Tnwagn : 1991 Accord LX

[qbodsyt]

Dude!

How have I missed your car before now? It's looking terrific! I love how you've kept it looking low key.....you could almost imagine the car came from the factory that way.....if only!

My wagon is in good shape and the suspension seems decent still (about 135k miles on it) but I notice it rides rougher than my previous sedans have. Do you figure it's due to the extra weight of the wag?

I'm considering shock-spring/coilover options and I'd love to hear how you feel about the F&F's with the passage of time. I'd really like your thoughts on ride quality, which I think most people on the forum neglect to talk about the most when reviewing setups. I have passengers a lot and I do a lot of long drives so I don't want a super stiff setup. More of a BMW luxury type of sporty

Sorry to hog on your MR, but your wagon is an inspiration to me to keep trying with mine.

[Tnwagn]

Haha, don't worry about hogging my MR thread man.

First off, thanks for the comments. Keeping it looking fresh while not going wild is the way to go with the wagon. Get too crazy with stuff and it just looks goofy in my opinion.

As to your question about ride quality of your stock wagon, there are a number of things that could affect it. First off, if you purchased this car used (which I'm pretty sure you did), it's hard to know exactly how and where the previous owner drove it. Tough driving conditions (be them from a hard driver or bad roads) can really wear down a car's suspension quickly. The extra weight of the wagon doesn't make too big a difference when it comes to stock vs stock with the Sedan/coupe. The wagon uses different dampeners in the back from factory (if I'm remembering correctly) so the exta weight is negated.

Now, about my Type II's. Gah, where to begin. I guess I'll just start from the beginning and go chronologically. When I first installed them, I thought they rode better than any car in the world. On the softest setting it felt only slightly firmer than stock and at the stiffest setting it rode like the car was on rails. Mind you, this was with the coilovers near the top of the threading (not so much drop). The Type II's are slightly shorter than the stock shock-spring assembly at the top of the adjustment range. I drove like for a while and was really impressed with the drivability.

Then I slammed the car to the ground, as low as it could possibly go. Mind you, I replaced the front balljoints with adjustable ones and got adjustable rear UCA's so I could correct the camber. Anyway, despite what others will tell you about riding slammed, it rode like shit. I scrapped everywhere I went, the front tires rubbed like crazy, the front UCA's were banging the inner fender like there was no tomorrow, and the rear UCA's where banging against the rear knuckle. No matter where I put the dampening adjustment, the car still wasn't very smooth. In order to cut down on bottoming out, I kept it on the stiffest setting for a while. It helped, but the ride was unbearably stiff (at least in my opinion).

Eventually, I decided that riding slammed wasn't all it was cracked up to be. I rose the car up around an inch or two all around. I found I was happiest at this level. The car looked good and the ride was still decent. During the time I had the car like this, I was simply driving to and from summer classes. Most of that driving was on a smooth stretch of interstate between my house and the University.

Then I moved down to Birmingham. Now, up till this point, I had noticed virtually no difference in the ride from the time I installed the coilovers till when I moved. However, living in Birmingham absolutely dominated my car's suspension like a little school boy bitch. Let me explain...

While I lived in Birmingham, I had to drive to and from work. Most of that was, again, interstate driving. However, this was no smooth stretch of road. Oh no, this was perhaps the worst stretch of interstate in the entire world. Potholes galore, uneven lanes, and VERY VERY hard roads. When I say hard roads, I'm talking about roads that have terrible composition which eat your tires alive and are rough even in the nicest of cruisers. Then, there was the stretch of road from the interstate to work. Every day I had to drive over 4 sets of railroad tracks all in a 100 yard stretch. They were horrible kept up, and there was absolutely no way to avoid them.

Alright, so now you see the kind of conditions I had to deal with. Slowly, from August till December, I felt my car's suspension crumble beneath me. Unfortunately, there was nothing I could do but grit my teeth and keep on trucking. All other issues aside, the coilovers feel as if they are already worn from that simple 5 month period. I'm certain that if I hadn't been driving on those horrible roads, then they would still feel just the same as the day I installed them. The driver's side front dust boot for the coilovers has ripped and part of it is stuck in between the windings of the coils.

Now I'm back in Knoxville driving on the semi-decent roads that I had been for so long. The ride is much better, but that's mainly due to the road conditions. I can still feel quite a difference from before I had moved to Birmingham. It's not amazing, but it's not horrible. I have a feeling that most of the play in the suspension is due to the fact that all my bushings are still stock. Once I replace them I'll really be able to tell if driving on the horrible roads has had any lasting impressions on the other parts I have already installed. My guess is that it has, but that the change will not be enough to say that the product wears out quickly.

So, if you don't slam your car, drive on decent roads, and keep it on the softer side of the dampening the Type II's are just fine. I wouldn't call it a BMW type of ride though. To be honest, I'm not sure what kind of setup would give such a smooth ride. I'd recommend you make a thread in the Suspension sub-forum and ask about what others would recommend. I bough my setup because of the performance it would afford me, not for the ride quality.

[Tnwagn]

HOLY SHIT

That was a really long post

[qbodsyt]

HOLY SHIT

That was a really long post

Yes, but almost exactly what I was looking for, thanks so much for the in depth analysis.

The problem with the suspension forum is even when you ask specifically about ride quality people respond with their first priorities which seem to be:

70% - how mad, gangsta cool it is slammed to the pavement

30% - how it can now outhandle an NSX

I know it might not be realistic to expect like a brand new BMW type of ride, but I think with reasonable expectations you might be able to at least achieve a late 90's M3, lol. I think you just have to be prepared to spend enough and not shy away from any element that has to be changed.

Anyhow, thanks again and I really have to bookmark your MR, I completely agree with your mindset, you can't overdo these cars, keep it lowkey and elegant. Keep it up and keep an eye on mine, I'm trying to make something happen.

[Tnwagn]

M3, huh? I guess so. Stock M3 vs a heavily modified CB could be a decent race in terms of handling.

Just remember, when it comes to suspension there are really only three main points

1) Slammed
2) Good Handling
3) Cheap

You can only get two out of the three with any given setup.

[Tnwagn]

As I'm too lazy to actually get out and work on my car (which I have plenty of parts sitting around for) I'll just post up another picture and pretend like it's an actual update

[slick]

As I'm too lazy to actually get out and work on my car (which I have plenty of parts sitting around for) I'll just post up another picture and pretend like it's an actual update

Not cool.

Did you ever start the retrofit?

[Tnwagn]

Not cool.

Did you ever start the retrofit?

Yeah, I have all the parts and the headlights are open I just need to paint, hack up, and put everything back together.

[slick]

Yeah, I have all the parts and the headlights are open I just need to paint, hack up, and put everything back together.

Well get on it man. Send them to me and ill do it for you

[Tnwagn]

Well get on it man. Send them to me and ill do it for you

Haha, I'm working my way to them. My room was so full of junk I'm having to clean up everything before I can even get to the parts. Sad, but it's the truth. I should have all the other junk cleaned up by Wednesday then I can start on the retrofit.

Also, a few people along the way have asked me if I've done anything under the hood. I think this picture more than speaks for itself

[90Cb7sleeper]

Haha, I'm working my way to them. My room was so full of junk I'm having to clean up everything before I can even get to the parts. Sad, but it's the truth. I should have all the other junk cleaned up by Wednesday then I can start on the retrofit.

Also, a few people along the way have asked me if I've done anything under the hood. I think this picture more than speaks for itself

I can fix that picture.

[Tnwagn]

I can fix that picture.

So can I, just close the hood

Hahaha, if only I had that kind of money to throw around man.

I've been thinking about what I want to do engine wise (in like 2 or 3 years when I have time and money saved up). I was all hype about J-series but now it just looks like too much work. K is interesting but it's almost equally complicated.

Boost now has my eye as it's a really well documented subject on the F-series engines and I've seen really impressive numbers. Still, I wouldn't want to do it on the motor sitting in my car right now. It's be serviced and has never had any problems, however I don't think I could justify a really nice build on an engine that's been around this long. It PROBABLY could hold up alright if refreshed, but it seems like a bandaid instead of a solution. I've been looking on Bisi's website and his built motors looks pretty nice. Only thing questionable is the price (~6k for a built longblock with customer supplied rods and pistons). Then again, I've never really researched it so I don't have anything to compare to.

Of course, that all depends on what's going on in my world in the next few years

There's no need to build the motor on this car while it's my daily. I can't afford to have it down for long at any time, nor do I really have the desire. I'm fine with it the way it is. However, when I do get another car I'm driving every day, this car is DEFINITELY going to go under the knife and see some crazy shit.

-P.S. I talk way to much

[90Cb7sleeper]

You could always go Euro-R w/ the Euro LSD. I want to boost, just not my car. I'll probably get an EK to do that. I would really like to do a boosted F in an EK to piss everyone off. lol

[Tnwagn]

Haha, an EK with a boosted F would be tragic, yet awesome.

I don't know, I've been looking a little more and a rebuild of the current motor with Bisimoto parts and a small amount of boost sounds like it would meek my wants and keep the price down. Since I want an engine that's unmolested and is really cleaned up inside and out I don't want to fork out a bunch for an engine I'd rebuild anyway. At least I know that what I have now has been treated great and it's free.

[Tnwagn]

Different day, same shit