Bisi's motor built for the Castrol Syntec Top Shop Challenge. 360whp
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Myself, and the other mods have been very nice and lenient with the rules. We have been deleting threads, and giving out warnings. Some members didn't get the clue and re-posted over and over... Now ANY member buying or selling in this section will be banned... No IF's AND's or BUT's.
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These are the rules. Read them. Live by them.
1) Absolutely NO flaming! "Flaming" is an outright attack on a member. ALL questions are encouraged to be asked here, no matter how basic. Members with over 30 posts will be subject to a ONE WEEK ban if caught flaming in this forum (and yes, moderators can read deleted posts). Members with under 30 posts will be subject to a ONE DAY ban.
2) Use appropriate language. Racial or sexual slurs will not be tolerated. A ban will be issued at the discretion of the cb7tuner.com staff.
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4) Temporarily banned members will be PERMANTLY banned if they are found posting on another account.
The rules can and will be added to. Any updates will be marked in the title.
The rules for the overall forum can be found here:
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F22A N/A Build
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Originally posted by Tnwagn View PostI would recommend porting at least the exhaust side of the head if you are going to the level with all the other headwork. The Megan header is going to be a huge bottleneck, as will your entire exhaust system most likely.
It will be expensive, you have to know that going in from day 1. Before you start buying parts you should have your entire build planned out, otherwise you will fall in the trap that deev mentions about buy stuff over and over.
http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/forumdisplay.php?f=61
There are plenty of F22A N/A builds in the NA section. I'd suggest finding a setup that is putting out numbers that you are interested in achieving, see what work they've done, and base your build on their findings.
OP I am not trying to discourage just making sure that people understand that bisi's f's are a lot more than just forged pistons and rods with a balanced bottom end. His entire bottom end is custom engineered and built buy him to rev to like 13000rpms. Again not trying to discourage just making sure you know.
OP have you fully considered an H swap? You start with a 200 horsepower 159 lbs/ft of torque with good mileage and street manners for cruising. No reason with some tasteful modifications that you couldn't turn that into a 250 horsepower n/a. Just a thought. If you are going to turbo it then I would just stay stick with your f. It is a solid, robust engine, it's only issue is it's ginormous stroke which makes high power n/a's a little more difficult than an h. Again not trying to discourage, if that is what you want go get er done, Just making sure you understand all your options and the pros and cons.
And don't bother with itb's unless your are planning pretty much a straight race car.
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1. I dont want to hear "get a Bisi header, everything else is a waste of time." Not everyone can afford one, a basic 4-2-1 header is a good start.
2. I would start with an aftermarket cam. I have had good results with my Bullfrog/Gude cam. Its comparable to a Bisi stg 2, but given the choice again, I would get the Bisi. I picked up my cam because a local was offering a good deal on the cam.
3. Upgrade to a H23 intake manifold to improve your airflow.
Your other bolt-on mods you listed is a great start, the 2 mods I listed are terrific bolt-ons that are relativity inexpensive, and will give you a great boost in power.
My mods are:
H23 Intake manifold - $50
Used DC Sports header - $70
Gude Cam - $100
2.5" Exhaust - $160
K+N Filter - $35
With these mods I should be at around 155 - 170 whp, once tuned. I have to dnyo the setup to find out for sure, but others with similar mods are putting down this amount of power, for no where near the amount of cash for a H22 swap.
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Originally posted by Accrdwgnguy View Post1. I dont want to hear "get a Bisi header, everything else is a waste of time." Not everyone can afford one, a basic 4-2-1 header is a good start.
Honestly, the Bisimoto header really is the only viable performance option for us. Other headers are generic designs, very similar to the stock manifolds, and have very restrictive collectors. Kamikaze makes a header that is fairly cheap in comparison to the Bisimoto piece, but the quality is absolute garbage. It does offer decent gains compared to any other non-bisi header, however.
ESP could probably be convinced to make F22A headers, if enough interest were shown. Their H22 header makes decent power, and sells for under $500. I bet they could do the same for the F22A. It wouldn't make Bisimoto numbers, but it'd be likely to offer half the power for half the price.
Originally posted by Chase d cb7 View PostFar out man that is wicked, not too crazy for the top mount but I dont know what the difference is performance wise. I agree, not a daily. Wouldn't even be considered a sleeper to me, sucker would scream.
That is the f22b?
.peace.
And that is an F22A... well, mostly.
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If you can do some welding, you can open up the collector of any "cheap" header.
I just tired of seeing every person that asks about their F22A, being told that the $1200 header is their only option. Kinda discouraging if you are just getting into the hobby, plus if you are buying one of these cars you may not have those kind of funds. A 4-2-1 header is definitely an upgrade over a stock A1 manifold.
Also all my mods are DD friendly, I have stock drive ability for a 60 mile round trip commute everyday, and it certainly gets rowdy when I get into the go pedal.
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i dont see it as dicouraging. i see it as telling someone that they could spend their money elsewhere to get more of a gain. they could spend 120 on a megan header or 120 on a delta cam regrind. which would be the better choice? id take the cam
if you can weld you can open up the collector but most quality collectors are going to run about 120 themselves. check prices on burns stainless for 2.5". 120 for a cheap header, 120 for a bigger collector, and if they cant weld then they have to pay for a welder. if esp makes a header for the f22 and keeps it around 400 or so then youd be spending about the same money. right now bisimoto is just the only one to offer a real header. everything else is just a low quality knockoff of the dc sports design. even the dc header offers little power. the price is all in the carb sticker
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Originally posted by deevergote View PostITBs are a terrible idea for a daily driver. Usually, they are run with no filter element as well... which would suck in dirt and debris very easily, destroying the motor.
I'm subbing here cuz it's givin me a lot of ideas for my f22a. more like dreams that can only be realized through saving or getting a better job once I get the blue bird on the road.
As far as opening ports, how much? If you're going to open the ports and open up the header you'd need an idea what dimensions you want, unless you're just trying to imitate the Bisi(copy/paste). As far as welding, if you can do it urself sweet, if not how much would it cost to have done in comparison. I see 240 for header and collector. Would it really come close to 1200 after paying a welder? That seems a little insane to me.
maybe the esp option, if it existed, would come close. but if It's really going to cost that much to pay a welder, I need to take a welding course! that & an auto body course. I wanna be able to fabricate & paint everything myself, plus make my living working on cars. One of my dreams. Then work towards "ASE everything." I'd be like the young Yeshua Ha-Mashiach if he was a mechanic/welder/painter/machinist instead of a carpenter.
F22A makes me !Last edited by blu35p4rr0w; 02-03-2011, 01:25 AM.
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Originally posted by Sabes View PostWhy would you port any ports? The exhaust ports are already massive and to add on to that, honda engineers did an amazing job already in designing their heads to operate within the rev limit that they set. A mild cam will carry the powerband right to redline nicely. Porting the head does to things, either wrecks it completely or moves your powerband higher than intended on an f.
OP I am not trying to discourage just making sure that people understand that bisi's f's are a lot more than just forged pistons and rods with a balanced bottom end. His entire bottom end is custom engineered and built buy him to rev to like 13000rpms. Again not trying to discourage just making sure you know.
OP have you fully considered an H swap? You start with a 200 horsepower 159 lbs/ft of torque with good mileage and street manners for cruising. No reason with some tasteful modifications that you couldn't turn that into a 250 horsepower n/a. Just a thought. If you are going to turbo it then I would just stay stick with your f. It is a solid, robust engine, it's only issue is it's ginormous stroke which makes high power n/a's a little more difficult than an h. Again not trying to discourage, if that is what you want go get er done, Just making sure you understand all your options and the pros and cons.
And don't bother with itb's unless your are planning pretty much a straight race car.
Comment
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Originally posted by Accrdwgnguy View Post1. I dont want to hear "get a Bisi header, everything else is a waste of time." Not everyone can afford one, a basic 4-2-1 header is a good start.
2. I would start with an aftermarket cam. I have had good results with my Bullfrog/Gude cam. Its comparable to a Bisi stg 2, but given the choice again, I would get the Bisi. I picked up my cam because a local was offering a good deal on the cam.
3. Upgrade to a H23 intake manifold to improve your airflow.
Your other bolt-on mods you listed is a great start, the 2 mods I listed are terrific bolt-ons that are relativity inexpensive, and will give you a great boost in power.
My mods are:
H23 Intake manifold - $50
Used DC Sports header - $70
Gude Cam - $100
2.5" Exhaust - $160
K+N Filter - $35
With these mods I should be at around 155 - 170 whp, once tuned. I have to dnyo the setup to find out for sure, but others with similar mods are putting down this amount of power, for no where near the amount of cash for a H22 swap.
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Originally posted by blu35p4rr0w View PostThat may be true... but I need a new set of underwear after seeing the Bisi F22 with ITBs....
I'm subbing here cuz it's givin me a lot of ideas for my f22a. more like dreams that can only be realized through saving or getting a better job once I get the blue bird on the road.
As far as opening ports, how much? If you're going to open the ports and open up the header you'd need an idea what dimensions you want, unless you're just trying to imitate the Bisi(copy/paste). As far as welding, if you can do it urself sweet, if not how much would it cost to have done in comparison. I see 240 for header and collector. Would it really come close to 1200 after paying a welder? That seems a little insane to me.
maybe the esp option, if it existed, would come close. but if It's really going to cost that much to pay a welder, I need to take a welding course! that & an auto body course. I wanna be able to fabricate & paint everything myself, plus make my living working on cars. One of my dreams. Then work towards "ASE everything." I'd be like the young Yeshua Ha-Mashiach if he was a mechanic/welder/painter/machinist instead of a carpenter.
F22A makes me !
I personally paid $100 to have my traction bar tig-welded in place. It took the guy about an hour to do. That was merely welding that one part to my car... not attempting to fabricate a leak-free modified header. I could easily see a talented welder asking for $200. It is, however, impossible to say... because I cannot speak for all the professional welders out there. There might be someone that would do it well, and do it for a case of their favorite beer. Still, it seems like an awful lot of money and effort to put into what is still an inferior product.
As for the exhaust ports, unless you know exactly what you're doing, you're better off going to an experienced head porter. Someone that has worked on the F22A, and tell him what you want. With his experience, and hopefully the assistance of a flow bench, he can modify the head according to your needs.
Please tell me where you can cut and paste Bisi's exact head porting specs...
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Originally posted by capo_status View PostMy plan is to go with the bisi cam first out of all the work I want to do. As for H23 intake manifold, my plan is to get the bisi intake manifold which is better than the H23 manifold.
Originally posted by deevergote View PostAs for the exhaust ports, unless you know exactly what you're doing, you're better off going to an experienced head porter. Someone that has worked on the F22A, and tell him what you want. With his experience, and hopefully the assistance of a flow bench, he can modify the head according to your needs.
Please tell me where you can cut and paste Bisi's exact head porting specs...2013 Ice Cream Cruise!
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