Grumpys93 : 1993 Accord LX

[Raf99]

Ya, is the H22 functional? Maybe just use it for a backup engine in-case anything happens to the F-series. After all, adding a turbo = break stuff faster.

[Grumpys93]

Yep fully functional. Well, the only thing I’m missing to make it functional is a header. But that can be easily obtained. It is a back up, however I do want to build it n/a. But I’m not going to tear it apart until I have all the items to build it up.

[Straight Success]

I like that plan. I'll be patiently waiting for the log books.

[Mike1357]

Mike:MIKE! It’s awesome to hear from you dude! You still in ATL? You bring up a good point on always using the rims.

I'm actually down in Florida still. And the wheels is just my personal experience. When I found my set, I just knew I had to have them and I loved looking at them on the car. A good set of wheels just completely transforms any car.

[Straight Success]

Seat updates???

[Grumpys93]

The car recently developed a knock. I decided to pull the pan and found some metal shavings, but nothing too alarming. I then decided to jiggle the rods to see maybe something was loose and I found #3 was loose. So I replaced all rod bearings while I was down there. None looked like they had spun or were near being spun. But I figured this was my issue. Put everything back together, and started her up. The noise was still there. At this time I had to move the car, I start to put my foot on the clutch and the noise goes away. I mean just enough to take the slack out of the pedal prior to engaging the clutch. I then recalled that I was getting a high pitch noise whenever I was driving around and it would go away when I would put very slight pressure on the pedal. So my thoughts are throw out bearing is on its last legs.
The only other thing I can think of is thrust washers, at least talking with Will. I recall Eric the car guy mentioning a way to determine if it’s the thrust washers, is having a friend watch the crank pulley and if it shifts when you push in the clutch, your washers are going out. So I’m going to put my camera under the crank pulley and see if it moves.

What’s everyone else’s thoughts?

[CyborgGT]

As soon as you said the knock went away with any amount of clutch pressure, my immediate thought was thrust washers, too. If there's lateral play in the crank, and obviously it should be well lubricated, I wouldn't think it'd take much pressure to shift it aside.

[SSMAccord]

Hmmmm…I have not tackled an issue like this before. But your hypothesis seems sound, it could be the thrust washers being worn. You did find the metallic shavings in the oil so something is clearly being affected, would a lack of lubrication cause the thrust washers to be susceptible to this type of wear? If so, do you need additional lubrication or oil pressure to prevent this from happening in the future?

[Grumpys93]

So I haven’t taken a camera under the crank yet. But to answer your question. I eliminated the balance shafts so that should have helped with oil pressure. I did notice that these bearings did not have holes in them for the oil orifices on the rods. But my aftermarket rods also don’t have oil orifices in them. So maybe that may have starved the washers. I’m not sure. The bearings I put in have the holes in them but without the rods having holes not sure how much that will help.

I never ran it low on oil ( as I always checked it before I went for a drive). The only thing I can think of is possibly in higher rpm when I take it to 7500 rpm, though I’ve never saw a major drop in the oil pressure on my gauge.

I will get report back once I place my camera. Is it possible to change the thrust washers without removing the crank?

[Raf99]

Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't the oil get into the bearings via the holes in them? (squirters squirt oil up into the piston walls and it falls back down on to the bearings & enters the holes to prevent wear)

[Grumpys93]

Raf, that is my understanding as well. Not sure why bisi didn’t incorporate them into his rods.

Update: So took a video of the crank and it didn’t budge at all. Did a compression test and it was 205 across the board with a cold motor WOT. I did notice that the flywheel moves a hair when I push the clutch in when I was peaking through the timing hole. Not sure if this is normal or not.

If anyone could check theirs and let me know that would be awesome.

I bought thrust washers and I’m going to go ahead and install them just for peace of mind. Just curious if anyone has any other thoughts before I rip the trans out.

[SSMAccord]

Hmmm…the flywheel in theory is a rigid part that is rigidly mounted to the crank. That should mean it wouldn’t move, but perhaps the flywheel has some flex under load from the pressure plate.

I will try to take a look, but I’m not near my car for the time being. Someone will probably chime in before then though.

[Rilas]

The oil pump, pumps oil into the crankshaft itself. Honda machined passages all throughout the crank to carry oil from the snout to the end. It then feeds oil to the rod bearings via the holes in the crank. These fill the rod bearings as the crank is spinning. Each time the rod bearing hole aligns with the crank it gets an additional shot of oil up the rod itself that oils the wrist pin. Then the excess oil is just draining off of the crank and under the pistons. The squirters are there to lubricate the walls, but also cool the pistons. Unoiled pistons will run quite a bit hotter than oiled pistons. The oil is much much cooler than the combustion happening at the top of the piston. I think this is one of the main reasons an H22 engine handles boost better than the F series engines. Or they can run tighter clearances on the pistons and rings due to the extra cooling.

Think of how you can throw a Jackson Racing supercharger on a stock H22 engine and they will last over 50k+ miles or many many more. We throw a little turbo on a F22 engine stock and the ring land ends touch and the engine dies. More expansion due to heat in the pistons and rings.

Back on the real topic here. I truely do think it's the thrust washers. Any amount of wear will cause a noise. The slight pressure of the clutch being depressed is shifting the crank over and off of the thrust washer, eliminating the noise. A bad throw out bearing will make no noise while the clutch is disengaged due to it's resting away from the pressure plate not spinning. Once you depress the clutch the throw out bearing moves toward the pressure plate, eventually making contact and having to spin the bearing. I had one that was so bad it was like 10 people standing there screaming at you, but only when the clutch was depressed, once let out, you would never know the throwout bearing was shot.

[Grumpys93]

Ok so next update. Threw new thrust washers in and knock is still there. Again it goes away once I put the clutch it. It sounds like it near the trans side. But kind of hard to tell. Any other ideas?

[Rilas]

Sadly sounds like it's time to yank the trans then. Unless you can find anything via the inspection plate.