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Old 06-17-2018, 09:21 AM   #21
CyborgGT
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but its not only that lol. look at fbo videos on youtube. those shits run like mid 15 stock. nah fam.
But in the same post you were ragging on the Fiesta for FBO power numbers, you gave your theoretical Focus a turbo upgrade. What kind of comparison is that? The off the shelf bolt-on 'big turbo' kits for the Fiesta put the whp in the 300s. You've got a supercharger sticking out of the hood of one of your cars, and a frankly pointless K-swap in another. That says you'd be willing to piece together your own turbo setup to make even more power regardless of the chassis.
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Old 06-17-2018, 09:43 AM   #22
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But in the same post you were ragging on the Fiesta for FBO power numbers, you gave your theoretical Focus a turbo upgrade. What kind of comparison is that? The off the shelf bolt-on 'big turbo' kits for the Fiesta put the whp in the 300s. You've got a supercharger sticking out of the hood of one of your cars, and a frankly pointless K-swap in another. That says you'd be willing to piece together your own turbo setup to make even more power regardless of the chassis.
coming from a guy that owns a base rsx im not gonna argue anymore. it seems you like slow shit so im done. the fiesta is a waste of money and if you drove both back to back youll see just how much more room and power the focus has. the fiesta needs a turbo upgrade. not the focus. a buddy had a fbo fiesta and it put down like 215/220whp and 300 wtq. it also peaked like 15psi or something at 3-4k rpm and by redline was back down to 9-10 LOL.

the focus is a MUCH better choice every way possible. i rest my case. the new body civic si is the best choice out of all if you want a new car that can haul ass and get 40mpg.

to OP: get whatever you want. the focus is a good car, i just couldnt bring myself to buy one. i dont really like hatches that much and i dont do 4 doors lol. other that than, it was super tempting.
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Old 06-17-2018, 07:44 PM   #23
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I was just trying to understand why you went so far as to call the Fiesta a "joke," when the car got pretty unanimously excellent reviews, and then make unfair comparisons. But if all you care about is drag racing braggadocio in a bolt-on kit, it makes sense. So by all means, oranges to grapefruits. However (since you "lol'd" at a 15 second 1/4), note that stock vs stock, there's only about a .3 sec difference in their quarter miles. "Lol"

And yes, having immediate access to real roads has made me more interested in handling than going fast in a straight line, so I wasn't fussed about looking for a car with a whole 40 more bhp and 1 more lb-ft, all at the top end where I don't need it.
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Old 06-17-2018, 09:05 PM   #24
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The way I see it, the Fiesta is Ford’s answer to the Honda Fit. My 117hp Fit was a blast to drive, despite being slow as balls. Now, a Fit with 200hp would be a riot. It wouldn’t win any drag races against even modest true sports cars (aside from maybe the Miata and BRZ/86), but the overall experience is pretty sweet.

Not putting down anything else, or saying that the Focus or Civic wouldn’t possibly be better choices... but the Fiesta ST has a lot to offer.

And honestly, every car discussed in this conversation is slow compared to relatively inexpensive 400+hp Mustang/Camaro/Challenger options on the market. There is ALWAYS something faster.

And don’t forget, most of us were making “big plans” for a 200hp h22 or turbo f22 in a 2800lb cb7... which is basically what you get in a Fiesta ST.
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Old 06-17-2018, 10:13 PM   #25
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^ Those last couple points are why I don't understand people that argue in favor of power and quarter mile times on a Honda forum. Especially when it comes to bolt-on performance. If you specifically want a drag racer, get something with V8 displacement and RWD that can hook. You get a Honda (or something in this class) because you want something well-rounded at a usable power level. What exactly are you going to do on the street with more than 200hp when that's already enough to get way above the speed limit, and take you beyond the cornering limits of any DOT tire?
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Old 06-17-2018, 11:03 PM   #26
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Yeah I feel the Focus would be an excellent middle of the spectrum option. Itís quick and handles pretty well from what I gather. The styling isnít over the top, and it fits my needs & wants. I like hatchbacks, turbos, and 30mpg. It makes way more sense than an ft86. More room, faster, and better combined mpg. Only downside is that itís wrong wheel drive, but whatever.

I do appreciate what the Fiesta is, but the Focus just has a nicer ass. The race red and the orangeishyellow look really good too.

The Fiestas come in the ricer Green which I find kinda funny.
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Old 06-17-2018, 11:18 PM   #27
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What are your feelings towards the 350Z? Same as the 86 with its coupe impracticalities? One of the later HR models with low miles can be had in your budget. I'm even seeing Nismos at around 19-20k if you can afford to stretch it a bit.
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Old 06-18-2018, 08:55 AM   #28
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The obsession with HP in open diff FWD cars is a little lolzy....

I'm gonna come from left field and suggest a used GTI with the PP. Compared to the FoST, same power + LSD. Compared to the Civic, more power + understressed engine + LSD and non-retina searing looks. Crazy small but still roomy and very practical. Actually responds to bolt ons. More refined than pretty much anything suggested as well. Only downside, maybe a little *too* refined but that's easy to remedy. I think they also come with weak clutches stock.

Other idea is the WRX.

My main gripe with the FoST is that its ancient. I'd only look at used ones at this point. They will be the better value.
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Old 06-18-2018, 10:26 AM   #29
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I've owned a 2014 Focus ST since new. I'm at 70k miles now.

It has been a fantastic car with zero issues. My car is barely modified with only an aftermarket filter + Stratified 93/E30 tune.

I put down 260awhp and 340wtq on just a tune. The car is great fun and handles better than any car I've driven before.

It's still an open diff car with a mediocre torque vectoring systems that utilizes the brakes to mitigate torque steer and wheels spin. Ultimately, with this much torque, it should've come with an LSD from the factory.

The MK7 GTI is also an excellent car, but if you look at any used examples and review the Carfax, almost ALL of them have some sort of electrical or mechanical issue. Everytime I consider a GTI, I get scared away by spotty reliability. Consumer Reports considered it one of the worst used car buys.

The Focus ST, on the other hand, has a lower entry price, better seats, a better reliability record, and the MK3.5 (in my opinion) looks sharper with more usable storage space.

Unlike the GTI, the Focus ST has defeatable traction and stability control which is why you see the ST family so often at autocross and track events compared to the GTI.

If I had to do it all over again, I would've still purchased the ST. It's great value for money since you can get amazing deals on them and it's a really well designed car. Just don't expect too much from the stock turbo lol
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Old 06-18-2018, 10:29 AM   #30
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I was waiting for you to chime in! Iím not expecting huge power, just a good amount to make it fun to daily.

What transmission issues are there?

ALLDATA tsbís are mostly interior related. Everything else seems to be related to the data wire splice and the rear mount failing. The only engine tsb Iím seeing is for the water pump weep chamber getting stained from vapor.

Some harness rubbing for the power steering & battery harness as well.

Noted on the fiesta.

Edit: metra makes a dash kit for the Focus, so I looked into that due to the MFT being not so great. I figure a nice pioneer with a maestro data interface would be better suited. Itíll show everything through the radio screen that can be pulled from the on board diagnostics.
MFT is perfectly fine. It's a little laggy compared to an iPhone and most NEW infotainment systems, but it's comparable to Honda's system in the Civic and CRV. The Sync3 system is probably one of the best in the business, but it's purely touchscreen if you're ok with that.

The Focus ST is pretty stout and mostly fault free. It's a well built car that will easily survive an abusive 100k+ miles.
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Old 06-18-2018, 02:37 PM   #31
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I don't have any FiST/FoST experience, but I did test drive the new Si...I don't like it as an initial impression. It needs more personality.

It handles well! Scared my salesperson a bit lol.
It is relatively slow stock and feels like a turbocharged 4 (because it is...). I suppose if I drove angrily it would be a bit better. Plus, I'm used to naturally aspirated cars so it may be something I would have to grow into. It feels like a good highway car, keep it in 3rd gear and it zips. I may or may not be comparing it to a V6 Accord.

It is very refined, quiet, everything feels solid...I mean it's not virgin leather upholstered everything, but it's not 90's GM either.

I need to try a tuned one.
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Old 06-18-2018, 06:27 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by verothacamaro View Post
MFT is perfectly fine. It's a little laggy compared to an iPhone and most NEW infotainment systems, but it's comparable to Honda's system in the Civic and CRV. The Sync3 system is probably one of the best in the business, but it's purely touchscreen if you're ok with that.

The Focus ST is pretty stout and mostly fault free. It's a well built car that will easily survive an abusive 100k+ miles.
Thank you. I just found a grey 2016 with 26k at a Chrysler dealer for 16k. Iím going to try and get the wife to come look at it with me tomorrow or Wednesday
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Old 06-18-2018, 06:38 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by verothacamaro View Post
I've owned a 2014 Focus ST since new. I'm at 70k miles now.

It has been a fantastic car with zero issues. My car is barely modified with only an aftermarket filter + Stratified 93/E30 tune.

I put down 260awhp and 340wtq on just a tune. The car is great fun and handles better than any car I've driven before.

It's still an open diff car with a mediocre torque vectoring systems that utilizes the brakes to mitigate torque steer and wheels spin. Ultimately, with this much torque, it should've come with an LSD from the factory.

The MK7 GTI is also an excellent car, but if you look at any used examples and review the Carfax, almost ALL of them have some sort of electrical or mechanical issue. Everytime I consider a GTI, I get scared away by spotty reliability. Consumer Reports considered it one of the worst used car buys.

The Focus ST, on the other hand, has a lower entry price, better seats, a better reliability record, and the MK3.5 (in my opinion) looks sharper with more usable storage space.

Unlike the GTI, the Focus ST has defeatable traction and stability control which is why you see the ST family so often at autocross and track events compared to the GTI.

If I had to do it all over again, I would've still purchased the ST. It's great value for money since you can get amazing deals on them and it's a really well designed car. Just don't expect too much from the stock turbo lol

I will never own another VW newer than 1985 ever again. And even then, itíll ONLY be a Scirocco or Rabbit truck.

The VWís that come into work are all the same type of weird electrical work or cooling system/engine failure shit.

Same goes for GM stuff. Had a V6 CTS come in cause the AC controls stopped working. Cause was an aftermarket radio. Had to slave the aftermarket radio to the stock one. Then the AC controls worked, but the blower had a mind of its own, and the display flickered. Had to make a whole new piggy back harness cause it was a data system looped from the AC to the radio.

Married that fucking car for a week.. What Iím trying to is that Iím glad itís a stout car with not too many weird issues. Cause forget that bullshit.
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Old 06-19-2018, 12:35 AM   #34
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its mostly clutch issues. every now and then youll see some serious damage to the trans. it usually varies too. if you want a fun daily, itll be cool. but you have to spend a good bit on a new one to get recaros,carbon fiber shit inside. i wouldnt have that carbon fiber though. it looks super cheesy to me lol. the st3 trim is like high 20's on the sticker. plus, resale is pretty terrible for those if you buy them new. ive seen used st3 for under 20k already with low miles lol. the MFT isnt a bad system when it works. but the module that runs it is soooooo finicky and if it goes out and the screen is black its like 1k to replace it when its out of warranty.




FBO is like 205whp. that 1.6 is nothing to write home about. its a nimble little car, but it has NO ass and cant do much with it. if someone swapped the 1.6 for a 2.0, thats a different story. talk about a rocket.

i still stand on the accord v6. i love mine.



also, the new si is a serious competitor. fbo/turbo upgrade is 400whp no problem. new si with a tune would be even/pull on my 6/6 accord. they are kinda slow stock, but if i bought one, id have ktuner on side by and flash it in the parking lot before i took it home lolol.

edit: also, most st owners that come in for service, are worse than mustang owners. nit pick everything on a car thats supposed to be cheap. -_-
The open diff isn't too much of an issue on this car unless you are really launching the shit out of it. It corners pretty flat and had relatively wide tires, so it isn't bad in corners (especially with the linear nature of the V6). BUUUUUTTTT (and it is a HUGE but) the brakes BLOW. I can't believe that this Accord V6 was over a second faster in the 1/4 mile with nearly 10MPH of extra trap speed and 350 more lbs than my 2009 Si, but it has SMALLER brakes. WTF is up with that?

Also, the Accord V6 6MT is a really fun car, but not in a tossable, Si or ST sort of way.

As for the Si, I thought the car was great, except for the turd of an engine. Compare it to the 2.0T in the Accord (the engine that SHOULD have been in the Si, and you will see what I mean). It really sucks balls when it is hot out. Won't really hit boost until around 3-3.5K, done pulling by about 5.5K and it slams into the rev limit at an oh-so-sporty 6500RPM. Doesn't make particularly good power, doesn't make particularly good torque, doesn't sound good, doesn't feel good and NEVER feels eager and energetic. Great CR-V engine, absolutely shitty Si engine.

As for 400HP, LOL. You can slap a tune on the 2.0T and be there. Honda really screwed the pooch on that one. I thought about trading for a new Accord 2.0T Sport, but I can't get the features I want. The Touring has the features, but not the color I like or the optional MT... So, I'll keep my V6 (*shucks*).

I actually like the ST and always have. Seems to have quite a bit of headroom in it, looks cool, can sound good pretty easily, handles pretty well and is reasonably useful. I also really like it in the metallic yellow color.

GTI is a nice car, but I don't think I would every NOT lease one and keep it under warranty 100% of the time.
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Old 06-19-2018, 08:45 AM   #35
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If it wasn’t for the ctr, the Si would’ve gotten the 2.0t. Honda couldn’t risk putting that engine, even in a detuned state, into a significantly cheaper car. The ctr isn’t exactly flying off showroom floors as it is. Nobody would buy one if they could just put an extra $1500 into an Si that cost $8000 less and get a rough approximation of a ctr.

How similar are the Focus ST and RS engines?
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Old 06-19-2018, 10:31 AM   #36
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The RS has a 2.3L and the ST is a 2.0. ST has a k03, and the RS has a Honeywell GT22. RS makes 350awhp/350tq.

Apparently the RS came from the factory with a faulty head gasket. Sounds like turbo AWD theme to me.
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Old 06-19-2018, 02:03 PM   #37
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I heard the RSs were having problems with poor head castings, and some owners were having them crack.
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Old 06-19-2018, 03:49 PM   #38
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If it wasnít for the ctr, the Si wouldíve gotten the 2.0t. Honda couldnít risk putting that engine, even in a detuned state, into a significantly cheaper car. The ctr isnít exactly flying off showroom floors as it is. Nobody would buy one if they could just put an extra $1500 into an Si that cost $8000 less and get a rough approximation of a ctr.

How similar are the Focus ST and RS engines?
There are some very minor similarities, but the RS is an open deck block compared the closed deck of the ST.

The pistons of the RS are also stouter with more oil passages for better cooling. The rods are also a bit thicker than the ST.

The ST's ultimate weak point comes with the pistons, and specifically the ringlands which are susceptible to disintegrating during very (read: VERY) excessive knock or LSPI (low-speed preignition i.e. high load/low RPM).

The biggest advantage that the ST has over a lot of its rivals is the advanced ECU and knock mitigation strategies. It uses a really clever strategy called OAR or Octane Adjust Ratio that uses the factory wideband (FTW!) to monitor the octane or quality of the fuel and adjusts the ignition trims to either be more aggressive or conservative depending on the knock threshold.

It's really impressive how well Ford designed the ECU. It makes tuning the car much more intuitive and gives you a lot of headroom for safety.

The ST can make 400-430whp (450-460bhp) on stock internals provided you have the fuel (and octane) which starts to run out around 360-380whp.

The Fiesta ST engine is actually the strongest unit of the 3 lol. It is equipped with a fairly mediocre turbo from the factory, but the engines are fully capable of producing 320whp with stock internals (with fuel).

I have been pleasantly surprised at how much abuse my car can take day in, day out. Too bad Ford is discontinuing the Focus ST in North America because I was almost deadset on buying a 2019/2020.
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Old 06-19-2018, 07:33 PM   #39
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Focus, too? Damn, I thought it was just the Fiesta ST they stopped here. The sales can't have been that bad, I see them everywhere. What's up?
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Old 06-19-2018, 08:05 PM   #40
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I thought they were killing off all of the sedans and replacing them with a small SUV (a lifted Focus)?
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