the trick. Started right up, seems to run fine. Just a little oscillation at idle. I will probably still go back through and double check compression/leakage.

                        Aug. 17, 2019: Connector shells (gray instead of turquoise) arrived today; repaired the one to the high temperature switch at the head outlet.

                        20190817_185206 by Paul Kemme, on Flickr
                        Last edited by fleetw00d; 08-17-2019, 10:37 PM.
                        90 LX 4dr 5 spd 389,000 - MRT: http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=201450
                        07 Element EX AWD 193,000 - MRT: http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=210623
                        07 Element EX AWD AT (2) 89,000 - MRT: www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=211920

                        LOTS of CB7 parts - ENTIRE COLLECTION - FREE
                        Come and get it. http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=192583 or watch for banner ad at upper right

                        Comment


                          #72
                          Got lucky yesterday (sort of). Driving along and I heard clanging from under the car, pulled over quickly and as I was getting out of the car, a kid from the house I just passed came up to me with a bolt in his hand. Turns out it was the front torque mount bolt. I must have loosened it thinking to remove the nut to give me a little extra room to get the exhaust manifold heat shield off/on when working on the head. He was able to supply a 17 mm socket and ratchet and I was able to reinstall it right there (man, the parts around there are HOT).
                          90 LX 4dr 5 spd 389,000 - MRT: http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=201450
                          07 Element EX AWD 193,000 - MRT: http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=210623
                          07 Element EX AWD AT (2) 89,000 - MRT: www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=211920

                          LOTS of CB7 parts - ENTIRE COLLECTION - FREE
                          Come and get it. http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=192583 or watch for banner ad at upper right

                          Comment


                            #73
                            An odd series of events that almost never ends that easily.
                            My Members' Ride Thread - It's a marathon build, not a sprint. But keep me honest on the update frequency!

                            Comment


                              #74
                              That’s awesome the kid helped you out. My luck, the kid would have kept the bolt or just not cared.
                              ~Nick~
                              FSAE (F Series Accord Enthusiasts) ..."A dying breed thats taking it to the next level" Lucky #13
                              MR Thread:http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthre...ight=Grumpys93

                              Comment


                                #75
                                Both my fans were getting noisy; the radiator fan probably has 1/4 inch of play. Replaced both. Finally got to install one of the AC fans I had powder coated.

                                20191010_194012 by Paul Kemme, on Flickr

                                20191010_194003 by Paul Kemme, on Flickr
                                Last edited by fleetw00d; 10-10-2019, 10:38 PM.
                                90 LX 4dr 5 spd 389,000 - MRT: http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=201450
                                07 Element EX AWD 193,000 - MRT: http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=210623
                                07 Element EX AWD AT (2) 89,000 - MRT: www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=211920

                                LOTS of CB7 parts - ENTIRE COLLECTION - FREE
                                Come and get it. http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=192583 or watch for banner ad at upper right

                                Comment

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